Things in our lives that may conflict with Scouting

[EagleScout316 10]

Hey all,

I've been with this Troop out in Central Illinois for about a year now as an Assistant Scoutmaster, and I really like being with them, and with Scouting in general. What this thread comes down to is, is that I don't want to do anything in my life that would be considered so risque that I might just get a call from the head office of Scouting one day where they would ask me to not be a part of the organization anymore. What it is, is that recently, three friends of mine (girls) played a joke on me by taking me to a gay bar. Just to set the record straight here, I'm in no way gay, nor will I ever be. I don't support gay marriage, nor do I support gays in Scouting. Back to the story, I ended up getting to bartend at this place, and found out that, compared to working in a straight bar where I made about $100 in tips for 4 hours of work, I made $25 in tips at the gay bar in just 10 minutes before last call. The problem that exists for me now is, I've been offered a job as a bartender there whenever they get a position available. Now, normally, I'd rather work in a straight bar, but as I'm trying to save up some money for the time when I will no longer be in college and supported by my mother, I feel that working in a gay bar (and myself being an extremely attractive exotic-looking male) is the more lucrative option. I already talked with my mom about this, and she said she was fine with it, so long as I kept my grades up, and didn't turn gay (no problem there). Of all things good and Holy, though, she said she was befuddled at how I didn't think of working at a gay bar until now (being that it actually IS more economically sound for a straight male to work at a gay bar rather than a straight bar). Now, I'm seriously thinking about this, because I don't do any behavior in this place that would make me ashamed the next day, and it's basically no different than working in a straight bar. The difference, of course, is in the type of customers that I serve. Now, although I do enjoy the idea of making money, I don't want to make so much money at the expense of my surrogate family (Scouting). If anyone knows of any exact ruling about working in bars while being an Assistant Scoutmaster, please get back to me on this.

Yours in Scouting,

-D

 

Eagle Scout 3:16

[evmori 11]

If it was me, I would decline to work there because it conflicts with what I believe. It's up to you to decide if the money is worth it or not to compromise your values. For me the answer is no.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

A blessed Christmas to all

[ronvo 10]

Ask yourself this - Do you think you have ever been served by a gay bartender or waiter in a "staight" bar/restaurant?

 

What really is the diffrence?

 

You are just serving people. Are you comforatble in this? Can you do the job professionally and serve the patrons repsectfully?

 

I hope that - based on what your posting name implies - by working there you don't become judgemental of your customers. You are there to serve them not save them.

 

Also this brings up the fact that some may judge working in or just being in a bar - any bar - as wrong - but that's another thread.

 

I say go for it. Good luck in your studies and your future.

 

YIS,

ronvo

 

[ronvo 10]

Corrections to my post!

 

It should be:

 

"straight" bar/restaurant

 

what really is the difference

 

Are you comforatble in this environment?

 

Sorry bout that!

rv

[Prairie_Scouter 10]

I agree with ronvo. It's just a job. If the opportunity presents itself, go for it. It has nothing to do with Scouting.

[DanKroh 11]

Well, actually, I agree that you should decline to work there, but for different reasons than Ed.

 

You implied in your post that one of the reasons you make so many tips in this establishment is because you are an "extremely attractive exotic-looking male". So basically, you are presenting yourself as "eye-candy" to you customers. My feeling is that this is somewhat duplicitous on your part.

 

How are you going to react the first time one of your customers flirts with you or makes a pass at you? How are you going to react the first time you are called by a homophobic slur by someone on the street who sees you leaving work?

 

I think ronvo has the gist of it. If you feel you can honestly say that you are comfortable enough with the environment and the patrons to handle the scenarios I listed above, then go for it. Scouting should not enter into it, since you are not in violation of any BSA policies (that I know of).

 

And just because no one else has said it yet, I will. I wouldn't worry about "turning gay" because you can't. You either are or you aren't. You don't absorb "gayness" by osmosis.

