Eagledad 2777 Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 >>What's your point? We're just ten years short of 100, doing things very differently and scouting is very successful in this country without kicking people out because of their sexual orientation, etc. Link to post Share on other sites
Gold Winger 9 Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 "what exactly are the American values regarding homosexuals?" "Men don't like showering with men who like showering with men." However, it really isn't your concern. Is it? Link to post Share on other sites
Gold Winger 9 Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 "what exactly are the American values regarding homosexuals?" "Men don't like showering with men who like showering with men." However, it really isn't your concern. Is it? Link to post Share on other sites
dan 10 Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 what exactly are the American values regarding homosexuals? You could ask 10 Americans and get 10 different answers. Link to post Share on other sites
Slouchhat 10 Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 Eagledad wrote: "I get the feeling you don't really care about the success or failure of our program, you're just offended by Amercian values and you think yours are superior." Your program (the scouting) has nothing to do with your "American values". If your American values include discrimination against minorities or those who are not following your mainstream, then yes, I find those values offensive, not valuable and regard mine as superior. Why don't you simply admit that it is wrong to throw somebody out just because his sexual orientation is different from yours? What are you afraid of? Being accidentally touched by such a person? That you catch a gay virus by shaking his hand? GoldWinger wrote (twice): "Men don't like showering with men who like showering with men." Cool. Don't you have a better explanation of your set of values? I mean something substantial and not some movie catchphrase or something of that kind. Explain your universal set of values and let us know why not having homosexuals in BSA has a positive impact on the program. Link to post Share on other sites
Eagledad 2777 Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 >>I find those values offensive, not valuable and regard mine as superior. Link to post Share on other sites
Gold Winger 9 Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 As I said before Slouchat, it's not your concern. Link to post Share on other sites
OldGreyEagle 5 Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 I am on record as saying I don't think life would end as we know it if gays were accepted in the BSA. However, I do not want anyone, be they the Federal Court system, a special interest group, or anyone else tell me what I must do. That may be the quintessinal American Value. You can go to Castro Street in San Francisco and hear heterosexuals derisively called breeders or you could be in a small farming community in Nebraska where being "gay" is as miserable an existence as may be imagined. I am not familiar with German culture in the least. Are the thoughts and political leanings of downtown Berlin the same thoughts and political leanings of the Black Forest? Do the people of the suburbs of Bonn (and I am only thinking they have suburbs in Bonn, I could be wrong) have the same thinking, values of Stuttgart's downtown? The United States is one huge country. I have a reference that says Germany is slightly smaller than our state of Montana, and while huge, Montana is not one of our three largest states. Link to post Share on other sites
Slouchhat 10 Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 @Eagledad: nicely quoted out of context. Why don't you answer my precise questions? @GoldWinger: what if I make it my concern? But just like Eagledad, you avoide answering precise questions. Never mind, though, people. I know you can't really answer in a precise manner because all you have is an undefined gut feeling that you're uncomfortable with homosexuals. But rest assured that having some in BSA will neither turn you nor your boys into homosexuals. If some day they turn out to be homosexual, it has nothing to do with the gay scouter three districts away. I'm amazed about this level of uninformedness. Link to post Share on other sites
Slouchhat 10 Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 Hi OGE, we are just as diverse as the Americans. Often enough you see people make a decision not based on hard fact, but on gut feeling. This is what I think has happened in BSA. People are monumentally uninformed about homosexuality, its hows and whys. This leads to fear and uncertainty. Therefore they decide to kick the homosexuals out and try to keep their little applecart clean. I'm just curious to see what happens when the first boys declare their coming out despite the removal of all homosexual scouts and scouters. Are you going to admit then that this activism didn't bring the desired effect? Link to post Share on other sites
Eagledad 2777 Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 Honestly I dont know how to answer your questions. Im not one of those who needs to have the last word to feel satisfied that I got my point across. And your assumptions and questions are so off the mark that I dont have time to educate you on American culture, mainstream culture, BSA policy and so on. It would be the same as me accusing German beer makers of using backward practices in making beer because it doesnt taste Budweiser. Where would any German begin in trying to explain that? That you dont think the BSA represents the mainstream pretty much explains your ignorance about the BSA and American culture. Have a wonderful Thanksgiving. Barry Link to post Share on other sites
Gold Winger 9 Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 (This message has been edited by a staff member.) Link to post Share on other sites
packsaddle 753 Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 OGE, I was thinking the same thing about good old American ''individualism'' but you saved me the trouble. Thanks. The "breeder" comment reminded me of what Ken Hamblin often said regarding teen welfare mothers. He labeled them as "broodmares". And as I remember (I''ll try to get this right)...he said they should be fed their ovaries stir fried as their last government-subsidized free meal. Heh, heh, you won't hear THAT many places outside conservative talk-show land. My point in mentioning this is that in our country, we ARE free to speak our minds. This is closest thing to a land of a free market for ideas. And as such, I think Slouchhat is welcome to bring his ideas to the marketplace. To me this is consistent with both the American ideal as well as scout spirit. I guess I could be wrong. Edited part: I almost forgot, Hey! Nebraska isn't the armpit of the world for anyone, probably not gays either. They happen to have a great cuisine! Take a look: http://www.lasr.net/pages/city.php?City_ID=NE0204005&VA=Y&Attraction_ID=NE0204005a002 Bon Apptit!(This message has been edited by packsaddle) Link to post Share on other sites
Gold Winger 9 Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 " I know you can't really answer in a precise manner because all you have is an undefined gut feeling that you're uncomfortable with homosexuals." Not really. When I was younger I had a number of openly homosexual friends and that didn't bother me. However, as I grew older I began to look at the lifestyle choices of my homosexual friends with a critical eye. I don't care to associate with people like that and I really don't want my children to be forced to associate with people like that. Link to post Share on other sites
Slouchhat 10 Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 GW, thanks for this point of view. That's what I was looking for. Link to post Share on other sites
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