Should Scouts serve on Boards of Review?

[Beavah]

I agree, scouts can control every step of the troop program "Except" the BOR. It makes no sense to me that we are tasked to develop character, but then show our distrust of that character by not allowing scouts review their peers for rank.

 

The quote above was from Eagledad in the parent thread.

 

Seems like a good thing to discuss. Particularly seeing as how in many troops Advancement Method becomes a major focus, eh? So if da major focus is adult-led and run (on a troop rather than patrol basis), then isn't it undermining everything we're tryin' to do with the other Methods?

 

Beavah

 

[moosetracker]

I think one or two older scouts on a BOR are good, and we have done it from time to time, but not consistantly.. But, I don't agree that they should be in place of the adults on the board. Nor that the SM or ASM's should do the BOR.

 

The board for the most part is not to be a pass fail test out, so it is not for the same purpose as the scouts checking them on their skills, in fact the questions asked should be little in the way of checking their skill level. The purpose is to find out what they like and dislike about the program and to find ways to improve the program..

 

It is also another way, like merit badges counsilors for the boys to get use to dealing and talking with adults who are not of the normal adults that they deal with in the program.

 

It is a checks and balance, you need people to come in from time to time to run an audit on your buisness and figure out how to improve it. The BOR is sort of like an audit..

 

I do like the older scouts on the board so that they start seeing another perspective of the program.

[OldGreyEagle]

I thought the Board of Review was part of the Adult Association method of scouting. The youth experiences being alone with adults and must converse with them, adding a youth changes the dynamic,

 

Then again, it may help

[BadenP]

The SM and ASM on a BOR is more than adequate "adult association" however for ranks from Tenderfoot to Life it only makes sense to have senior scouts who know the boy on the board which is how BP envisioned it anyway. Sorry OGE but a BOR's purpose is NOT for adult association but to properly assess a candidates readiness to receive the next rank plain and simple. IMHO adults taken from the district or even the troop committee who do not even know the boy asessing his readiness does a great disservice to him and to how the the troop is suppossed to be run. Eagledad expressed it well in the other thread, we teach the boys leadership but then we do not trust them to use these skills. I think you would find more scouts on the BOR would make it a more honest tool for real evaluation of a scouts skills, leadership, and spirit.

 

Modern day scouting has become so far removed from its origins that it is small wonder why the numbers keep dropping. Our current CSE, if he gets his way will do even more damage to the organization with his soccer scouting, continual deemphasis on the outdoor scouting program. Every year there is more and more adult control happening in boy scout troops, the program hardest hit by declining numbers, and yet no one at National sees the correlation. In too many cases modern boy scouting has become nothing more than an older version of cub scouts, from the racing through the ranks, limited leadership skill sets being taught or opportunities to be put into practice, poor quality Eagle projects, etc., etc. A BOR is a great opportunity for older scouts to practice the leadership skills we should be teaching them all along.

[moosetracker]

Well the BOR being the Committees role has had to be around for a while. My husband had his BOR with the Adult Committee in late 60's and early 70's..

 

They were tougher then too, and it was a test out, in fact his brother had to do two Eagle projects because the first one the Troop committee flunked him on, the second on the same guy that had something against his brother was ready to flunk him again.. I do think the adults got into an adult "thing" on that one and he was passed..

 

I am unsure if they had an EBOR at district level, but I remember this story being brought up a few times.

 

Now aday, they have passed the skills with the Boys checking them, they have done the SM conference where the SM may retest if they wish, and the Troop Committee has little to do with another rehashing of the skills.. It is things like what event was your favorite? Least favorite? What merit badge did you like/not like.. What would you like to change.. etc..

 

If the boy has a hard time with the SM, or the SPL, I doubt it will be brought up if the SPL and SM are asking the question.. It is like singing a song, then asking someone how you did. You could be the worst singer and everyone will say how wonderful you were... Well except for my co-worker & family who tell me I can't sing.. (but it is just jealousy..)

 

Besides the people we have on our board are very knowledgable of Scout craft.. Our ASM rarely go on outings, our committee do... It is something my husband wants changed, as Advancement chair, he doesn't see why he is the 2nd to the scoutmaster who is "expected" to go on all outings when 4-5 ASM rarely ever go.

[moosetracker]

PS.. One of the functions of The BOR is also getting the scout use to coming in front of adults he is not that familure with, so that the EBOR which will be in front of a bunch of adults he is not that familure with (if at all), is not so intimedating..

 

Honestly Committee member does not mean nitwit..!!

 

We have committee members who have been old SM and ASM's.. Committee members who have been Venturing advisors and committee members who have the Appalachian Trail doing week long hikes then next year being dropped were they left off and continuing another week... We have a committee member specially trained to work with the scouts who are mentally of phyically challenged in the group, sometimes working with the scout, and sometimes with the patrol leader of that scout. 3/4 of our committee is IOLS trained..

 

Yet you state they are incapable of asking a scout, "What was your favorite merit badge?" And being able to under stand the answer a scout would give.. Sort of sounds insulting.

