How does the belt loop program work for your pack?

[Scouter Dad 10]

Hi Everyone,

I'm a second year leader and a parent of a wolf scout. Last year I learned that our pack tend to do things a little different than what's outlined in the scouting program. The pack is very strong but sometimes for a newbie leader it's hard to figure out how the program works.

 

We have never had a belt loop and pin program and I'm looking into the possibility of starting one. I'm not sure about the costs and how well it goes over as I have never witnessed it before.

 

I'd be interested to know how your pack does it and how the belt loops are paid for. I have many naysayers shoot down the idea right off the bat because it's never been done before. Some feel it's unfair for the bears and Webelos who have been around for the last 3-5 years and that such a program would diminish the credibility of the work the Webelos did toward their activity pins. Others tell me it's unfair to tell parents to go out and buy a belt and that it's just another piece of the uniform the parents have to remember.

 

How does it work for you?

[Lisabob 13]

First of all, I would strongly encourage people to take the word "unfair" out of their vocabulary. This is a kids program. Let the kids enjoy it for what it is! When parents start flinging charges of "unfair!" around, things quickly go downhill.

 

Second, the belt loops were a huge hit in all the packs I've seen and been part of. The boys absolutely love them. The pins get less attention but they're nice in that they allow a boy who is excited about a topic to explore in further depth. While most of our guys would have 10-15 loops, they might only have 1-3 pins.

 

Third, Tigers through second year webelos may earn them (in a few cases they are actually part of the webelos activity pin requirements). With a couple of exceptions (shooting sports - make sure you check rules on these loops) they do not need to be earned at pack/den/scouting events. There is no reason why your bears and webelos should feel "cheated" or left out. However, I found that Tigers-Wolves-Bears were more interested in the loops than Webelos.

 

The Webelos activity pins are more in-depth than the loops/pins. Your Webelos also should be doing a variety of other activities that start to distinguish them from your younger scouts in the pack. The loops are not a threat to your Webelos program, unless you have a very lousy Webelos program to begin with. And in that case, maybe the loops/pins could actually enhance the program for your webelos.

 

Benefits to the loops: they're relatively easy, they encourage boys to try new activities, they can be used to get families to do things together, the kids (esp younger ones) are very proud of them.

 

Disadvantages to the loops: they're expensive!, parents sometimes end up competing for who can "get" the most loops, the fastest, they're easy to earn (and sometimes some over-zealous parents will tell you their kid earned 20 of them in the last month - ugh).

 

If your pack decides to start promoting the loops/pins, then you need a clear plan for what the pack will or won't pay for (how many/month, duplicates, etc) so that they don't overwhelm your advancement budget. In turn, that might put the damper on some over competitive parents misusing the program.

 

 

[Mom2Scouts06 10]

In our pack the policy is any belt loop earned at a Scouting event (Day Camp, Pack or Den Meetings, Camp out, Council events etc) are paid for by the Pack.

 

Any loop earned outside of scouting events are paid for by the parents.

 

We have a copy of the req for all belt loops on hand and will gladly make a copy for any parent who ask! Belt loops are good for the boys and it gives them something to earn during those months when they are working on rank. They love getting awards at pack meetings so this opens them up to being able to get at least one thing at every pack meeting if they so choose.

 

Yes you do get the over zealous parent once in a while which is why we instituted the parents pay for any belt loop earned outside of Scouting. That cut down on that alot!

[perdidochas 658]

We do the belt loops and pins. Not sure why the Webelos would object, since they are required to earn belt loops (or at least do the requirements for the belt loops) for at least one required activity pin (Citizenship).

 

The kids love the belt loops. It's instant recognition, and they look cool. The only objection I would bring up is cost. They are $1.79 each, and that adds up.

[ScoutLass 10]

The way we do it is each den votes in September and again in January on which belt loop they want to earn. Then that den works toward the loop. The pack pays for these two loops. Any loop earned at home, the parents or scout pays for. Our pack doesn't charge dues, so we have to have some limits in place. The boys can also decide to work toward a pin on an already earned loop instead, if they want. Our CO requests we don't accept dues, because we have quite a few families from low-income homes that otherwise wouldn't participate. Boys are expected to participate in fundraisers instead, which works well.

 

Dens work together on the loops, when possible. For example, my wolves already have the marble loop, which the bears are working on right now. So the wolves are helping teach the game to the bears then having a tournament with them in a couple weeks. I've never seen boys so proud of their accomplishment as when they teach older scouts something they know.

 

Since parents are worried about unfair (probably more so than the boys are) you could propose that tigers and wolves choose two loops to work on in the den, and the current bears and webelos can choose 3 or 4 for the first year it's introduced. I personally think unfair always makes a silly argument, though. I just really like the belt loop program for extending the kid's interests and I'd meet naysayers halfway just to get the loops active in my pack.

