Troop doing its own new scout program at summer camp

[gwd-scouter]

New Scouts in our area are encouraged to take the Pathfinder Program at our Council's summer camp. This program is designed to expose the new Scouts to the advancement requirements for Tenderfoot through 1st Class. I say "expose" because the requirements, while covered and talked about, are not signed off at camp. That is up to the Troop when it gets back home to assess whether the Scout actually did any of those requirements. While it is a good program and some of our guys over the years have learned a lot, I have noticed that most of our Scouts don't retain anything from the week.

 

Also, a lot of our guys in the past have said they miss having the chance to work on merit badges - doing the Pathfinder Program does not allow time for merit badge work.

 

So, ASMs and I have been talking about doing our own version of the Pathfinder Program just within our Troop while at camp. Scouts could do merit badges in the morning (or afternoon) if they want to, then meet in our campsite for an hour or two every day to work on basic Scout skills toward 1st class.

 

We've been very fortunate this past year in that our PLC has made plans that encompass working on Scout skills so most of our boys are close to finishing the first class requirements within a year anyway.

 

Have any of you done this in your own Troop? If so, do you have any advice, suggestions, outlines, plans for what you did?

 

 

[eagle90]

Very appropriate post, GWD. Our Committee just decided to do the same thing this year at camp. In spite of our camp's outstanding program, they were very weak in the new scout program last year, and we feel we can do a better job ourselves. I too will be intereted in some advice, schedules, program, etc.

 

Dale

[Stosh]

We find that unless the boy specifically wishes to attend the NB activities at camp, we don't encourage it. The boys previously would attend these sessions at camp and then come back and not have anything "checked off". No records means we end up doing it all over again anyway. (That's a nice way of saying, the boys basically wasted their advancement time at camp.) Instead we have the boys take First Aid and Swimning MB at camp and by accomplishing those we feel they have fulfilled their T2FC requirements in those areas. They end up with something when they're done and appropriate records are transferred.

 

We also find that we need to prepare these boys for summer camp and to wait until camp time, we're behind the 8-ball. Toten Chit, packing, camping out, etc. all are necessary and must be under their belts before they go off to camp. To wait until Thursday afternoon to get the Toten Chit traning at camp leaves this boy for 3 1/2 days of playing with his knife at camp before he gets the training. That dynamic doesn't bode well with our troop.

 

None of these NB's that go ever come back with a clear understanding of what they were supposed to be doing and whether or not they actually did it or just saw it demonstrated. I guess we feel we need a better grasp of the situation and we don't think it's worth an ASM's time to go and observe. Instead, the interaction between NB's and older scouts far suits our troop needs than just picking up advancment at summer camp.

 

Stosh

[jr56]

Agreed, I think it is much better to have a strong troop program, teaching many of the T-1st class skills before camp starts, and then doing whatever "leftovers" the boys need while at camp.

I like the idea of First Aid and Swimming merit badges as well.

[LongHaul]

We call our first year program Adventure Patrol. The boys come back with a list of all the requirements for T to 1st Class and have the ones they passed checked off. It's up to the troop to either accept this or retest. Along with advancement the Adventure Patrol does a complete "tour" of our reservation's opportunities. They find out about all the different things available to them over the next years. As returning campers they can make more informed choices as to what they want to do. As for actual skill aquisition you can't beat a 1 to 1 experienced scout teaching a new scout. I don't know of any summer program that can offer that ratio except on the troop level. Summmer Camp should be fun first.

LongHaul(This message has been edited by LongHaul)

[OldGreyEagle]

GWD, you will have the advantage of a "plant" this year. Your son the Summer Camp employee, maybe he can give you the scoop on how the First Year Program is working. WOuldnt it be funny if he is assigned to the First Year Program and your Troop blows it off? Just something to consider

[Beavah]

The boys previously would attend these sessions at camp and then come back and not have anything "checked off".

 

Yah, this is supposed to be a feature . In the National Camp School documents camps aren't supposed to sign off on T-2-1 requirements, because that's the province of the troop and the SM. New Scout programs are just supposed to be a resource to assist, not an activity to supplant each troop's "in-house" instruction and signoffs for rank requirements. I think that's the right way to look at it, but it's not communicated well.

 

GWD, so much depends on the camp, eh? I think, though, that if your troop has the guys to do new scout stuff in-house, that's a much better way to go. So much about new boys is getting to know them, and more importantly them gettin' to know the troop, and getting comfortable in it. Workin' together with the troop's adults and older boys seems like too big a part of that to turf it to the camp staff. It's special fun helpin' 'em whack their first tree to pieces, start their first campfire and all that. Don't give it up!

 

[Lisabob]

A couple of other questions based on watching mediocre new scout programs at two camps.

