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Censorship- Sometimes it happens

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A forum member raised a concern that Pappy has used his real name and has given his real location and all and that people were saying all sorts of bad things about him to the point if someone was say googling the school his CO runs, one of our threads could show up and embarrass the school, Pappy, us, etc. I asked Pappy what to do and he agreed I should delete his real name and location and School name but guess what? He has been pretty busy and so have we. I spent some time trying to edit individual posts, but it was very awkward and time consuming. So, in the name of security for people and places in involved in the discussions, I deleted the threads I found where Pappy's name was used and troop number used and such. Being human I cannot claim I got them all, there may be several out there and if you let me know I will take care of them as well. I regret wiping out a lot of discussion but I feel this is the best course. I dont want our activities to effect an unsuspecting entity. If its a passing mention of name, I will edit the post, if theres a lot, I will delete the thread.


Sorry, but I think its the best move

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For the record, I was the member who raised the issue and suggested the response. Those threads were pretty "raw" in many places. While I think Pappy's willingness to come forward when accused of being a fraud is commendable, it did create Google links that might be unfortunate. Some of that text could be pretty off-putting to a parent considering enrolling their child in the school in question.


So blame me if you disagree, I can take it, eh? And I hope Pappy and others can find a new thread to continue discussion of his unique "vision" as friends and fellow Scouters.


Yours in Scouting Service,



and a good ol' Beavah too


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I think that was the right thing to do. OGE, we all have other lives (at least theoretically) in the real world, so I understand if you don't have time to use a surgeon's knife.


Unfortunately, Google caches the content and it still pops up in a google search. Ah well - presumably it will fade over time.


It is kind of weird to have all this meta-discussion of the plant thread when there is no plant thread to refer back to - but I do thank you, OGE, for this thread explaining your actions.

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I see your point(s) -- I was initially mad about the removal, mostly beacause I wanted to copy the good stuff (non personal) like the stories and ideas and save them in a document.. Some really good letters and stories and deep meaningful responses to the attacks on the part of Pappy there..


Your rationale is sound IMO...



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Fellow Scouters,


Seems to make sense to me. Thank goodness we have Moderators.


I get a kick out of a saying from old friend, "Let's organize for anarchy!"


I don't enjoy being interrupted at a campfire, but it has happened. I've also been mis-quoted as well. At work, around a campfire, in college, in church, and even at home.


Sometimes I have wondered if I am reading from the same edition of the Boy Scout Handbook, Scoutmasters Handbook or other BSA literature. I have read aloud certain excerpts of BSA literature and received 3, 4 maybe 5 different interpretation from my Scouting friends.


If I may tell a story..... Here where I live, On television I often see a Public Service Announcement ad.


It has a high school girl that pins a provocative picture of herself on the high school student announcement/bulletin cork board in the school hall way. In the ad, The next day, guys (she does not know) in the local mall make comments to her, even the creepy high school janitor ask when she is going to put another picture on the student announcement cork board in the school hallway. Too late she Realizes that she is receiving more attention and the wrong type of attention than she actually wanted. The next day she tries to rip the photo off of the bulletin board in the hall way. But everytime she rips it off, there is another duplicate photo of her on the cork board. As many times as she tears it up, there is always a picture of her on the board. It is a public service announcement, directed at teenagers to be careful of posting anything on forums like Myspace, facebook, etc. Once it is out there digitally, you can't take it back.


Anyways... When I join a forum (any forum). I understand it is not my personal online forum. It is not my webpage or my server. The only thing that was mine are my typed words, which I have surrendered to a moderator.


About the only thing that the moderator should not have access to is my privacy. My account may be deleted, deactivated, edited, etc. I may not like it, or agree with it, but I understand it.


I tryed to check this forums registration agreement, but I could not find anything specific that we agreed to. But I do see the this forum and Scouter.com webpage has a FAQ. Its not hidden, I read that a Moderator's word in their forum is final. Here is was the FAQ (which is available for everyone to view) says about Moderators.




" Qoute .....

