another double dip question

[ManyHats]

Hubby is working on couseling the historic carpentry MB. He didn't want them just building a tool box, so he has a larger project for them. The local fair grounds needs a wheel chair ramp to the arena. They will not only do the wood working, but also paint the ramp. Advancement chair asked if the project could also be used for community service hours. How would you respond?

[bacchus]

My response would be that if the activity fulfills both requirements then you can count it for both. You can do that any time the requirement does not specifically exclude that option.

[evmori]

What does the SM say?

 

If I was the SM, it would count.

[Frank17]

It is up to the SM, but it should count.

 

The MB wants the scouts to get experience doing carpentry; it does not specify who it should be done for. If it can serve double duty by helping a community organization, so much the better.

[ManyHats]

SM was busy with SM conferences, so advancement chair just asked hubby ASM. I'll tell him it's the SM's call.

[Lisabob]

In this case I would count it. This is different from the Cit. in Community MB where scouts are obligated to do a certain number of service hours for the badge. In that example, I would argue the service hours should count toward the badge, but those same hours should not be counted AGAIN toward service hours for rank advancement.

 

The difference here is that the carpentry badge doesn't require service hours - it just requires carpentry.

 

But in the end it is up to the SM to make the call.

 

 

 

[evmori]

In this case I would count it. This is different from the Cit. in Community MB where scouts are obligated to do a certain number of service hours for the badge. In that example, I would argue the service hours should count toward the badge, but those same hours should not be counted AGAIN toward service hours for rank advancement.

 

When I was a SM, I would let the Scouts I in my unit use the services hours for the Cit in Comm MB as part of their service hours for rank. There is nothing that prohibits it other than the SM not allowing it.

[packsaddle]

Yes, I agree with the others. I'd count it for both.

[ManyHats]

Thanks for the replies.

[Buffalo Skipper]

I believe that the call regarding service hours should be made by the SM (or whomever in your unit is responsible for this; is it the Advancement Coordinator?).

 

However, I would have reservations regarding this project (handicap ramp) for the Carpentry MB. Requirement 6 states: "Make a simple article of furniture for practical use in the home or on the home grounds, finished in a workmanlike manner, all work to be done without assistance." I would consider neither a "ramp" nor a "tool box" as apiece of furniture. And the stipulation "...to be done without assistance" would not, in my estimation, be useful for a group project.

 

Remember, Merit Badges are meant as an individual accomplishment, not part of a group effort (unless so specified, such as Canoeing reqs. 6 & 7, or Pioneering MB req. 10).

[ManyHats]

I believe the ramp is only part of the plan. Part of the other requirements will be met with the ramp project.

 

Req #2. Demonstrate the proper way to drive, set, and clinch a nail, draw a spike with a claw-hammer, and to join two pieces of wood with screws.

 

Req #3. Show correct use of the cross-cut saw and of the rip-saw.

[Knot Head]

The painting of the ramp would be a good springboard for the painting merit badge.

 

Not sure about the ramp given what buffalo said above. I don't counsel this badge so I can't say for sure, but consider his comment.

 

YMMV.

[John-in-KC]

A tool box is not a simple item of furniture.

 

The requirement is:

Make a simple article of furniture for practical use in the home or on the home grounds, finished in a workmanlike manner, all work to be done without assistance.

 

This is not a group project, this is a solo project.

 

If your unit wants to do a group service project to build a ramp, that's one thing.

 

Doing it for the historic merit badge? He's taking away from the requirements, by having it be a group project.

[Lisabob]

I think we're getting off track from the original poster's actual question here...

[John-in-KC]

Let me try this one more time, for clarity:

 

Do the ramp as a unit service project. It does not meet the requirements of the Carpentry Merit Badge as stated.

 

Here are the requirements for Carpentry. For the ramp to be a place where the Counselor can grant the Scout credit for the requirement, one or more must be met:

 

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/BoyScouts/AdvancementandAwards/MeritBadges/2010_mb_carpentry.aspx

 

To obtain a Merit Badge for Carpentry, a Scout must:

 

1. Demonstrate the use of the rule, square, level, plumb-line, mitre, chalk-line and bevel.

2. Demonstrate the proper way to drive, set, and clinch a nail, draw a spike with a claw-hammer, and to join two pieces of wood with screws.

3. Show correct use of the cross-cut saw and of the rip-saw.

4. Show how to plane the edge, end and the broad surface of a board.

5. Demonstrate how to lay shingles.

6. Make a simple article of furniture for practical use in the home or on the home grounds, finished in a workmanlike manner, all work to be done without assistance.

 

I do not see how requirement 6 can be met by a group project.