The Late Returning Boy Scout

[John-in-KC]

In another thread, FScouter quoted a BSA wesite, thusly:

 

There is a more to "active" than being registered. BSA does say a boy must be registered, but goes on to specify more. See

http://www.scouting.org/boyscouts/resources/mbc/rank.html

 

Here''''s an answer provided in a Q&A about advancement:

Question: For the Star, Life, and Eagle Scout ranks, how is "Be active in your troop and patrol" defined?

Answer: A Scout is considered to be active in his unit if:

 

1. He is registered in his unit (registration fees are current).

2. He has not been dismissed from his unit for disciplinary reasons.

3. He is engaged by his unit leadership on a regular basis (Scoutmaster conference, informs the Scout of upcoming unit activities, through personal contact, and so on).

 

The unit leaders are responsible for maintaining contact with the Scout on a regular basis. The Scout is not required to attend any certain percentage of activities or outings. However, unit leaders must ensure that he is fulfilling the obligations of his assigned leadership position. If he is not, then they should remove the Scout from that position.

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You haven''t seen this young man since he was just over 14. In fact, you dropped him from the Charter the year he would be 16, because a call to home said "I''m done with Scouts."

 

He was a Life Scout when he dropped, and while he hadn''t signed off Spirit or SM conference, the SM at the time had signed off his POR.

 

He shows up at a Troop meeting, about a month past his 17th birthday. He''s not a true "deathbed Eagle candidate" (that would be the boy who shows up 10 days before he ages out of Personal Fitness/Management and Family Life), but he''s not been steady on the trail either.

 

Now, he wants to rejoin and earn his Eagle.

 

What do you tell this young man? Why? Do you consider, as Beavah has suggested, not accepting his application? If so, why?

 

Remember: His obligation is to pay dues and not be a disciplinary problem. Our obligation as Scouters is to engage him.

 

This is a true open-ended question, and it is not tied to any boy in my own unit. I have one deathbedder who has stayed on the books, but whenever I ask him about when he''ll start his "Big 3" MBs, he tells me he''s not ready to start his logs. It''ll be a moot point in 45 days, when he breaches the 90 day line from his 18th birthday.

[Gunny2862]

I think it''s really no different than the two I have right now who are insisting on riding the line all the way out.

 

It''s their opportunity, but when they wind up on the wrong side of the dateline it fails to be my problem, since/if the opportunity was provided by the troop to do it in a timely fashion. Some may say that it reflects badly on the Scouters when a boy doesn''t Eagle, if that is so why isn''t our Eagle completion 100%? I say it reflects badly on the Scouters if we don''t provide someone the opportunity - It remains up to the Scout to capitalize on it.

 

As far as accepting him back, I''m in favor of doing so - people change. But I''m also not going to chase him into completion, he should already be aware of his new timeline and if not, I''d counsel him on what he''s let himself in for by dropping out and coming back this late. But after that it''s up to him to get it done. Of course I''d also like to see him actively camping and assisting the younger Scouts and not just doing "his requirements" as part of the Scout Spirit bit.

[hot_foot_eagle]

It''s certainly possible for a young man to gain enough maturity to know he wants to complete his Eagle. It''s equally possible that mom and or dad is the sole source of "motivation". I say encourage the late bloomers, but the onus is on them to follow through.

 

 

[anarchist]

Don''t you know that its always the scouters fault for not nursing a scout through at the last minute to Eagle...never the scouts fault...:>)

 

That said, If the young man still desires to join I would have a full blown BoR outside of a normal troop meeting night...complete with your CC and the SM on the side. I would make it a real job interview...If he can not answer questions such as "Why should the troop expend energy and assets on him?"... (after all he was the one who said he was "done with Scouting"), Or "What (efforts, energy and time) will he bring to the "table" (troop)" if your committee allows him to join...If it is, as I suspect really about punching his ticket and filling out a line on his college resume it should become fairly clear...If when you ask him about is readiness to attend meetings and campouts you get "yes, buts" or other evasions I would not waste any more time.

