Signature of unit leader on Blue card

[hendrickms24]

I check the search option to see if this was asked before but did not see it. I'm the new Scoutmaster for my son's troop and I want to know if its okay for me to sign the Signature of unit leader on the blue card for my own son? I'm not going to be the Merit badge counselor for any of my son's Merit badges because I know it's a big no no.

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Mark M.

 

[John-in-KC]

You're the Scoutmaster.

 

You're the guy who assigns Scouts to Merit Badge Counselors. Your signature, on the "Application for Merit Badge" portion, signifies you have agreed with Billy that taking SCUBA is appropriate for him. It also means you've assigned him a Counselor and written in the contact data on the back side.

 

Now, when the badge comes back, there are two places for adult info:

- On the application part, there are initials for your Advancement Person. When I was a unit advancement coordinator, that was for when I put the badge into Troopmaster and printed off an advancement report.

 

- On the middle part, there's a signature of counselor and signature of unit leader. The Counselor's signature signs off on completion. The Unit Leader's signature is a promise to the Scout that the badge will be processed forthwith.

 

When we follow the system, when Scoutmasters do their part by knowing the folks in the District and properly assigning Counselors, the signatures are visible symbols of our participation in the process.

 

Sorry for the long-winded answer... yes, you are not only Dad, you are his Scoutmaster. You may sign. If he needs some space from you, then you may choose to ask an ASM to do those things for you for him.

[hendrickms24]

Thanks John

[eghiglie]

If your the SM you are the Unit Leader and your allowed to sign. There are no rules that prevent it, but be careful, because other people's perception is their reality.

 

In my troop I only act as the MBC for my son in group badges and both my son and I make sure he is not the first one done.

 

That said, in his 36 badges I have only been his MBC twice. In both those cases I had another adult sign off as unit leader.

 

 

[bpaul]

John-in-KC,

I have a question for you with regards to your statement "It also means you've assigned him a Counselor and written in the contact data on the back side"

 

Can you please clarify that statement? Why is the SM assigning a counselor? I thought it was up to the boy to acquire the counselor of his choosing (of course as long as they are a recognized MB counselor by the council).

 

Does it matter whether the counselor is one from the scout's home unit, another unit, or maybe through one of the council's sponsored programs, such as a Merit Badge University, Winter Camp, or an event that is done in coordination with local organizations such as the local model railroad association, for the railroading MB, or with some CPAs for the Personal Management MB, etc?

 

Does that imply that the SM can say to a boy, "Sorry, but I will not approve you using that particular method/counselor, you must use MB counselor Mr. X instead?"

 

I most definitely don't mean this to be argumentative, but I just want clarification. I could see this spiraling out of control if a SM decided to go that route, or steer boys towards or away from particular events.

 

As a side note, my troop currently has very young Scouter leadership right now, and our SM will read the SM handbook and say "Well, the handbook says "it is up to the SM for **fill in the blank.**" And I can see our SM using that to say something like "Sorry Johnny Scout, but I won't approve you taking that MB through that particular avenue, I want you to take it with a local counselor instead."

 

Thank you for taking the time to educate those of us who are still trying to learn how to do things the right way.

[Eamonn]

bpaul

As you might be able to tell from the accent, I'm not John-in-KC! He talks funny!!

For some little time now John has mentioned that the SM is the "Gatekeeper".

To be honest I kinda thought he was full of it! (Sorry John.)

The way I thought the system was to work (And I should add that I was wrong and John is right!) was that:

The Scout decided what badge he wanted to work on. (That was and still is right.)

He went to the SM and informed him that he wanted to work on that badge. (That bit is still right.)

Now for the bit that I got wrong! The SM then handed the Scout a copy of the Merit Badge list and the Scout selected a MB Counselor.

This is not the way it should be done!

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/BoyScouts/GuideforMeritBadgeCounselors.aspx

States:

A Scout first expresses an interest in a particular merit badge by letting his unit leader know. To get him started, the leader may give him a signed Application for Merit Badge (blue card) along with the name and telephone number of a district/council approved merit badge counselor. The Scout then contacts the merit badge counselor and makes an appointment. The merit badge counselor sets a date and time to meet with the Scout and his buddy, and may suggest the Scout bring the merit badge pamphlet along with the blue card.

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/boyscouts/advancementandawards/meritbadges.aspx

States:

Talk to your Scoutmaster about your interests. Read the requirements of the merit badges you think might interest you. Pick one to earn. Your Scoutmaster will give you the name of a person from a list of counselors. These counselors have special knowledge in their merit badge subjects and are interested in helping you.