 

1) How big is their program? Would your couple of boys be lost in a sea of other new scouts? What's the ratio of leaders/staff to new scouts in the program?

 

2) If they're doing MBs or some other program feature instead: are these new scouts going to thrive on that, or is being thrown into the mix with a bunch of older, better prepared scouts likely to intimidate them? (this is more about the personalities and maturity level of the new guys)

 

I think one of the allures of the new scout program is that it is relatively "safe" for these younger guys, many of whom are away at camp for the first time in their lives. But not all boys need/want that protection, and not all programs do a very good job of even that, let alone of teaching skill.

[gwd-scouter]

Our camp's pathfinder program usually has a ratio of 8-10 new scouts with two camp staffers as their guides. New scouts from many different troops are put together to make up the patrols. Scouts from the same troop do not necessarily remain together.

 

I have talked with the parents of the new guys about merit badges and mentioned that many of those offered at camp would not be very much fun for these boys. They are better suited to an older Scout. Some are only offered to older/higher ranked Scouts. But, our camp does offer many merit badges that are suitable to all ages and interests: woodcarving, basketry, music and bugling, art and sculpture, leatherwork, indian lore, nature, and others.

 

I fully understand that the boys don't get signed off on requirements for doing the new scout program at camps and I agree with it. It is certainly the responsibility of the home troop to ensure the boys understand and can put into practice those things they learn toward 1st class. I did not know that until a couple of years ago.

 

In the past, our troop would get the requirements sheets that came home from camp for those boys in the Pathfinder Program. Advancement Chair (me at the time I'm embarrassed now to admit) would take those requirement sheets, update troopmaster for everything listed that the boys had covered during the week, and then SM would sign off their handbooks. In fact, new boys and parents were told that going to summer camp was the best way to advance through 1st class.

 

Ah, thank goodness we've been moving away from that method.

[Stosh]

Ok, now I'm confused.

 

Camp staff can sign off on merit badges, but they can't for T2FC?

 

Ok, then why have a T2FC program at camp if it's only an orientation program and not for real?

 

As far as MB at camp for the new boys, they get swimming and first aid which gives them indepth study of the T2FC requirements and then they are encouraged to take a "fun" MB. If they take pioneering or orientation those apply to T2FC as well.

 

I guess I find it difficult to explain to the boys that attend the NB program at camp why at the COH after summer camp all the older boys get MB's and they get to redo all their advancement requirements they just did at camp.

 

Unless someone can answer my boys to their satisfaction, I guess we'll just go with the MB program at camp for all the boys.

 

Stosh

[gwd-scouter]

jblake: yes that is the way it is done at our camp: MBs get signed off, T2FC don't - your may differ. It actually never occurred to me until your post about how odd that COH after summer camp is. A bunch of older guys getting a handful of merit badges while first year Scouts get little to nothing.

[OldGreyEagle]

I know every camp is different, so that may be the biggest reason, but in the Camp that the Troop I serve patrons, the new scout program runs in the morning, in the afternoon, we have ASM's ready to go over what was taught and whether or not the scout knows his stuff. If not, its reviewed and then the scout demonstrates it. After its verified the skill is learned, its signed off. This doesnt take long as the New Scout program is pretty good, if it wasnt it would take much longer. If the scout is paying attention, lots of requirements are met. If the scout is active he will pick up a few ranks

[jackmessick]

Since only "troop leaders" (which is left to the SM to determine if that includes other youth members) can "sign off" on these requirements, I went ahead and held classes at our leisure time in camp, even though they had a program for this. This allowed the newer Scouts to work on Merit Badges.

 

Ideally at summer camp, the staff should be willing to assist you in whatever your goals are for the camp.

[ASM915]

At our scouting reservation, our program is FROG. It is run by several camp staffers from 9AM to @ noon. They go over T-1st Cl. skills and sign them off. The NS then have the afternoon MB slot open to take one or go to a skills area if they qualify (kayaking, snorkling etc.)

As for MB's like First Aid, Swimming, Pioneering and some others, there are Preq's that have to be met before camp, like 2nd and 1st class Swimming, First Aid, or Knot/Lashing skills with a letter from th SM confirming that the scout meets the Preq.

[bs1964]

GWD - our camp as "The New scout Trail" (TNT) program with a different phase for Tenderfoot (3 hours), 2nd Class (2 hours) and 1st Class (1 hour). They do "sign-off" on a requirements sheet (not the book). I've also noted that very little is actually retained. I think this has to do with getting credit for being present while something was talked about or demonstrated but not having to demonstrate the skill. Through a series of special outings, or break out session on outings, I hope to get most of our new scouts well on the way this year before summer camp.