If he does not commit to doing more than just working on his Eagle requiremnts I would hand him back his application and suggest he find another troop...At this stage you are not adding to his requirements after all -he is not one of your scouts. And assuming that you only have a finite amount of time and energy; he is, after all, asking that you "take away" from the others in the troop...for his needs...he should be willing to pay it back...right?

 

In the grand picture of things, I have come to see the whole process as using your troop assets where they can do the most good for the most boys...It is probably wrong (and others here will tell me so) but I no longer feel an obligation to go through the work and effort for "fakes, frauds and lost souls", when there are plenty of hard working scouts who need, appriciate and deserve my time and attention.

must be getting old...

Anarchist

 

 

[Eamonn]

Yet again let me voice my complete and utter annoyance about the term "Deathbed Eagle."

This game isn''t rocket science.

A Scout either meets the requirements or he doesn''t.

If a Lad has met a requirement there is no way it can be "Un-met"

If the requirement requires a set amount of time and the time needed can''t be met,he of course can''t meet the requirement.

Surely our role as leaders is to serve the kids who become Scouts? When we place unnecessary hurdles in their way we are not serving them we are in fact harming them.

I would welcome the Lad back with open arms and sit down with him while he worked on his plan to meet his goals.

The Eagle Scout Rank will belong to him, it is his how he gets there is also up to him.

Of course not being around for an extended amount of time isn''t going to make life easy. But that was his choice.

Eamonn.

[Beavah]

Yah, I understand Eamonn thinkin'' it''s about requirements. He''s right about the rank. I think I disagree, though, about that bein'' da answer for KC''s question. I think it''s about character and personal growth.

 

I think yeh look at the individual case, talk to the lad and the parents, and look carefully at your resources da way anarchist suggests. And yeh make your best judgment.

 

Having watched this a lot, I have this observation:

 

If a boy is coming back in order to get Eagle, then it''s not worth it for the troop or for him. You''ll almost certainly fail in the mission of building character. Just ain''t enough time to get da lad and his parents past the selfishness bit of "getting" an award by imposin'' on others. Takes time to get back in da habit of a life of service and leadership that patch is supposed to represent.

 

If a boy is coming back in order to be involved again in Scouting, then it''s worth considerin'' welcoming him back. You''ve got a good chance at success in the mission of building character - and renewing friendships, and developing leadership skills and perhaps a long term service to Scouting. Rank, Eagle or otherwise, shouldn''t even really come up. Maybe there''ll be a chance of him doin'' enough to deserve the Eagle rank, but dat''s really secondary and down the road a bit. He should be returning to Scouting for Scouting''s sake - for what he can learn, and what he can give... not for what he can get.

 

Beavah

 

[John-in-KC]

I appreciate the thoughts so far. Each has put careful thought into their comments. Thank you

 

I''ll be honest, I''ve not reached my own conclusion on this issue yet. The reasoned thoughts of others, I trust, will at some point resonate with me to gel my own thoughts.

 

 

[Hunt]

I would disagree with Beavah a little bit--while I agree that if the goal is "getting Eagle" because it''s a resume-builder, then I think it''s reasonable to resist going the extra mile for the boy. However, I can imagine a boy who returns with a consciousness that he has left undone something that is important to him, and that he wants to make it right before it''s too late. I would support a boy if I believed that was really his motivation. I think the idea of a really in-depth discussion with the boy before allowing him to rejoin is a pretty good idea.

[Vicki]

Based on what''s given in your hypothetical, I would say take him back. Period. Of course, as with any entering Scout, you would have a SM conference to determine motivations, interests, etc. Besides, advancement (Eagle) is only one of the methods.

 

Our responsibility is to leave our arms wide open. I like B-P''s quote, "Use patience, like the West African catching a monkey. He says, ''No good try run and grab him. No, sir; softly, softly catchee monkey.''"

