Advancement tidbits from PTC

[AlFansome]

 

After talking with a few attendees at the Advancement conference at PTC, here are a few things that National is considering (according to a National advancement person who spoke to the class).

 

Other than what I've listed below, I have no details other than National is considering the following:

 

1) Combining "Citizenship in the Community" and "Citizenship in the Nation" into a single "Citizenship in the United States" merit badge. Then, using the freed up Eagle-required slot, making "Cooking" an Eagle-required badge.

 

At the same time, add more "life skills" cooking requirements to the badge. It's unclear if the new requirements would add to or replace current requirements.

 

2) Moving some/most/all of Tenderfoot skill requirements down to Webelos and Arrow of Light. The idea being that when Webelos w/ AOL cross-over, they'd get Tenderfoot instead of the Scout badge. (Editorial comment: I think this is a stinker of an idea...T-2-1 is already too compressed with inadequate skill development in many cases, not to mention even younger Eagles)

 

3) Girls, girls, girls: An early, exploratory effort to consider a progam for Scout-age girls using basically the same program as for Boy Scouts.

 

Like I said, no more concrete info than that, but interesting to see what is being looked at.

 

 

 

 

[Eagle92]

I like the idea of combining ciCom and CiNat and makign Cooking eagle required. Don't know what else they could add, inless they add microwaving stuff which I feel wouldn't be right as Scouting is outing. Plus if you can cook over an open flame, you can microwave.

 

I concur about moving tenderfoot skills to Webelos. T-2-1 doesn't focus enough on the basics IMHO.

 

Girls in Scouting, didn't think I woulds see it in my lifetime, but it has happened elsewhere.

 

[frank10]

I hope they do not merge C in the Community with C in Nation. Two completely different badges. And each is packed. Something would have to be lost to combine them.

 

 

[John-in-KC]

As I recall, Cit in Community and Cit in Nation were indeed combined back in my youth (well it might have been Cit in World). I'd not mind seeing C&N merged into a BIG merit badge. It would sure take it out of the MB Mill category

 

As most here know, I've been an advocate of Cooking returning to the Eagle list since I joined this board.

 

Actually, I'd like to see T-2-1, in terms of skills, approach the difficulty that it had in the 1959 and 1965 manuals.

 

PS: Thanks for identifying sources of your info, vice a certain poster who was there last year, and didn't give context to his posts... playing STUMP THE CHUMP with us.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

[gwd-scouter]

I like the idea of combining the citizenship badges and adding cooking as a required badge. Moving the tenderfoot requirements to Arrow of Light is a bad idea though. I wouldn't want to pass a guy off automatically as knowing the buddy system, the Oath and Law, basics of cooking, first aid, etc. just because he earned the AOL. Many guys I've seen over the years who wear an AOL patch don't actually know much about what they were supposed to know to earn it. Eager Webelos Den Leaders, you know.

 

 

[mdlscouting]

I wouldn't mind seeing a bit mre emphasis on that sort of stuff in Webelos. I have no opinion/experience on whether or not it should count for Tenderfoot though. But it might not be a horrible idea to "double cover" some of those items.

[Eagle92]

WAhooker,

 

The problem I see with AOL= tenderfoot automatically is that some packs will just give the AOL away. I hate to say it doesn't happen, but it does.

 

Now i don't know the 69 and 65 requirements, I need to look them up, and I know it may be sacrilege for me to say what i am about to say, but growing up with Skill Awards from the '80s, I think BSA screwed by distributing the requirements throughout T-2-1 and also watered down some of the requirements. that's my opinion, as well as the opinion of several other scouters who also grew up in the 80s.

[John-in-KC]

You see, I was a Scout in the 60s/early 70s, before the !@#$%^ skill awards.

 

Tenderfoot was some basics. Second Class concentrated on hiking (in fact, I had to do 3 5 milers to qualify!) First Class concentrated on camping skills.

 

You advanced sequentially. None of this sign off on a First Class requirement whilst a Scout.

 

I'm not saying they have to change, I'm reporting how it was.

[eagle90]

Re; T-2-1 to AOL

 

How many Webelos leaders and Cub parents have the necessary skills to teach the T-2-1 requirements? I would hate to rely on their knowledge and experience to pass a Webelo on these essential skills that they will need the whole time they are Scouts.

[evmori]

I like the Citizenship combo.

 

I don't like the idea of AOL = Tenderfoot. Like Eagle92 posted, some Packs give away AOL's. There is a natural progression to T-2-1 and eliminating the 1st step only makes the 2nds step a a lot bigger. And chance that 1st step was ever taken at the Webelos level is doubtful.

[GernBlansten]

Moving Tenderfoot to cubs just makes sense considering the path scouting is taking. Outdoors skills are taking precious management theory time from Boy Scouts. Now we can spend more time on WB style leadership development instead of that dirty, icky woodsy stuff. And for the poor scout who wasn't a cub, well, is he really going to use those outdoor skills in real life? Probably not. Not like your indoor leadership skills.

[gwd-scouter]

Nice one, Gern.

[FScouter]

If Tenderfoot skills are "moved" to Webelos, the rank should be moved there as well. It would be absurd for a Cub to "learn" skills in Cubs, and get an automatic "cross-over" rank.

[Eagle92]

Eagle90 has a very good point in that by having Webelos sign of on the skills, they would need to have the IOLS training to do some of that. Only way I see tha

 

Gern also makes a good point as the Mazucca interview scares me. Didn't we try something like this in the 70s, and had to bring back Green Bar Bill from retirement to solve the problem? I don't think we can bring him back from the dead?

 

This is the worse idea I've heard of form national

 

[Lisabob]

I wonder about the Webelos requirement idea.

 

On one hand, if this is an attempt to beef up the "boy scout skills" aspect of the Webelos program, then that is a laudable goal, although maybe this isn't the best way to do it.

 

On the other hand, if this is an attempt to dumb down the actual boy scouting program in an attempt to make it easier for boys to earn 1st Cl quickly upon crossing over, then that suggests that somebody doesn't understand the problem of why scouts drop out in their first year. I don't think making Tenderfoot automatic will solve anything regarding membership issues, and in fact it might make things worse.

 

Overall, I do not think many Webelos DLs have the necessary skills - and I don't think they're going to get them from a one or two day Webelos Outdoor Leader Training session either - to do this well. I think a lot of WDLs would end up signing off on things without the boys really knowing them (or worse, the boys' parents would! Akela and all that). That would set up the boys for either serious disappointment and disillusionment when they get into boy scouts where they would discover they don't know what they thought they did - necessitating a remedial program in most troops for cross-overs who lack fundamental skills but were "socially promoted" anyway - or it would simply further erode the skill base of your typical boy scout.

 

But let's assume (dangerous, I know) for a moment that this rumor is really based upon national's desire to enhance the webelos program, and not to tear down the tenderfoot rank requirements.

 

If that's the actual goal, how best to achieve it, other than cannibalizing the boy scout ranks? Maybe there are some specific things those of you who either are/were Webelos DLs, or who work with new crossovers on a regular basis, would like to see changed, added, or subtracted? (Maybe this needs to spin off - feel free to do so)