 

You are of course right when you say "of course as long as they are a recognized MB counselor by the council"

A approved counselor is an approved counselor and it shouldn't make any difference if they belong to the Troop or not.

It does now seem that the SM has the last word about which Counselors will and will not be used.

I'm not sure if this is a good or a bad thing? Or if it really is a big deal or not?

Time will tell.

Eamonn

(So John, I'm sorry for ever doubting you! Even if you do talk funny!)

[John-in-KC]

Hi, E and thanks!!! Yep, I speak Californian in Missouri, dude...

 

IF everything worked consistently right, it wouldn't matter that Mom or Dad was MBC for 1 or two badges. Scoutmasters would have depth charts of qualfied people in their units.

 

T'ain't NEVER happened that way, folks

 

I can remember as a youth wanting to earn Railroading MB so bad I could taste it, and there was never a Counselor for it in the San Fernando Valley Council. One time I was so excited to see a name... I called him that afternoon, to see if he was around: "Sorry, son, Council goofed. I've never done Railroading."

 

So... I never earned railroading

 

If there is one thing these boards in particular have taught me, it's that the adult side of Scouting clicks when we all work together. Unlike he who is of a WB PAtrol whose name tastes like Chicken , I do think we should challenge assertions.

 

Scroll through the tales here of Billy coming to Mr SMith and saying "Here's my blue card, I earned ZZZ MB." Scoutmasters, as the program guys for their units, accept a tremendous burden in love... to help raise our young charges. How can the SM do what he needs to do if he doesn't know Billy is out earning a MB? How can he steer Billy away from Mr Jackguy, who gives the MB away? How can he steer Billy away from Mr Blacksmith, who has his own requirements for Metalworking MB?

 

So, yes, I say the Scoutmaster is the gatekeeper... the standards he sets in program help quality happen.

[evmori]

Perfectly fine.

[raisinemright]

Minor thread hijack in progress.

 

Here's the scenario:

 

My son was working on his backpacking badge, which took two summers to get completed. After the last trip, he called his counselor who informed him that he was retired. Since I have a copy of the MB Counselor list, I gave him the name of another MBC. No answer. Another-disconnected, another-retired, another-disconnected. He finally got to a counselor and got it signed off.

 

If we had gone the standard route, SM would have issued five separate blue cards with the name of a MBC and taken a week to get each one to my son.

 

Is it time to come up with a better way of connecting with MBC's?

[Buffalo Skipper]

We have had issues in our council with MBC records, and they are working to resolve this (in fact they have, for now). I see the responsibility of assigning MBCs as being more than pulling a name from a hat. I want to ensure that the MBC is a good match for Johnny scout. As such, like to have a 3 minute conversation with the MBC before I refer a scout to him. "How long have you been a conselor for Beekeeping?" "What is your expertise with bees?" "Have you been through MBC training?" "How much do you charge for a quart of Honey?"

 

I often choose MBCs whom I know (as an active district trainer and recent member of the DC, I probably know 1/3 of the district MBCs personally), but even if it is a friend, I call before I assign a counselor. A good example is 3 weeks ago, I called a friend who's wife is MBC for Personal Management. She was already working with 4 scouts from a variety of troops and did not want to take on 3 more all at once, so I found another for our Life scouts.

 

I just try to take a very proactive approach to this. I also keep a log of which Blue Cards have been given to which scouts and when. It only takes a minute to do this, so it is not a big deal. Shouldn't some of this be done by an the committee Advancement Coordinator? Prehaps, but I like to take a hand's on approach. As our troop grows, it will be necessary to spread this out some, but for now I can handle it.

[kenk]

In my view its all about the Scouts learning and experiencing (not only the MB, but the experience of meeting and getting to know the MB counselor - a person he may not have met before), and it shouldn't turn into any kind of power trip or similar.

 

I hope the SM doesn't use that blue card sign-off as a way to control whether or not the boy can try to earn the MB. I hope the SM would offer the boy (and likely his parents) the names of several potential MB counselors (if available). Just choosing a counselor may be an experience or lesson-learned in itself.

 

I am the advancement coordinator & an ASM in my son's troop. A Scout is told that if he wants to earn a MB he can either talk to the SM or myself. Be both have the MB Counselor list, have blue cards, and will sign that first page. We don't keep any kind of record of which Scouts are working on which MBs, unless they are the group MB sessions our troop hosts/runs - and even then, we really leave it up to the counselors to keep track of that.

 

I know that isn't the exact process described in the publications, but that's what we do, and I think it meets the intent of BSA (an ASM signs instead of the SM) and it meets the needs of the Scouts.

