SpecialScouting Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 Several merit badges have overlapping requirements. Once they are done, do they count as done for each merit badge that requires it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clemlaw Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 In general, yes. However, there might be some cases where the requirement is not satisfied. For example, if the requirement is "build a whatchamacallit after having your plans approved by your counselor", then the requirement is not satisfied, just because the Scout built a whatchamacallit last year for another merit badge, because he's only done half the requirement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basementdweller Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 Clem you cannot say that, are you a merit badge councilor? I am going to tell you that your are flat wrong. Double dipping is a bad thing and repetition never hurt anyone. If your scout comes to me and says "Mr B. I did this requirement already for camping, I just need you to sign it off." My response is going to be "Well if you all ready did the "X requirement" then demonstrating or discussing it won't be a problem." Do the skill, show proficiency you get it signed off. Boy scouting actually requires you to demonstrate the skill instead of doing your best like cubs. Double dipping is how we end up with so many paper eagle scouts. (This message has been edited by Basementdweller) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clemlaw Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 Well, I guess I should clarify. If the requirement says "build a whatchamacallit", then the requirement is not satisfied by merely saying, "I built one last year". Completion of the requirement needs to be demonstrated to the satisfaction of the counselor. But if the Scout is working on two merit badges that have the same requirement, then I think it would be perfectly acceptable to use the same whatchamacallit for both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpecialScouting Posted July 18, 2011 Author Share Posted July 18, 2011 I agree that a scout should be able to demonstrate a learned skill to a new merit badge counselor. These were the ones where the questions came up: Athletics & Sports: Athletics requires participation in 1 season of a sport. Sports requires participation in 1 season of 2 different sports. Can the sport season used for Athletics count as one of the 2 for Sports? Dog Care & Pets: Dog Care requires taking care of a dog for 2 months, and Pets for four months...so do they have to do 6 months? Most of the water-related badges say to pass the BSA swimmers test. Once it is passed, does it have to be taken each time the scout goes to a water activity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clemlaw Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 Yes, those were the kinds of examples I was thinking of. IMHO, those would all be perfectly acceptable, as long as the counselor for each merit badge was satisfied that the requirement for that particular badge had been met. As far as the swimmer test, if I were the counselor for one of those MB's (which I'm not), I would probably want to see some "official" documentation that the requirement had been met recently. If there were any doubt, I would want to see the Scout pass the test with my own eyes before engaging in any water activities. But in my mind, that's no so much a requirement for the MB, but more of a prerequisite. But if Mr. X is satisfied that Fido was cared for as a "pet" for 4 months, and Ms. Y is satisfied that Fido was cared for as a "dog" for two of those months, then I would say the Scout has completed both requirements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basementdweller Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 Clem I respectfully disagree. The BSA swimmer test is good for a year, while listed as a requirement I view it more as a safety precaution. Most boys do this a summer camp each year, I have taken and passed guessing 20 or so BSA swimmer tests, well I failed the first one. Hiking, camping and backpacking have roughly the same basic first aid knowledge requirements.....Most second class scouts can complete these requirements blindfolded. Just saying. Far as your athletics requirements I would ask your MBC. If you have different MBC for each you could double dip, let your councilor guide you. There is no BSA guide saying yes or no to double dipping. A story about an Eagle project, neighboring troop is at a catholic school. The students are required to have x number of volunteer hours every academic year. One young man counted his eagle project for three different things, School, Eagle and Ranger award. While it is not written anywhere it is not in the spirit or intention of the awards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abel Magwitch Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 A Scout must do the requirement, no more and no less. If several merit badges have the same requirement, and the lad has done the requirement, he gets credit for it. A Scout need not complete it again. There are several merit badges that require a Scout to perform CPR. How many times must a Scout perform CPR? Each time he goes for a merit badge that has the requirement? Or can the Scout learn CPR say from the Red Cross and get credit for the CPR requirments for several badges? Most summer camps I know offer a CPR class during camp for which once a Scout attends that class, he will get credit for the CPR requirement for all the merit badges he may be going for at summer camp that require CPR. My 2 cents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoutNut Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 The BSA rule is to complete the requirements as written - with out adding, or subtracting, anything from them. Unless the Merit Badge requirements specifically state that completion of a specific requirement can not be used for any other Merit Badge requirements, there is nothing wrong with using one activity to cover multiple requirements. However - What to accept as completed Merit Badge work is up to the specific Merit Badge Counselor. If your Scouts are working on the Athletics and Sports Merit Badges at the same time, with the same Counselor, I would think that the Counselor would let them combine certain things. For instance, I can not see requiring them to repeat twice an explanation of the importance of a physical exam, good health habits, and a healthy diet. If they are using separate Counselors, and especially if they are not completing both badges at the same time, they would have to talk to their Counselor about accepting work done for/with another Counselor, for another Merit Badge. Bottom line - it is up to the Merit Badge Counselor, and ONLY the Merit Badge Counselor, to approve work on the Merit Badge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMT224 Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 What's the point here - to allow the Scout to learn skills that will last him a life time, or to accumulate as many merit badges as possible and advance in rank as quickly as possible? We do not allow double dipping for anything. Each rank advancement element and each merit badge requirement element are considered separate entities and must be completed separately. Overlapping requirements are irrelevant. Each requirement must be completed to achieve rank advancement or earn the merit badge and that's that. We find that this consistent policy works as it is very clear and requires no fuzzy judgement on a case by case basis. It works very well for our Asperbergers and similar Scouts who understand the rules and are happy if we stick to them too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RememberSchiff Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 Well said SMT224. Double dipping is bad. Review is good. A scout who passed a merit badge CPR requirement 4 or more years ago, may be surprised that the procedure has changed (more than one?). Being current is better. Learning to "continue to learn" throughout life is best. My $0.02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clemlaw Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 >>>>We do not allow double dipping Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momof2cubs Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 Double dipping is something that comes up often in this forum. This is particularly pervasive in cub scouting, where belt loop/pin requires can considerably overlap with the achievements. However, one thing we can all agree on in here (I hope) is that no unit may add to the requirements of anything. So let me ask this: A scout properly cares for his dog for 4 months. The MBC for Pet MB asks the scouts: did you properly take care of a pet for 4 months? Scout: yes I did. I took care of my dog for 4 months (shows documentation). Then the MBC for Dog Care asks the scout: did you properly take care of a dog for 2 months: Scout: yes I did (shows same documentation). The scout answered honestly both times. I am honestly asking now: is this wrong? A letter vs spirit argument maybe? I could argue that making the scout do it in two separate occasions (of 4 and 2 months each) is adding to the requirements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John-in-KC Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 It depends on what the Counselor is willing to accept. It really is that simple. If Mr SM does not like what Mr Counselor chooses to accept/reject, he's got a point of control: He does not assign that MBC to any more Scouts. As to mom's question, at my first visit with the Scout, I'm going to tell him the clock for taking care of Fido winds today. (This message has been edited by John-in-Kc) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basementdweller Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 I am going to guess SS is going to run merit badge classes during her troop meetings. She is wondering how quickly she can blow thru them and get HER first eagle. It is about the journey and those you meet along the way and not the destination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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