public schools as chartering partners

[evmori]

"When you have a school running a "no atheists" youth group, that violates the establishment clause."

 

What about public schools who have bible study groups along side of gay rights groups & Wiccans?

 

Wiccans, atheists, Jews, Christians, crystal worshipers, etc. - I have no problem with them meeting at my daughters school - as long as my daughter has the freedom of choice to join which group she wants as long as she meets their membership requirements.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

 

[slontwovvy]

Mr. LeRoy--

 

I would so enjoy to have you respond to my previous post. Please tell me where the ACLU was when it should have been doing this. The post is copied below for your convenience.

 

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Still, I think the ACLU has more important things to do with its time. In my area, a public school invited a group of Tibetian monks to talk about Buddhism at a school assembly. I didn't hear so much as a peep from the ACLU.

 

Our public university distributes funds that the students are required to pay to groups that students do not believe in, such as homosexual activist groups and atheist groups. Several students went to court to stop this; where was the ACLU then?

 

"Any time the minority has MORE rights than the majority, something's wrong."

 

You seem to fail to realize that discrimination (according to the liberal's definition) is a necessary part of our society. Say two people went for a government job. One was black, the other white. The white person was vastly more qualified. If he was hired, the ACLU would likely charge discrimination because of the lack of respect for "diversity."

 

If the black person got the job, which truly would be discrimination (though it would probably occur under affirmative action) the ACLU would likely not say a peep.

 

America has become so burdened under fear of political correctness and the ACLU that it has lost its good sense.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

...

"What about public schools who have bible study groups along side of gay rights groups & Wiccans?"

 

Those aren't being RUN BY THE SCHOOL.

 

I'm talking about a youth group RUN BY THE SCHOOL ITSELF.

 

If the SCHOOL is the chartering partner, they are responsible for approving the pack/troop leadership; the BSA expects the chartering partner to exclude atheists, and a public school can't discriminate on the basis of religion.

 

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

...

"I would so enjoy to have you respond to my previous post. Please tell me where the ACLU was when it should have been doing this. The post is copied below for your convenience.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Still, I think the ACLU has more important things to do with its time. In my area, a public school invited a group of Tibetian monks to talk about Buddhism at a school assembly. I didn't hear so much as a peep from the ACLU.

 

Our public university distributes funds that the students are required to pay to groups that students do not believe in, such as homosexual activist groups and atheist groups. Several students went to court to stop this; where was the ACLU then?"

 

What did the ACLU say when you talked to them about this? They aren't omniscient; they need to be informed by people of possible rights violations. I assume that you, being concerned with possible civil rights violations, informed them immediately, right?

 

That's the best way to determine the ACLU's position on an issue, you know.

 

[evmori]

Run by or allowed to meet in the school - same thing. In most public schools, both must be approved by some form of school administration. If the approval is given, then the school is responsible for the group. By allowing a group to meet in a school building doesn't mean they endorse the group's beliefs. By chartering a Scout Pack/Troop doesn't mean they endorse their beliefs!

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

[sctmom]

I think Chartering does mean you endorse the beliefs of the organization. Unfortunately, most Chartering Organizations are on paper only. I think everyone would benefit if CO's would be actively involved. The troops and packs should be pushing for that involvement.

 

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

 

...

"Run by or allowed to meet in the school - same thing"

 

No, entirely different. A public school can't run a group that excludes Jews, but if it has facilities open to the public, they must allow all groups access on the same basis - including groups that exclude Jews.

 

It's similar to the difference between a school-sponsored prayer (which is forbidden), and individual students praying if they want to (which must be allowed, even if the school principal thinks it's the "wrong" religion).

[Eman]

Merlyn,

Isn't the U.S.Congress the charter organization for the BSA on a national level? And isn't the current president the national charter organization rep. or the national exec. of BSA

[Eman]

Merlyn,

You never commented on my last post. I was wondering what your thoughts were on this.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

 

...

"You never commented on my last post. I was wondering what your thoughts were on this."

 

OK...

 

...

"Isn't the U.S.Congress the charter organization for the BSA on a national level?"

 

Here you're equivocating on the word "charter"; the US charter does not mean the same thing as a BSA "charter partner". If it did, the US would own all the BSA's assets and choose its leaders, since a BSA charter partner owns all the assets of a troop/pack and chooses its leaders.

 

...

"And isn't the current president the national charter organization rep. or the national exec. of BSA"

 

The president can be a member of the KKK if he wants to be; members of congress have been.

[slontwovvy]

I would like to point out this and then I shall leave this thread.

Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution. The famous "necessary and proper" clause. In the past has been used to defend things that were in the gray area constitutionally. Maybe the government thinks that extra support of the Boy Scouts is proper. That would destroy all Constitutional issues related to it.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Religious discrimination and first amendment issues aren't a "gray area"; if the government wants to support a youth program, there are plenty of nondiscriminatory ones to support instead, like 4-H, which is part of the Dept. of Agriculture.

[cjmiam]

So that's why 4-H was such a drag!

 

And I still would rather be camping!

 

 

[MomScouter]

Hey let's not slam 4-H! My daughter has learned an incredible amount on animal care from this organization and its volunteers. She also has a wonderful time every year showing her animals at the fair, and has learned a lot about responsibility.

[cjmiam]

Sorry, I should have qualified my statement. Please allow me to rephrase. Given my experiences as a participant in each organization, in my town Scouting was more exciting and I conclude that the reason for this is because the government sponsors 4-H. However, other clubs in other towns may not be as bad as my town was. And in no way should this statement discourage you or you kids from trying 4-H, because they might actually have fun and learn something.