 

When the MB is done, they turn the blue card (usually minus the counselor's section) in to me (the advancement coordinator). I sign the Scout's section and give it back to him, and then I record the MB into TroopMaster and initial/date the troop's section.

 

Now, for something I'm not entirely sure of ... I've always assumed that the Scout meets with the MB counselor, and gives the blue card to the counselor. That is pretty universal.

 

Does the MB Counselor hold on to the blue card while the Scout is completing requirements and use it to capture/track the completion of the requirements> Then, once all of the requirements are completed, the counselor signs the sections of the blue card, keeps the counselor section, and gives the Scout+Troop sections back to the Scout to be turned in to the troop. I would think if the Scout chooses to switch to a new MB counselor - for whatever reason - they should ask for the blue card back.

 

OR, does the counselor hand the blue card back to the Scout at the end of each meeting, and the Scout keeps the blue card throughout - much as they keep their Handbook while working on rank requirements.

 

Do the counselors you've worked with keep the cards while the MB is in progress? Or does the Scout keep the card and bring it to each meeting with the counselor? What is your own preference?

 

After writing this I find myself leaning toward the Scout keeping the blue card, but to be honest, I worry that the Scout will loose the blue card, and thus lose critical records. It might just be safer to have the counselor keep it. But, then again, the Scout keeping the blue card and protecting it is yet another learning/growing process in itself isn't it?

 

Ken K.

[kenk]

BuffaloSkipper,

 

I couldn't agree with you more, and, as an advancement coordinator, I WISH I knew more about the counselors outside my son's troop ... but for the most part I don't.

 

If a Scout says he wants to earn the Railroading MB, I won't call around and interview the Railroading MB counselors. I just won't do it. I don't have the time to do it.

 

The reality is that unless the troop has some prior experience with a particular counselor (and since that is usually an activity that happens with only the Scout(s) and the counselor (and maybe a sibling or parent attending for youth protection), I don't think we even get to know the non-troop counselors. So picking a counselor is usually picking names out of a hat, though its often based on the proximity of the counselor to the Scout's home.

 

Who's job is it to make sure MB counselors meet the skill requirements?

 

According to the Advancement Committeee Policies & Procedures (the Advancement Guide Book)it is the Council Advancement Committee's duty to "Approve merit badge counselors and publish council and/or district merit badge counselor lists."

 

It goes on to say that the Committee should "Help the troop to identify parents, committee members, and other qualified individuals to serve as merit badge counselors by using the Troop Resource Survey and the Parent and Family Talent Survey. The district merit badge counselors list will supplement the troops list."

 

It also says "They must be men and women of good character, age 18 or older, and recognized as having the skills and education in the subjects for which they are to serve as merit badge counselors, as well as having the ability to work with Scoutage boys.", but it doesn't specifically say who should make sure they have the skills & education in the subject(s).

 

The Troop Committee Guide Book says that the Troop Advancement Coordinator should "Develop and maintain a merit badge counselor list." It doesn't really say anything about recruiting, reviewing, or approving MB counselors, but it seems that all adult leaders could take some part in that activity.

 

Ken

[evmori]

If we had gone the standard route, SM would have issued five separate blue cards with the name of a MBC and taken a week to get each one to my son.

 

No he wouldn't. And if he did, so what?

[John-in-KC]

couldn't agree with you more, and, as an advancement coordinator, I WISH I knew more about the counselors outside my son's troop ... but for the most part I don't.

 

Attend Roundtable. Get to know the other Scouters in your District!!! That's how you get to know the other MB Counselors. How many of us are MBCs as one of our Scouting hats?

 

If we had gone the standard route, SM would have issued five separate blue cards with the name of a MBC and taken a week to get each one to my son.

 

No he wouldn't. And if he did, so what?

 

I'm agreeing with Ed here...

 

No, if a boy has a MBC drop out of the system on him, a quick call to the SM, at his home, should do it. Heck, how many times did I sleep over with a friend in my Troop, whose Dad was SM?

 

We don't have to make this too hard. Once Mr SM knows Billy's working a MB, the change should be a matter of a phone call or even a text.

 

(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

[acco40]

I've been a Scoutmaster for over 7 years. According to our district advancement chair (and I agree), I'm the only one who is suppose to have a list of the district MBCs. No, it is not for power. It makes sure that I know currently registered MBCs, it allows me to be a gate keeper to steer clear of so-so MBCs.

 

What bothered me was the amount of Scouts who approached me with blue cards, never signed by me, all filled out by the MBC as completed (usually the mother of another Scout in the troop). Now, I'm in the difficult position of not awarding the Scout his MB or effectively encouraging such behavior. C'est la vi.