[SemperParatus 1]

There is no rule prohibiting your working at such an establishment.

 

I would not be so quick to base your decision on a 10-minute tip experience just before last call. Are there documented studies that gays are better tippers than straights? Have you spoken with the other bartenders as to their tips? Did your girlfriends fuel the crowd for you, as part of the joke?

 

I wouldn't do it, but then again I don't drink.

[EagleScout316 10]

I really don't have any problems working in a gay environment. People have flirted with me, and that's as far as things go. When guys tried to grab me, they figured they didn't want to try to grab me anymore. As for leaving a gay bar and being seen by someone, the only thing I worry about is if someone from Scouts sees me leaving, and ten the issue is brought up into Scouts about why I'm working at a gay bar. Working there in general doesn't compromise my values. One of my friends put it this way; I'm taking money away from gay people. Oh, and btw, you can 'turn' gay; I guess a more politically correct term would be 'choose to be'. One of my best friends is bisexual, and he agrees that he wasn't born gay, that it is a choice for him. When I took AP Psychology in high school, our professor told us that there are two types of homosexuality: orientation and behavior. People who are oriented are born homosexuals; it is in their genetic coding to be homosexual. Behavior, on the other hand, is still probable as homosexuality can be based on the environment in which you live, which helps to direct your decisions. Thus, my mother's main worry, besides grades dropping, is that, should I remain in an area that, to us as a Catholic family, is morally corrupt, I might be more susceptible to homosexual acts. As for the tipping, all I know is this: if your a female bartender in a straight bar, you are getting about 100% more tips than your male counterparts, while, if you're a male bartender in a gay bar, and statistically, there are usually more males in a gay bar than females, then you're getting a much larger tip percentage than a female bartender in a gay bar. As for my female friends, they were quite literally dancing all night. And as for being deceptive and being 'eye candy', I consider it no more deceptive than a woman who works at Hooters. And as for the other bartenders, they make about $500 in tips every Saturday, and roughly 200-300 bucks every other night.

[DanKroh 11]

Your high school AP Psychology teacher is using outdated information. And unless you take a COLLEGE level psychology course at a university where there is a religious bias (or from an instructor with a religious bias), you will never hear that again.

 

And just read what you said, "One of my best friends is bisexual, and he agrees that he wasn't born gay, that it is a choice for him."

 

OK, so he was born bisexual. Which gender he decides to enter a relationship with may be a choice, but who he is attracted to is not. He IS bisexual.

 

But this, like religion, is another issue where both sides think they are right and are not likely to convince the other.

 

And if you were a woman, would you feel comfortable working at Hooters, knowing that the only reason you were hired was because you had a well endowed chest?(This message has been edited by DanKroh)

[EagleScout316 10]

My professor wasn't using outdated information, as it's something that was taught to me over 3 years ago. Yeah, I'm a junior in college right now.

 

So, anyway, I just talked with my priest, and he agrees that I'm a college kid, and I need money, and so long as I don't enter into any act that is immoral, or do or say anything that shows I condone that type of behavior, I'm in the green. Only thing to worry about, as a Scout, is a scandal. Afterall, it is a scandalous type of place (unlike straight bars, they have a loft with couches to go and 'sit down' in).

 

Born bisexual? That's the first time I've heard bisexuality keyed in with genes. But how bout other types of environments, like prisons, where men rape other men for reasons of power, or because there are no women around. Would that not be considered homosexual behavior and not orientation? Either way, choice controls everything we do, regardless of what's in our genetic coding. I can be attracted to a guy (for example), but does that make me gay? Or does it just mean that the guy has certain feminine qualities that I happen to pick up on more (long neck, clear skin, short hair)? The way I've been raised (not basing everything on religion here, though) is that we all have a choice. When adults tell kids that they are, or are not, a certain orientation (and apparently, bisexuality is now an orientation and not a lifestyle), I am no longer surprised that more and more kids of today are saying that they are this or that at such an age that, in previous decades, kids would not have been thinking about such things.

