Falsification of requirements

[mbrigham]

About a month ago a boy advanced to the rank of Tenderfoot. He completed both his Scoutmaster conference and his board of review. This past week, as a committee member I was informed that this scout had signed his own book as completing the requirements for advancement. I have confirmed with the scout's assistant scoutmaster that the scout had not completed the requirements in question. The assistant scoutmaster was surprised about the advancement upon his return from vacation. The assistant scoutmaster noted that the dates in his book are prior to him bridging to the troop. At this point, can the rank be rescended? We would like to meet with both the boy and his parents prior to this action. What are the consequences for such an action keeping in mind the Scout Law?

[evmori]

If nothing has been turned into council, yes.

[Lisabob]

Let's back up a step.

 

Does the boy clearly understand that he isn't supposed to sign his own book?

 

Does he understand that "trustworthy" means some very concrete things?

 

What would he do if someone turned to him and said "Gosh Bobby, you're a Tenderfoot, can you help with this snakebite 1st aid case over here? We need your know-how right away."

 

A scoutmaster conference is in order. Depending on what he was thinking when he did this, it could be a discussion about reputation and how much harder it is to repair damaged trust, than to maintain trust in good standing. If he really didn't understand that he could sign his own book then the discussion would be a bit different.

 

Either way, rather than rescinding the rank, I'd recommend the Scoutmaster put the onus on the scout to show that he has mastered the skills in question to really earn the rank, and that he is trustworthy. Second class shouldn't be forthcoming until these issues are rectified. Maybe a question to the boy like "How can you demonstrate that you have the skills you say you have?" Or even "what do you think is the right thing to do now?" If he needs some prompting, how about having him plan and lead some skill segments of upcoming troop meetings (have him go through his plans with somebody first before presenting).

 

 

[desertrat77]

The rank should be rescinded.

 

Whatever his motives, he is at the right age to learn the consequences for this behavior. No need to humilate him. If handled properly, he will gain an important life lesson.

 

Better he learn to stop the habit now instead of getting nabbed for bogus data on an Eagle app, or a college app, or a resume.

 

I've found that scouts are far more balanced on these matters than their parents. Explain the behavior, the effects, and the consequences, and the vast majority of the scouts will agree and take the situation in stride. Mom and/or dad, that's another matter. They are often the ones that will get emotional and argumentative. To me, this was the most difficult aspect of serving at troop level--sometimes, the kids have a more mature outlook on life than their parents.

 

 

[SMT224]

I'm a bit amazed that the Scoutmaster didn't catch this - did he not look at the book & signatures and talk to the Scout about his advancement?

 

But anyway, I agree that the first thing to happen is a SMC. It may well have been that the Scout didn't understand he was not supposed to sign his own book. First thing is to set him straight on that, and let him know very clearly who can sign off on a requirement. Then, go over the requirements and see if he needs more work, or if he truly earned the requirement.

 

Unless it's absolutely clear that he did it intentionally, I would not make this a capital crime, nor would I hang him out in front of the Troop or make any of this known to the other Scouts. It could be that he is a very enthusiastic Scout and was just totally gung-ho on moving forward. If a scene is made for no reason, he could be profoundly embarrassed and quit Scouting.

 

 

[mbrigham]

Thank you both for your reply.

 

This advancement has been filed with the local council. It is probably too late to rescind.

 

We will visit with the committee about meeting with this scout about his decisions. The scouts are instructed about not having parents sign off their requirements upon joining the troop. He is aware that he can not sign off his requirements as well. Your suggestions are one way to hold him accountable without totally humiliating the scout.

[NickP412]

Does he know hes not supposed to sign his own book? before we jump to conclusions can I ask what he signed himself off on? Maybe he took boy-lead the wrong way? If the patrol leader, a fellow peer of this boy, can sign his book maybe he thought he could too?

 

I know when I crossed over I didnt sign my own book but i did something some what similar. I thought my whittling chit let me carry a knife, and that the toten chit was for boys who weren't cubs. I took my knife to the my first camp out and was then corrected by my SPL.

 

I didnt know any better maybe he didnt either.