[BadenP]

Sorry Moose but I too was a scout in the late 60's and early 70's and all BOR's, except EBOR's, were done by the PLC with the SM and ASM, that was the norm in my council. The adult controlled BOR's were part of that urban scouting disaster of the mid 70's and it never changed. Kudu might possibly argue that was the same time WoodBadge started its move from scoutcraft to management mode. In any case however an all adult panel for a BOR is just plain wrong and goes against everything we teach the boys about leadership. IMHO what really is ruining boy scouts resulting in an ever increasing number of lost troops and boys are adult scouters who can't let go of any control to the boys who should be running it according to BP. Too many adult scouters are either reliving or living for the first time their own scouting fantasies much to the detriment of the program and the boys. If this trend doesn't start to reverse real soon we will see the end of Boy Scouts, as it was envisioned by BP, in another decade. What will be left will be an impotent, wishy washy, dull lifeless program.

[Eagle92]

Well as I commented on previously, growing up in the mid-late 80s, PLC members PLC (for my troop that consisted of all the PLs, SPL, and the Leadership Corps members[roughly the Venture patrol of today and all troop level officers were on it) sat on T-2-1 BORs. Those consisted on 2 adults and 1 youth, with the youth being the chairman. You couldn't sit on a member of your patrol's BOR, nor a sibling's. I thought it was a great experience, allowed younger scouts to open up easier if needed, and gave some experience to the scout on how to conduct interviews later in life. I can tell you that what I learned formsitting on BORs has helped me interview folks for jobs.

[DeanRx]

FWIW-

 

I too recall having BOR's for the lower ranks (T-2-1) that consisted of 2 adluts (usually a Committee member or an ASM or both) and ONE later rank scout (Star, Life or Eagle).

 

The BOR never had the SM or a family member (if involved w/ the troop) of the scout, but I had several BOR's with an ASM on it. I'm honestly not sure our unit would have had the volunteers to DO a good BOR if they didn't have it as part of ASM's duty.

 

The older scout was a member of the BOR, but as I recall only asked questions and didn't really "have a vote" so to speak. It was not so much of a test out, than it was an assesment of how well you had learned and retained the knowledge and subject matter for the rank at hand. Very few things were a direct test out save maybe being asked to tie a certain knot, tell when to use a certain knot, or to recite from memory the oath or law.

 

Most of the rest of the BOR was some thing like... "You had to camp out x number of nights for the camping MB you earned for this rank. Tell me where you camped and two things that were fun and two things you found difficult on those campouts?"

 

It was more a tool for getting the scout to realize there was some learning that went on inside all the fun he has had while working on the rank.

 

Then again - most of my advancement stuff was done outdoors while on campouts, resident camp, hiking, etc... hard to ask those types of questions if the majority of the unit's advancement is accomplished via merit badge university.

[DeanRx]

the older scout on the BOR was usually one that was pretty familiar with the scout in question. So, they also acted to attest to the accomplishments of the scout sitting for the BOR as well as posing questions to him.

 

Sometimes it was another scout from their patrol, sometimes not - but always one you were friends with and never your PL or the SPL. SPL might have sat in, but just as an observer.

[UCEagle72]

As another of those late-60s, early-70s group -- I vividly remember attending BORs with our Committee Chair, and two older Scouts (usually an ASPL, but normally the SPL and another PL).

[John-in-KC]

I earned the rank of Life Scout as a youth. Want to know something? I do not remember a single BOR. Now, the first time I shot a .22? Yes. The Mile Swim, yes. Backpacking in the Sierra Nevada, yes. My Ordeal? Yes.

 

Not a single BOR.

 

T-2-1? No reason, but I'd like the youth being on the Board to be Life or Eagle, and have learned a thing or two on the trail.

 

S-L-E? Nope.

 

Palms? Palms to me are a different Board. They should be about how the Scout is giving back, and about how he wants to consider his future...

[SMEagle819]

Like Eagle92, I also grew up during the '80s, and can recall scouts sitting on BORs. Looking back in my Scout Handbook (yes, I still have it), the "Scoutmaster's Conference" was called "Personal Growth Agreement Conference."

 

Now that I am an SM, I still have older, "higher ranking" scouts sit in on BORs. Not all of the time, but most of the time. It gives the older, more expexperience scout a view from the other side, and lets them interact on a different level with the scouts that are being reviewed.

 

Also, I have had young adult (18 +) Eagle Scouts sit on an EBOR. Actually had one sit on a board back in August. He gave a different perspective to the adults sitting on the board, as he had earned his Eagle last September (this Eagle was 19 at the time he sat on the board). He asked some good questions, and was very supportive of the eagle candidate. IMHO, I believe that a young person 18 years or older should be eligible to be classified as a commitee member if they so desire.

 

Having the boys, especially those of higher rank and leadership positions, sit on BORs are definitely an asset to the process. We have "buy-ins" from the committee and CO to continue to operate this way, so I'm going to keep running with it.

[GKlose]

I recall earning T-1C prior to the '72 program revisions, and have no recollections of boards. I do have vague memories of boards after that, with committee members (and not other Scouts).

 

Our troop, until recently, was having a Scout sit on boards every now and then (the chair also had turned boards into "grilling sessions" that were routinely failed). I'm not sure when the practice started, but when I was chairing a Life board last year, there was a recently-minted Life scout that started to sit in on the same board. I thanked him and told him "we've got this." He said "okay" and left the room.

 

Guy

[Eagle92]

'819,

 

If memory serves, community leaders can sit on EBORs, and I would call any Eagle Scout who is still active a community leader. Just no sitting on his troop's EBORs as he is registered as an ASM.