bnelon44 17 Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 You will find a nonfillable version of the new workbook here: http://www.troop439.net/512-927_Eagle_Scout_Service_Project_Workbook.pdf From the Advancement Newsletter that came out Friday: The fillable PDF document will be available shortly at http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/BoyScouts/AdvancementandAwards/resources.aspx. Like the Guide to Advancement, it has been completely rewritten. The new workbook supports the revised wording in Eagle Scout requirement 5, which calls for a project proposal to be approved by the council or district, rather than the project plan. Scouts have a choice to use either the new workbook or the one it is replacing. If they have already had their Eagle Scout service project approved by the council or district under the current wording of requirement 5, using the current workbook, they should continue with the same workbook. If their project has not yet been approved by the council or district, they may elect to use the new wording and the new workbook. For Scouts who choose to use the new workbook, those approving Eagle Scout service projects must evaluate projects accordingly, using the procedures outlined in the Guide to Advancement, and judging candidates project proposals. Those responsible for council or district project approval do not have the authority to require use of the previous workbook edition if Scouts have elected to use the new requirement and the new workbook. We are aware of issues some Eagle Scout candidates have encountered using fillable PDF workbooks. Though we have taken some measures to improve the fillable PDF, some may still experience difficulties with it. As a solution, we are currently working toward a new approach to the workbook that may involve an online, interactive, downloadable application. If testing proves it to be a superior document, fully functional on virtually any operating system, we will abandon the fillable PDF version. Regardless, the workbook will continue to be available for printing a hard copy that can be completed by hand or with a typewriter. Link to post Share on other sites
5yearscouter 52 Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 working my way thru the project workbook. seems pretty straightforward and clear cut. on page20 where you list who helped you complete your project and hours it lists the following types of people: -The Eagle Scout candidate -Other youth (brothers, sisters, friends, etc., who are not BSA members) -Registered BSA adult Scout leaders -Other adults (parents, grandparents, etc., who are not BSA members note there is NOT a place to include Scout youth who are registered members of the BSA. is the other youth supposed to include BSA youth members, typo, or??? Link to post Share on other sites
bnelon44 17 Posted October 9, 2011 Author Share Posted October 9, 2011 Already reported. That will be fixed before it goes online. As well as making the cover page more injet-printer friendly. Link to post Share on other sites
5yearscouter 52 Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Thanks! I didn't see anything else that stands out as being wrong or off. looks pretty clear, and should help with some of the districts/units that require project documentation that rivals an architect's works before approving the work. and allows an out if the beneficiary changes their mind half way thru and won't approve the work cause they want the boy to do more/different things than what was originally agreed upon. Link to post Share on other sites
NC Scouter 11 Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 This will not be received well by the project review committee in our council. The brevity intended, clearly indicated by the guidance in the form ("You do not need a detailed list ...") and the lines and numbered lines that restrict the amount of text needed, will send them reeling. No more detailed, step-by-step work plan, etc., etc.? I wonder what they will find to obsess about now? Link to post Share on other sites
Twocubdad 665 Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 PRAISE BE! I've got an almost-17-year-old, 240 pound, defensive tackle/Life Scout doing back flips down the hall. It's an amazing sight. So is the new workbook. No more 50 page, Six-Sigma Green Belt project proposals. The underlying principle is a good one: all the detailed planning work should be part of the project, not the proposal which could be shot down. My older son had that happen with his first proposed project. I frequently had boys spend more time planning their project that executing it, yet the planning/proposal work didn't count. The new process corrects that. It also puts more of the responsibility for the ultimate success of the project on the Scout -- where it belongs. Once the proposal is approved in concept, the scout is responsible for detailed planning and execution of the project with out further review by the district or council. One of the reasons our council required such a crazy amount of detail on EP plans was they felt if every contingency was covered in advance, sucess was guaranteed. Part of the new approach is that boys should continue to grow and learn from their project, not create some sort of masterpiece. To do so, I think Scouts need the freedom and flexibility and opportunity to fail in order to learn. Like NC Scouter, I can only imagine the consternation this will cause on our council level EP review committee and how they will respond. What's going to happpen to their 50-point check list of stuff they require to be covered in proposals? Link to post Share on other sites