 

Starting next spring, we are also going to host a belt-loop recruitment event. We plan to host a loop "workshop" followed by some games and a BBQ for our cubs, families, and boys and families interested in scouting. If a new boy signs up at the event, he gets awarded with the loop right then and there. If he chooses not to, he gets awarded with a participation certificate. If he then decides to join the pack in the fall, he can trade in his certificate for a belt loop at the first pack meeting in September.

[AKdenldr 33]

Lots of good thoughts here. We suppliment the regular advancement program with the belt loops and pins. For example, now is a great time to work in a belt loop or pin, as awards for Bear, wolf are a long way off.

 

Summer is a great time for parents to work in some pins and belt loops in accademic subjects. That, however, depends on home support and parental motivation.

 

As the boys move older in age (Webelos and later in the Bear year), I encourage the pins.

 

This is the first year we have had fundraising, so parents paid for these things in the boys "activity fees".

 

Merit badge dot org has a document that lists the crossing of requirements between the advancement program and electives and the beltloop program. I've found this helpfull.

[Austinole 43]

I incorporate beltloops with the activities we are doing. There is so much that overlaps and the kids really like getting them. Last year I did a beltloop roundup where kids could go from station to station and earn up to 4 belt loops. I'll probably do that again at least once this year. Our pack pays for all awards earned.

[Gary_Miller 10]

Since when did units limit the amount of award a youth could earn and when they could earn them. Cub Scouts is just not about earning awards at meetings its about working and earning awards at home also. Any unit that limits what a boy can do is only slowing the boys down in the program. If cost is the problem then the unit needs to raise the dues or increase their fund raising money. No boy should be turned down on an award limited on what they can do in the program due to money. And no family should be expected to pay for any awards past what they are required to pay in yearly dues or earn at fund raisers.

 

And any unit that don't allow sport and academic pins and belt loops are not providing the youth in the program the whole Cub Scout program.

[perdidochas 658]

I'm with Gary. The only limitations we have on beltloops, is that when Webelos re-earn belt loops (as per Activity badge requirements), we don't award a second physical belt loop. Now, if they earn a new beltloop (per activity badge requirement) we do award those.

 

Some kids, including my own, have a belt full of beltloops.

[Scoutfish 16]

We pay for all beltloops earned during a scout activity. Wether at a den meeting, pack function, fun day, field trip or even at camps.

 

We pay for the first 2 beltloops per month for activities done outside the pack. After that, mom and dad pay or the scout can use his pass account.

 

 

Now, there is a big difference between a beltloop. pin and the activity badge that Webelos earn as part of Webelos advancement.

 

A belt loop has only 3 requirements. Basic stuff that requires participation of some type, but not much more.

 

Pins usually have about 10 requiremenst and involve a scout doing or presenting something( report, poster, displays, etc...) in front of the den, pack or family.

 

Activity badges are something else entirely.

 

 

Go with the beltloop program. There is no cost except the beltloops themselves.

 

The biggest benefit to the scouts is that by actively pursueing beltloops, they are exposing themselves to a particular activity that they might not have tried otherwise.

 

Matter of fact, just by participating in many scout activities, they probably have already earned a few beltloops by action...even though your pack doesn't actively participate.

[Basementdweller 608]

If you have never had the program before, I will tell you the first year is very expensive, our first year we averaged about $30 per scout on belt loops. Multiply that by 40 boys. $1200 wow.

 

We buy the belt loops,

We award them only once

We limit it to 5 per pack meeting.

We have some parents abuse the system and say their sons earned them all in a few weeks. We council them

 

Webelos and Bears can earn belt loops so I don't know what the big deal is.

 

[ScoutLass 10]

Gary, while I agree with you in theory, in action money is a limiting factor. If the choice for a pack is to award unlimited belt loops or to spend the money on field trips and activities for the boys, I vote for the activities hands down. If we began requesting dues, we would lose a lot of boys. It has been attempted in the past, and parents pull them out rather than admit they can't afford it. (Pride can be a strange thing). The CO now requests we don't do dues. It's just a request, but it makes sense for our group. The families that are better off financially already fund a lot silently, so asking for more there would be unfair. We do two fundraisers a year (popcorn + a pack fundraiser), but getting clearance is always like pulling teeth. Last year it took the council almost four months to approve our fundraiser.

 

I know it sounds like excuses, but we do our best to give the boys every last bit of the program available, but realism has to take over sometimes. Not every pack is the same or has the same resources available. In the end you have to do what is best for your pack while delivering the best program possible.