What are moderators

Moderators are the Forum Managers for each forum. There is no limit to the number of forums a single user can moderate. While Moderators do not have access to user account information and cannot change permissions for any particular users they have complete control over their respective forum(s). A Moderator's word in their forum is final. Along with Moderator Status comes the ability to perform the following functions :


Deleting Messages / Purging All Messages

Closing conversation threads

Prohibiting identified Usernames from posting

Requiring a password to post in their forums

Banning abusive users


How can you contact a Forum Moderator

You can either leave a posted message in their forum or send a message to their email address which is posted in their forum.


Can anyone be a Moderator

Usually... All it takes is the interest and desire to take on the responsibility of managing a forum. A frequent presence in the forums is also desired from a moderator.


Interested in becoming a Moderator

Then drop an e-mail message off to the Forum Administrator and let us know you're interested.


Unqoute ...."



Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

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Interesting comment about the high school girl. Suppose she does dumb things, binge drunkenness or free sex for example, and posts about her escapades on the internet. Is she damaged more by the posting and resultant comments, or from the things she does that generate comments? The same could be said for Pappy.

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Moderators are like Scouters - we are volunteers, underpaid, make mistakes and usually are well intentioned. Like most of the Scouting positions I've held as an adult, I was asked to be a moderator. I did not solicit to be one. I must admit, I don't view it as a burden, a perk, etc.


Now, as most are aware, there are multiple moderators for this forum. I'm one and I have never met any of the others (to my knowledge) and just like the unit I belong too, I don't always agree with what the other moderators do or say. Nothing wrong with that.


Please understand that each moderator usually acts on their own so sweeping statements like "the moderators all ..." take way too much liberty.

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You guys did the right thing, and you certainly did ask me first about it before purging those possibly unfortuante references pertaining to the identity of my CO and the like.


My only regret was that the nature of many of the debates and their ancillary threads they generated like the Weblos thread held alot of intersting back and forth that it seems a shame to lose.


Amnesia is one of our culture's, and in fact, one of scouting's, great handicaps. I wouldn't want to think that by erasing the conversations we are condemend to repeat them, or that new forum members may lose an opportunity to have questions and concerns answered and addressed without even having to ask.


ALL my obvious vanity aside, I really enjoyed the thoughts and the efforts made by the other forum members (MOstly - there were some however which *#$@^!*#!!).


And I am sademend that those threads were dissapeared in such a whole sale fashion.


It may have the effect of disuading members from contributung. I hope I'm worng. It surely won't dissuade a blow hard like me!! Eh?!!



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There was a concern expressed to me in PM that the google search engine was directing the words with the CO name towards our heated discussions that involved many amazingly negative critiques of my integrity, including epitaphs cpmparing me to a certain German political party of the 1930's and 40's. THis association may have been very unfortunate for the CO and for that matter for me and for our unit.


I do suspect that there may have been conversations (though I am only specualting here) that may have brought up libel or slander. Certain members seeemd to have fabricated information and used it disparage another member as a fraud (that being me).. THe other remarks, including me being called or likened to a child endangerer, a disembler, prevaricator, imposter, BSA hater, fascist, humbug, and even false prophet, may have gone into the decison to cut the lines and left that raft sink.


SO I am very sympathetic to this line or reasoning. Even though I have sno personel reservations about being a public person.


For more sparkling gems from the Fountainhead of Pappy's magic Campaign Cover, go to the thread "All things Pappy" in the Issues and Politics Thread.



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So thats what happened! I dont think theres any need worry about the Google search at this point. I was just going to make a post in defense of the venerable Webelos name but when I went searching for the thread I got a website cannot display this page. That campfire has been put out.


Thanks for the explanation.





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"THe other remarks, including me being called or likened to a child endangerer, a disembler, prevaricator, imposter, BSA hater, fascist, humbug, and even false prophet..."

Wow, I'm impressed. I had to work for years before I collected all those accolades and I'm still not sure I have received one or two of them yet...h'mmm, need to keep working.;)


Well, I've never been asked to moderate and I've never volunteered. I guess that's good because I'd pretty much let anything go. But I've seen the ad Crew12_Adv mentioned and it is very effective. To be safe, you must keep in mind that pretty much everything that any of us ever writes on the web will be public domain forever. Including the really thoughtless stuff that most of us have regretted from time to time. Have a nice day. :)

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