moosetracker 132 Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 So I printed out the new workbook for husband & son yesterday, because they were going to the Eagle board that night. That way they could introduce it. I read some, around the parts you guys indicated was different. They said "Sounds like the old one..".. Don't ask me, I wasn't keeping up on it.. Then they said something else I thought was strange.. Is this a change to the National Eagle project workbook or the council Eagle project workbook?.. Well news to me our council put out it's own workbook (Could put out it's own workbook).. Oh yeah, nationals was not clear enough, so council made their own.. Really!!! Wow.. Does council make up it's own merit badge books too?? Maybe by their comments councils now is close to the council Eagle project workbook, but still... REALLY!!! I guess if the scout uses the workbook they get in the mail when they turn Life scout or go to the Council website for a workbook, they would get the council workbook.. But, I guess I have to ask.. What if they just go on line surf the net & download "A" workbook, from any other site? Do they get National's workbook, or some other councils "council made workbook".. Of course I guess there are still scouts come to the eagle board with proposals that were concieved without the benefit of any workbook.. They had two boys from one place last night. One scout's proposal was approved, the other denied.. The one who was denied was because he wanted to do family research for the benifit of one man, have scouts in another state do some of the research (which he could not lead them in, because he would not be present).. Then he himself travel to some other country in order to personally present it to this one guy. It had nothing to do with benifiting the community. The scout had no alternative proposals, and when shocked this would not do. The committee read out of the Eagle project workbook, about it benefiting church, school, community.. Scoutmaster said he was new and didn't know anything about the workbook.. Well one of his scouts passed the board without benefit of the workbook, neither Nationals workbook or the councils workbook.. Link to post Share on other sites
bnelon44 17 Posted October 10, 2011 Author Share Posted October 10, 2011 From page 3 of the workbook: "Only the Official Workbook May Be Used Eagle Scout candidates must use the official Eagle Scout Service Project Workbook, No. 512-927, as produced by the Boy Scouts of America. The official fillable PDF version can be found at www.scouting.org. Although it is acceptable to copy and distribute the workbook, it must maintain the same appearance with nothing changed, added, or deleted. "No council, district, unit, or individual has the authority to produce or require additional forms, or to add or change requirements, or to make any additions, deletions, or changes in the text, outlines, links, graphics, or other layout or informational elements of the workbook. It is permissible, however, to print, copy, or send individual pages or forms within the workbook as long as they are not changed in the process." I would also suggest reading pages 21 & 22 of the workbook. Link to post Share on other sites
moosetracker 132 Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 bnelon44 - You don't need to say that twice to me.. I am in perfect agreement with you. Hopefully this new book has tightened up the loose ends to my councils satisfaction, because like-it or lump-it that is what they should be using.. I think I may become a hen-pecking wife, and force my husband to march into the next council planning meeting for Advancement with the new workbook in hand, and that little paragraph highlighted.. Link to post Share on other sites
bnelon44 17 Posted October 10, 2011 Author Share Posted October 10, 2011 moosetracker, I would give them a few weeks to digest the material on their own. They just received notification of it LATE on Friday. I had already left work so many who use their work emails probably will only receive it today when they log on. Then they have to carefully read both documents and digest the changes. For some councils there are a lot of corrections they have to implement. Link to post Share on other sites
moosetracker 132 Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 We only have the Council Program meeting every 2 months, and just had it 2 weeks back. So they will have roughly about 6 weeks.. My husband says the guy in charge of advancement is a black & white guy. On this issue, let us hope that is true. I don't know how long a "council" Eagle workbook has been in place, but I am sure my kids didn't use it. I found the "fillable PDF" on-line form (not our council) and directed my son & his friend to that, because they would have otherwise have needed ump-teen copies of a paper workbook until they got a workable copy.. They are just of the computer age, they were both more comfortable with that.. Link to post Share on other sites
bnelon44 17 Posted October 10, 2011 Author Share Posted October 10, 2011 The new workbook will be going up on scouting.org as a fillable PDF soon. National is also testing an downloadable application that can run on any operating system (so they say) and would allow more flexability of entry than a fillable PDF. Not sure when that may be released. They are not looking at RTF or DOC files. Probably because there is too much of a temptation for local councils to change things. Link to post Share on other sites
pchadbo 60 Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 force my husband to march into the next council planning meeting for Advancement with the new workbook in hand, and that little paragraph highlighted Yep He'd love that, I can see his face now. . . Can you let me know when that is so I can watch. . . Link to post Share on other sites
SSScout 1615 Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Clarifications please. The ESLSPWB I just printed out : *Only had 16 pages. No page 23. *Page 3 did NOT have the wording """Only the Official Workbook May Be Used Eagle Scout candidates must use the official Eagle Scout Service Project Workbook, No. 512-927, as produced by the Boy Scouts of America. The official fillable PDF version can be found at www.scouting.org. Although it is acceptable to copy and distribute the workbook, it must maintain the same appearance with nothing changed, added, or deleted. "No council, district, unit, or individual has the authority to produce or require additional forms, or to add or change requirements, or to make any additions, deletions, or changes in the text, outlines, links, graphics, or other layout or informational elements of the workbook. It is permissible, however, to print, copy, or send individual pages or forms within the workbook as long as they are not changed in the process." "" * There is nowhere a Date of Revision. How to know this is THE version to use? *Got this from http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/512-927.pdf referred from http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/BoyScouts/AdvancementandAwards/eagle.aspx What did I miss in this conversation? Link to post Share on other sites
bnelon44 17 Posted October 10, 2011 Author Share Posted October 10, 2011 SSScout, The new Eagle Scout Service Project Workbook we are discussing is here: http://www.troop439.net/512-927_Eagle_Scout_Service_Project_Workbook.pdf It is not yet at scouting.org. Currently you use what is at scouting.org until it is replaced with this one. Link to post Share on other sites
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