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Lately things have been in a constant conflict with the actions of other Scouters and Committee Members in their approaches and decisions. Some of their decisions made are not along the lines of walking the walk of BSA aims, methods, oath or law that leaves me flounder that this happens.


For example, last night forms for summer camp were filled out incorrectly stating that the Troop is paying part of a scout's fee when the reality is its their scout account so the scout is paying for it not the troop yet. They are also asking for campership which i don't have a problem with but forms should be filled out correctly.


They want to pay less money so we go through this 'trailer' issue to pay Maine when we live in another state. They want to do Scout Parent over paying more money to National yet they are in the BSA program. Falsify the doctor's signature on the medical form. State the have the required car insurance coverage yet leaving me with doubts that they really do and they are carpooling other Scouts. Waiving certain requirements and/or marking them as done. Smoking in front of the Scouts. I can go on and on.


One of them is an experienced Scouter like myself and I'm dumbstruck. Anyone else experienced this? What really bothers me is the other experienced Scouter's actions is working against the Troop's long term future in being able to recruit and its starting to a ripple effect where the rest are following his words/ actions. What do I do or say and suggestions on approaches or your own experiences? Is this common?.. *shaking head at loss

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I would walk away.


You are not dealing with scouters of integrity. I would first direct the boys to other troops.


forging signatures on a medical form....bad mojo


Car insurance we are a show me the policy......if you doubt it, I have learned to trust my intuition in such matters.


Summer camp fees game?????? Be honest for pete sake......


DS....I struggle with folks on the district level.......The Troop leadership is stellar, a group I am proud to know and be associated with. All are Eagle scouts who grew up in this troop, The SM and I are the only outsiders and have been treated like brothers.


All of the things you list are red flags to me......I would walk away. It just ain't worth it.

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Technically scout accounts are troop monies that assigned to individual youth to use toward the betterment of troop life. If they wern't you'd might as well pay put cash along with 1099 forms at the end of the year.


The other stuff, pick your battles. Personally, I'd harp on the med forms.


The insurance, take 'me at their word. Have them write their coverage on a piece of paper and sign at the bottom. The title for the trailer, don't pull it if you don't like it.


Scout Parents don't get to dictate what you and your CC (oh yeah, that's you too) decide to be picky over. Only the MCs who have paid their dues in time and money get a chance at calling any shots, and even that has to be in an orderly fashion in accordance with the wishes of the CO.

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I have a really dumb question....


why register them as scout parents instead of just dropping them off the charter?????????



Give up that easy.....


What else is going on??? I am going to bet the problems are systemic.


How are the troops finances???? have you seen the bank statements???? With the amount of money you said your troop raised at the spaghetti dinner pinching penny's they way their are worries me. They are filling out camperships for boys yet paying $500 to letter the troop trailer and then registering the trailer out of state....


Something just ain't right.

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The $500 was a donation specifically toward the trailer lettering that came about because a last minute thought and action had a donation bucket with a 'request' sitting on the check in table.


Its not a dumb question on the Scout Parent, Basement. Its a new crossover parent I was trying to get on board registered as Scouter on the Troop side. His wife is going to do the Committee side. He is going on all the campouts and we really need things like for the tour plan and 2 deep leadership.


Someone else suggested the Scout Parent option and I'm thinking that really isn't the best way to go. Is there a pro and con on the Scout Parent versus the registered committee member, Basement and Qwazse other than no vote on the committee? Does registering as a Scout Parent tend to put them in a no involvement mode for the long or short term?

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If the donation bucket on the table netted $500 how much did the spaghetti dinner gross.


So how does the fellow get along with the group......Chemistry is important. Since your going to be spending weekends with him....do you like him....


Other than him being a complete horses @55 I would sign him up.....Get him trained, completely trained for his position. ASM



With any luck he might just be your replacement.



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Personally I'd be MOST concerned about forging a doctor's signature and the car insurance issue.


These are things that are easy to treat in a trivial manner until something goes wrong, and if it does, everyone's butt is going to be on the chopping block, for good reason.


Frankly, if parents are driving, they should be asked to show a troop leader their valid driver's license, vehicle registration and proof of insurance. For EACH activity they drive.


I can just imagine the lawsuit that would be filed over forging a doctor's signature if a youth died or was seriously injured. The council might reasonably refuse to extend liability protection to unit leaders.


I don't have any problems describing Scout Accounts as unit property. They are.


I don't have an issue with signing up Scout Parents--- that's what it's for. But personally I want anyone who is a unit leader signed up as a unit leader for lots of good reasons.


I've heard reasonable people suggest that the trailer registration in Main is legal. Unless I knew for sure or I was likely to be towing it that wouldn't bother me.


Smoking is obviously a non starter.


I walked out on a Scout Troop I didn't trust one time. There was another I did trust a mile away.