[IM_Kathy 32]

while my son was a cubbie the pack we were with did not purchase any of the belt loops. They could do them, and den leaders could present them to their scouts - but they were paid for either by den dues (if the den chose to do it that way) or paid for by their parents. All the parents in our den decided to not purchase the belt loops due to the cost and ease of earning. As webelos the boys did do work where they would've gotten belt loops - that work just went toward their webelos activity pin.

 

after my son became a boy scout he went back and worked as a den chief and the pack had a new CM... they got the belt loop's up and going and he saw boys earning all sorts of loops - he even helped them earn one, and after that he said those were way too easy to earn. I'm friends with a DL that was with the pack back when my son was a cub and there now and says the pack is now running low on funds and is uping registration fews just to cover the cost of belt loops. After enough complaints about the raise in cost the pack changed it so the registrion is X if you do not want your son to recieve belt loops and X+ if you do - which basically returned it back to where it was before except the loops are awarded at pack meetings rather than den meetings and so boys are in away singled out if they don't get belt loops. Needless to say my friend can't wait until this winter when her youngest gets his AOL and crosses over.

[Gary_Miller 10]

ScoutLass,"Gary, while I agree with you in theory, in action money is a limiting factor. If the choice for a pack is to award unlimited belt loops or to spend the money on field trips and activities for the boys, I vote for the activities hands down."

 

Money is always a limiting factor. However, I disagree with where the money should go.

 

I believe that the exposer that a boy gets in the Sports and Academic program to different activities is more valuable to a boy than a field trip to the zoo, or pumpkin patch, or farm, or pack sponsored family campout. These are all things a boy can do with their parents. With the excepting of one Yearly sponsored Council or district day camp and webelos camping for advancement, there is no need or Cub Scouts to go camping.

 

However, I don't believe in working on Sports and Academic program as a Den or a pack, as they are designed to be individual in nature. Much like merit badges for Boy Scouts. So the cost balances out as some boys with work hard on the program where others may do nothing.

 

The average cost for a boy per year for awards is approx $20. This is a boy advancing one rank, 4 belt loops and 4 pins.(This message has been edited by Gary_Miller)

[ScoutNut 147]

The Academic and Sports program is NOT "designed to be individual in nature". It can be, but that is NOT the ONLY way. It can also be done as a group.

 

Per BSA - Having a Pack charge for participation to cover the cost of the program is completely OK.

 

 

From the 2007 version of the Cub Scout Academic & Sports Guide -

 

"Participation may take place at home, with the family, or within a den, a pack, or the community."

 

"Each Tiger Cub, Cub Scout, and Webelos Scout will be presented with the appropriate recognition item for completing the requirements, whether he does so as an individual Scout, with his family, with his den or pack, or in his school or community."

 

"One member of the pack committee should be responsible for coordinating the Academics and Sports program and overseeing the integration of the Academics and Sports activities into the pack program."

 

"Pack leaders should encourage involvement by dens and families and make sure they have opportunities to participate."

 

"The pack leadership can begin incorporating the Academics and Sports activities into the pack program during the annual pack planning meeting."

 

"The pack leaders should also define how costs of the program are budgeted, how requirements will be verified, when and how recognition takes place, and what constitutes a den or pack tournament."

 

"Packs are encouraged to include the cost of these recognition items in their annual budgets. Packs may consider charging a fee to each participating Cub Scout and adult partner to cover the cost of the awards."

 

"Packs should have a clear policy in place to determine whether the pack or the boys family will be responsible for the cost of awards that are earned more than once."

 

 

 

For Pack22LeaderDad, consider the following -

 

"The program supplements the existing advancement and recognition program for Tiger Cubs, Cub Scouts, and Webelos Scouts; it does not replace it. The program is one element of Cub Scouting, as are den and pack meetings, day camp, and other activities."

 

"The primary focus of the program is on scholarship and sportsmanship."

 

"Remember: The object of the program is to help boys learn a new skill or improve those they already possessnot simply to provide an opportunity for boys to earn additional recognition."

 

Parents are not forced to purchase a Cub Scout belt. The Pack awards the boys the belt loops and pins they have earned. If the boy wants to simply keep them in a box in a drawer that is up to him.

 

Tell me, which is more "unfair" - to give your Cubs the opportunities to learn new things, and to possibly discover a new lifelong interest - or to deny them those opportunities simply because a Pack's adults basically don't feel like doing it?

 

I would recommend getting a copy of the current Cub Scout Academics and Sports Guide, and telling the other Pack adults that the only "credibility" being diminished is theirs, and the only thing "unfair" is their attitude.

 

BTW - my Pack pays for all loops and pins earned by the boys. However, if our fundraising profits ever tanked, we would have to rethink that position.

(This message has been edited by Scoutnut)