 

Whatever. I'm tired of talking about things like this, and, as DanKroh has put it, both sides think they are right and will not conceed to any other way of throwing it. As for now, I guess I'll be going through with it. As my priest told me, I've got some pretty good morals, and if the proverbial poop hits the fan, I'll know that it would be time to quit that profession and seek work elsewhere.

 

Yours in Scouting,

-D

 

Eagle Scout 3:16

[DanKroh 11]

"But how bout other types of environments, like prisons, where men rape other men for reasons of power, or because there are no women around. Would that not be considered homosexual behavior and not orientation?"

 

Ahh, I think I understand our disconnect now. You are talking about heterosexual men who engage in violent behavior that happens to be performed on another man. That is not homosexuality, that is rape. And yes, bisexuality is an orientation.

 

Anyway, I'm not really trying to further fuel this discussion or turn it into a debate, just trying to clear up some misinformation.

 

Good luck in your new job.

 

 

[Scoutndad 10]

Sorry to chime in late when it sounds that you have made up your mind...

 

The only item about your post that I noticed is the attempt to justify your job change. I could care less about the bar environment, but why are you trying so hard to justify this?

 

It is obvious that this is weighing heavily on your mind and I can appreciate your cautious approach, but as a Junior in college and in the working world, why are you consulting a priest, your mom and a scouting forum over a bartending job???

 

Wait until you graduate and get the "real" job to consult with your team...I'm sure we will be here waiting...

 

BTW, not sure of your college major or life aspirations, but have you had any consideration on how this will appear on your resume (kinda like the business grad who lists Hooters on her resume-doesn't take away from her intellect but does speak for her life choices-good or bad)?

 

Not being critical...it sounds as if you have your head on straight...best of luck in whatever you do.

[Rooster7 11]

EagleScout316,

 

Is that 316 for John 3:16?

 

I dont know anything about you. If I was forced to characterize your post, two possibilities present themselves to me

 

1) Youre a thoughtful young man, who believes in the values taught to him by his church and his family.

 

2) This is a big charade and youre simply looking to stir the pot and have a little fun.

 

Im going to stick my neck out just a little and assume the former vice the latter. So, given that your faith is important to you, and assuming that youre a Christian, I respectfully suggest that you read the Bible, mediate, and pray to God about it.

 

Despite the assurances offered to you by a priest, I cannot help believe that you are entering a world in which you do not belong, nor should embrace (even if just for employment).

 

And while DanKroh and I are perhaps polar opposites in regard to spiritual matters, I agree that you should not be there as eye candy. Even if you have no intention of being persuaded by anybody to engage in anything but bartending, you know that there will be plenty of men there who will think otherwise. Even from a worldly viewpoint, its not wise to put yourself in that position. As a believer, Im convinced that God calls us to reach out to others, which might put us in places and amongst people wed rather not be near. But if your only goal is to make money, Im convinced this is not where God wants you to be.

 

Ephesians 5:2-4 (New International Version)

 

live a life of love, just as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.

 

3But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God's holy people. 4Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving.

 

[Torveaux 10]

I agree that you should not work there but for a slightly different reason.

 

Perceptions are reality. Whether you agree with the moral judgments of others or not, if the families of the boys you work with learn about your employment, it will cast doubt upon you and give them cause to fear for their boys' safety. Rational or not, parents will not be happy to learn of such things and some, if not most, will want you gone from the Troop.

 

I guess I figure that if you would not be proud doing your job in your uniform (dirt and mess notwithstanding) the job may not be the best option.

 

If we all took jobs merely based upon the highest bidder, doesn't that make us financial sluts?

[nldscout 18]

well I don't know about the rest of the people here but I can tell a one when I see one. Seems your trying to hide it and not admit what you are.

 

I would tell you that if you was in our troop and you worked there you wouldn't be in our troop anymore