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The troop and pack that I work with had some issues like you've mentioned, plus a few of their own. I found that an underlying issue was sufficient organization and volunteers to run the program. Medical forms that were handed out in a timely manner and return requested with reminders for busy parents were completed with appropriate signatures. If checking for up-to-date medical forms was left to the last minute before a camp out, signatures were more likely to be forged. The solution was easy, have someone (not the scoutmaster!) be responsible for handing out new medical forms and checking that they are completed and signed on a regular basis.


For other issues, like gambling (aka raffles)at pack meetings, I simply kept repeating to everyone in the leadership meeting and outside the meeting that if we CAN do activities that meet the rules, then we SHOULD do activities that follow the rules. And offered up some fun ideas that we could do instead.


And we had a couple of issues that the Scoutmaster took a firm stance on, like alcohol on camp outs. We lost a few leaders over that one. And it makes me wonder how strict their new troop is on the issue that was so gosh darn important to them.

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I had a couple scouts who transferred out. I knew their new Troop staff from my Pack days. They are more stricter than me... *grins Heard they already tried to pull the stuff with them that they did with me and it was a no go.


Sasha, I have to agree that much is last minute in our Troop even though I've been mentioning things. I'm already looking to next year and changing my approach with STATING deadlines. With this year it was the insurance doesn't cover the physical year but every 5 years so they have to pay out of pocket for it. I like your wording on FOLLOW the rules if we can do the activities that MEET the rules. Looks like I need to arm some comebacks up my sleeves. Guessing not my strong trait.. *smiles

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Forging a doctor's signature is a crime. The other stuff is also in character for them. They are liars. Call them out individually and privately for what they are. Then put distance between them and you and yours.

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I don't think this is common, but it depends on what this is.


Forging doctor's signatures is something we would never do (at least, not in any situation that I can reasonably think ok.) We do want a doctor to sign off on those forms.


Smoking in front of the kids never happens in our group. I can see that in groups of regular smokers there might be some inadvertent moment, but I get the impression that you're talking about more than that.


The other items aren't so clear cut. The money in the Scout accounts could be considered troop money. Legally registering a trailer in another state seems ok. Registering as ScoutParent seems fine.


Waiving requirements does seem pretty common. Our summer camp does a lot of it. Merit badge days do a lot of it. Most of us don't like it. Sometimes there can legitimately be a matter of judgment applied in my opinion, but not outright ignoring.


if parents are driving, they should be asked to show a troop leader their valid driver's license, vehicle registration and proof of insurance. For EACH activity they drive


Really? This would be another crazy logistical burden. I do want parents to have insurance, but I'm not going to ask them to prove it every time. I'm not even sure what the insurance is really covering that I care about - I'm pretty sure all of my Scouts have medical insurance.


In summary, I would not be happy in this troop. I would really avoid forging doctor's signatures, outright waiving of requirements, and openly smoking in front of the kids.


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As some others have said, run, not walk, away. Forging a doctor's signature is illegal, not just unethical. IMHO, the rest of the issues are minor in comparison.


As others have said, the Scout account is not the Scout's funds, it is the troop's in the name of the Scout.



Find another troop. Ask your district for a list of other local troops.

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I see lots of new screen names so let me say:


I am the Scoutmaster for this Troop who's primary goal is to revitalize this Troop that started in 1936. I was brought in because of my heavy Scouting experience, training and ability to communicate with the Deaf family via ASL ( American Sign Language). The Scoutmaster role is new to me but I was an involved parent doing almost every campout with my son's Troop. (This is NOT my son's Troop).


I don't have the option of running from this Troop. I've already made my decision to give it another year. When I walked in there were only 2 families (as the third was already at Eagle BOR). My adherence to BSA advancement regulations and their family dynamics (Mom & Dad are split. Dad is the primary parent yet Mom was my primary contact. Mom was my CC for 2 days when I expected her to fullfil her CC role. The previous SM did both CC and SM.) Dad transferred to another Troop.


Now we have 4 new crossover with previous pack committee experience along with my ASM who's focus is now on the Troop instead of the absenteeism ASM who's focus was the Pack. These parents really do follow this ASM and good at roping everyone on board. My conflict is regulations and these little things that don't walk the talk of the Scout's and the sponsor's core values. My ASM is an experiences Scouter like myself but doesn't have the long sight vision like I do. They also don't realize they are a part of the causes in the Troop's decline so things have to be handle carefully on my part. (They are forcing my hand on the trailer diversion issues.) Please do realize yes, I have multiple things I'm working one within this Troop's revitalization and rebuilding its foundations.


Sasha is right in this 'last minute' theme which I've been fighting against since day one in this Troop which is why a goal of next year's calendar in at the TOP of my list along with a budget plan. I think Qwazse has it right in 'picking' my battles.


So PLEASE don't suggest the option of running away/walking away. I really would like to hear other's perspective and experiences on this walk the talk issue and these other issues with suggestions of solution approaches, comebacks and etc.


I'm realizing I have a weakness in comebacks and can honestly contribution that to my hearing loss plus never having really had to deal with these kinds of issues in my other leadership roles like den leader or chairs. I have a strength in reading which why I'm on the boards here.

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