Just Curious

[Mom2Scouts06]

On how you handle parents who so obviously do everything for their Scout. All the Webelos homework that has been given this year you can tell has not been done by the Scout but by his parent.

 

Is it our place to say Hey we know Little Johnny did not do that homework. I mean these are second year Webelos and the homework is not Rocket Science. When we give an assignment like a family tree we don't expect perfection just a good effort. We feel that this kid is going to have issues with two Helicopter parents in Troop.

 

Just curious on everyones thoughts.

[dg98adams]

IMHO Webelos shouldn't be doing "homework". That's what school is for.

 

Webelos should be doing stuff in the den, but if you send homework home, that's where "Akela" (at least for tiger to bear was).

 

The AWDL/WDL needed to start focusing on Webelos-centric activities with other Webelos and the Webelos Den Leader at the beginning of the Webelos I program not at the end of the Webelos II program.

 

Does the AWDL/WDL understand the transition program?(This message has been edited by dg98adams)

[ScoutNut]

As I am sure you know, in the Webelos program parents are only able to sign off on requirements if the Webelos den leader allows it. If the den leader has allowed a parent to approve his son's work, than the den leader must accept the signatures. If not it is the den leaders responsibility to approve, or not.

 

"Homework" is a VERY negative thing for middle schoolers. Webelos should not be having "homework". Webelos should have minimal stuff to be done at home as most of their requirements are done with the den.

 

If the Webelos has missed a meeting, or there is something that the den leader has instructed him to do on his own (work done independently - NOT homework), the Webelos should bring in all of his completed work to be shown to, and discussed with, his den leader. At that time the den leader either approves the work, or lets the Webelos know what has to be corrected/finished.

 

While the Webelos is still a Cub Scout, and the Cub Scout criteria of "Do Your Best" still holds, the final call as to weather the Webelos has done his best is now the den leaders, not the parents.

 

If the parent is doing the work for their Webelos, then the den leader should not approve the parent to sign off on requirements.

[Mom2Scouts06]

Well first let me correct the use of the word "homework". They do not have weekly work to complete for den meetings. Some requirements have to be completed at home like family trees, family member requirements, etc. There are so things that can not be accomplised in the den.

In our den parents do not sign off on achievements the DL/ADL do that. How do you not approve a project that has been done by the parent (which is obvious because it has mommys handwriting all over it, and is perfectly neat lol)?

 

I do find it sort of entertaining that first I get told in an earlier post to have the Webelos become more independent in doing requirements to better prepare them for the Boy Scout system of Self Motivation to now being told we should be completing requirements in den meetings! Good thing our program is running very well with well trained leadership or we could be all confused following advice on this board lol!

[ScoutNut]

I do not see the confusion. The Webelos program weans the boys away from total reliance on their parents, and onto a situation where they are introduced to the Boy Scout method of "Adult Association", by use of Activity Badge Counselors, and being responsible for their own work.

 

From the "Cub Scout Leader Book" - Chapter 21 - The Webelos Scout Program -

 

"Webelos Scouts work on activity badge requirements during their weekly den meetings. When they have completed the activity badge requirements, the Webelos den leader or activity badge counselor, rather than a parent, approves most of the activity badges."

 

"One activity badge is covered each month during den meetings. Some of the more challenging badges, such as Craftsman and Engineer, are featured for two months."

 

"A well-planned den meeting program will ensure that most of the boys will qualify for the activity badge by the end of the month."

 

"Boys bring to den meetings completed or partially completed projects done at home to show others, as well as to be approved by the Webelos den leader. This sharing encourages a boy to do his best and helps to build his confidence and self-esteem."

 

"Boys turn essays, notebooks, drawings, and other written work in to the Webelos den leader for approval. If a boy is supposed to tell something for a requirement, he should do that at a den meeting."

 

"Any boy may earn any activity badge during any month; however, having all den members working on the same badge at the same time is recommended because that way, more resources and qualified help are available."

 

"The key factor to Webelos transition is the ongoing working relationship of the leaders of a Cub Scout pack and a Boy Scout troop."

 

"The Webelos-to-Scout transition should be seamless. Graduating Webelos Scouts into Boy Scouting is a cooperative effort between the pack and troop. It gives Webelos Scouts and their families an awareness of the troop program, troop leadership, and advancement and an appreciation for troop organization and relationships."

 

I think the above quotes from BSA makes it fairly clear how the Webelos program works.