 

However if this was a attempt to pull the wool over your eyes and steal a rank then id send it into council as stated before.

[jhankins]

We had an Eagle candidate like this last night! His Family Life, Personal Mgmt and Personal Fitness were all signed off in his book, but when we looked at his scoutnet printout -- they weren't done!

 

He claimed it was a clerical error, so now we're waiting to see what's up with that before we accuse him of anything wrong.

[ScoutNut]

This is not all on the Scout.

 

Where are the checks and balances in this Troop?

 

Where was the SM? Where was the Advancement Chair? Where was his PL? How did he pass his BOR if he could not tell them anything about what he did to earn Tenderfoot?

 

Yes, the Scout must be counseled, and held accountable, but there are problems within this Troop that need fixing too.

 

 

[lrsap]

Just on the surface, I'm leaning towards misunderstanding rather than anything devious. The fact that some of the dates are prior to bridging makes me think about the TF requirements. A lot of them would be done by a Webelos earning his AOL. So he may have been going through the book saying, "Hey, I did that. That too! Cool!" If he were actually trying to pull the wool over someone's eyes, I suspect the entries would have looked different.

 

Not being critical, but just asking. When you say he is aware they do not sign off on their own advancement, does that mean you know he knows, or was it announced? The reason I ask is I have an 11YO soon to be TF myself. He's a great, bright, straight A (WHOOPS, dad brag, sorry) but I'm sometimes AMAZED at what I have to repeat 2 or 3 times before it sinks in.

 

 

[rdclements]

Your comment about discussing this matter with the committee concerns me. This can easily be handled through the Scoutmaster conference process and the good suggestions made in this thread. If this becomes a committee matter, you run the risk of damaging this scout's reputation beyond repair. You could also be inviting the committee to get engaged in Scoutmaster business and it only takes a day of watching this forum to see how that can go.

 

-R

[Beavah]

Yah, yeh sit with the lad, have a chat, explain things, get his assent.

 

And yeh have him surrender the rank.

 

Mistake, misunderstanding, deliberate fraud, whatever. Da reason doesn't matter. If yeh didn't legitimately graduate from college, yeh shouldn't put it on your resume. If yeh didn't legitimately earn Tenderfoot, yeh don't wear it on your uniform.

 

It's one of those honor things, eh? Best learned early and often.

 

If it really was deliberate fraud yeh might also have other consequences. If not, it's just a private thing. No reason to get the committee involved, and yeh can leave it on file with council if yeh want, just repeating everything else in-troop. Won't matter having his date be earlier on da Scoutnet Records.

 

Beavah

 

[BadenP]

I agree with Beavah, the boy should learn their are consequences to his action and the handbook does state who should sign his handbook. I also concur that there seems to be a serious gap in the check and balance system among the troop leaders which needs to be corrected.

 

Another point, even if the rank has been reported to council it can still be rescinded and council can change the record in the system, especially in cases of fraud which this incident would be classified under even if that was not the intent of the boy.

[perdidochas]

I agree with beavah as well.

 

Also, if the former WDL is now a ASM, you might want to talk to him about it. Maybe he let the kids sign their own stuff in Webelos.

 

 

[mbrigham]

As a point of clarification, we have a scoutmaster in his first year of service. I also do not expect him or the committee to re-test any scout on each of the requirements for advancement. As a committee member we do ask questions about a scout's advancement but not each and every requirement. As a committee member I am interested in how the troop is deliverying the promise to the boys in the troop, what we can do to make the troop better from the boy's perspective- basically serving as a quality control check for the troop.

 

As a committee member, I became aware of this situation because the ASM for this patrol noted that the scout had placed inaccurate dates and the initials of the other ASM assigned to this patrol. The scout did not put his initials, therefore the scout did not sign off his own requirments.

 

We have never included the patrol leader as a part of the review of a scout for advancement. Some scouts could have several patrol leaders before making a rank advancement. That could be difficult to have involve each patrol leader. Do you have them speak to living the scout oath and law? Not all patrol leaders go on campouts or are able to attend every troop meeting.