 

In your Family Tree scenario, it is possible that the mom might have helped put together the presentation, however, that does not necessarily mean her Webelos did none of the work, and learned nothing in the process. The mom might simply have been concerned that it was legible to the den leader.

 

If the Webelos den leader thinks that the Webelos had no hand in the work shown him by the Scout, then the best thing to do is to talk to the boy, and ask him about his work.

 

[DeanRx]

If the Cub is a WEb I or Web II, and the parent has signed off on the achievement and the DL has approved it and you are NOT the DL - there is very little you can do about it.

 

If you ARE the DL, then you need to step up and have a private conversation with the Huey-parents about the intent or scouting and the expectation of the scout "Doing his Best".

 

if you have a Web who has this going on AND the parent IS the DL - again, very little you can do about it, other than have a talk and hope they see the light.

 

BSA guidelines expressly prohibit the testing, CM conference, or BOR for scouts in the cubbie program. How other than these tools are you going to confirm that the scout didn't in fact do all the achievements, just with "help" from the Akela?

 

Its a tough spot and I wish it didn't happen, but if you are the CM, ACM, or another committee member (or parent of another Web in the Den) there is very little you can DO about it.

[Lisabob]

Oy vey, we had a couple of parents like that in our den. They about drove us nuts. We just consistently told the boys that THEY (not their parents) had to bring in the projects and explain/discuss/present them, in keeping with whatever the particular requirements were. On a couple of occasions we had brothers who could not explain the projects that "they" had completed! This wasn't stage fright or anything, just that they had absolutely no idea what the project was about. It was so obvious that they had not done it. So we asked them to go home, take another look, and tell us more about it the following time. That was about the best we could do.

 

Talking with the parents helps minimally in cases like this and can cause a lot of stress. Parents who do this stuff just don't understand why they ought not to do it. So go ahead and have that quiet conversation with them, but to be honest, I think you'll get further with the boys, than with their parents.

 

 

[scoutldr]

I have a co-worker who is a perfectionist. She has her college son e-mail drafts of his papers to her, which she diligently corrects and rewrites and e-mails back to him. Same son is an Eagle, dad was SM, mom was CC, and I have to wonder how much of it he actually did. (of course, as soon as he had his ECOH, they all dropped Scouting like a hot potato)

 

In my day, we called that "cheating". But we are surrounded by people who just don't see anything wrong with it, and the epidemic is growing.

[Nike]

One way to get around this for things like a family tree is for the boys to bring all the information they need to a den meeting and make the project there.

[Mom2Scouts06]

Good idea Nike...we have done that with a few projects like Letter writing to a friend or relatives.

 

Scoutldr that is what I dread seeing happen with this Scout. I know his Mom does all his school projects and homework for him also because my son was in class with her son once and she was constantly calling saying SHE didn't understand the homework! I would just tell her that we expected our son to take responsibility for his homework and we would only give help when needed which was not very often. I would hate for him to get Eagle "cheating". I just feel like if they are like this now what are they going to be like as adults? Just setting them up for trouble down the road, IMO.

 

LisaBob, I think the Scout gets it and wants to do it on his own but he is not given the opportunity. He seems embarrassed when before presenting a project when his Mom is like make sure you say this or do it this way....just sad!

[evmori]

There is no such thing as Webelos I or Webelos II. They are Webelos.

 

Can ya here that? Sounds like a helicopter!

[Mom2Scouts06]

evmori...It is fairly common to distinguish Webelos into I and II based on year and grade...especially in packs with large numbers of Webelos.

 

 

 

 

[Eagle92]

Just a few thoughts, then off to lunch.

 

1) I would have a talk with the parents about the Webelos program, emphasizing advancement and the need for parents to learn how to let go. This is especially important on the Boy Scout level. Challenge I've encountered at this point is finding the time during the meeting to talk to the parents without the cubs interrupting or needign attenttion. Then again I'm with TCs at the moment.

 

2) if parents do sign off, do not accept signature as it hasn't been authorized. HOPEFULLY if the parent is the WDL, then they are follwoing procedures.

 

3) If it continues, talkt ot he parent 1 on 1.

[Mom2Scouts06]

Thanks Eagle92...Thankfully the parent is not the WDL! Good ideas!

[evmori]

Mom2Scouts06,

 

Makes no difference. Webelos is a two year program but it isn't divided into two separate parts.

 

Unless the parent(s) are the WDL's, their signature means nothing.