 

Vicki

[evmori]

I like the idea anarchist posted. This puts the onus on the Scout to convince the unit leadership why he should be allowed back in the unit. It''s not always the adult leadership who is at fault! I know there are some who feel that way.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Vicki]

Interesting defensive attitude running as a subplot to this thread. I don''t believe anyone said anything about the adult leadership being "at fault." They stayed in contact, scout said, "I quit," he''s dropped from charter. Done. Scout wants to come back. Cool, again, done. SM conference, POR (scout either meets requirement or not), done.

 

Eamonn''s post works for me - why unnecessary hurdles? It''s not about me as an adult - I''m in it for longer than this kid has been around or will be around. Blip on my radar either way (although obviously I feel better about the blips that achieve some measure of success in some of the aims).

 

Vicki

[Eamonn]

Not sure if this is relevant or not?

We have a really great Lad in the Ship.

Has been and technically is a member of a Troop. (I have no idea why they keep him on their charter.)

As I say he is a great Lad. About the most active Sea Scout we have. He is 16 years old.

Before not being active in the Troop he was SPL.

From what I know, nothing happened he just kinda "Out-grew" the Troop.

For about a year while he was happy to participate in everything the Ship did. He wasn''t showing any real interest or ambition in advancement.

This past summer he went to work at a camp in Georgia. While he was there he passed the time taking a few merit badges.

He returned wanting to see about being accepted by the US Coast Guard Academy and really keen on completing his Eagle Scout rank. He is also showing a lot of interest in Quartermaster, but right now the Eagle rank is within reach.

Whatever happened this past summer has changed his outlook.

I wasn''t there so I don''t know if someone or something made him have a change of heart?

When we met I mentioned that he could return to the Troop and complete the Eagle Scout requirements. In fact I was hoping he would -That is about me being lazy and not wanting to have a foot in both programs!!

He wouldn''t go for it.

Maybe he sees being an Eagle Scout as being useful when the time comes to apply for the USCG Academy?

Maybe he wants to use the time he put in up until now?

Maybe a lot of things?

We have talked and he understands that there is no way that I''m going to push him. He knows I didn''t push OJ!!

The way I see it is that he needed time to come up with what he wanted and find out where he is going or wants to go.

My role is to help and support him.

I''m really happy that he made up his mind.

If becoming an Eagle Scout is a stepping stone?

I''m happy to let him step on. My hope is that along the way he finds out more about himself. Of course I really like the Lad and will offer the friendly kick in the pants as is needed.

Eamonn.

 

 

[Vicki]

Eamonn wrote: My role is to help and support him.

I''m really happy that he made up his mind.

If becoming an Eagle Scout is a stepping stone?

I''m happy to let him step on.

 

There ya go. Eamonn said it much nicer than I did. And if the stone is slippery and he needs a hand for balance, I''ll be there.

 

Vicki

[Beavah]

Eamonn''s post works for me - why unnecessary hurdles? It''s not about me as an adult - I''m in it for longer than this kid has been around or will be around.

 

Yah, I can answer that, eh? It''s not about us as adults for anybody posting. It''s about the kids. Not just the one boy, but all of da boys.

 

The question in my mind is always "What is the message we send to the other boys?" If we tell them that Eagle is our highest award, and that it represents character and commitment and loyalty, then the examples we give them of Eagle Scouts better measure up to our fine words. If they don''t, then we hurt those other boys. We diminish the rank in their eyes. We make it OK for them to take off and do other things and then come back to try to squeak by with the minimum. It is something to "get by on" not something to measure up to.

 

Have no doubt, those kids are watching who we hold up to them as being the best that Scouting has to offer. And we adults have to live with that precedent and those remaining kids after that one "blip" goes through, eh?

 

If yeh want Advancement or Eagle to serve da mission of teaching character, then those that receive awards must actually be examples of great character that are recognizable to your scouts. Not "Who''s this John kid who is getting Eagle? Don''t you remember, he was the guy who dropped out as our PL three years ago?"

 

Upholding high expectations for Advancement is a gift we give all the other boys who are comin'' up the trail.

 

So it''s a balance, eh? There''s room for forgiveness and charity, if a boy is really interested in Scouting not just self-interested in getting an award. But that has to be balanced against the needs of the other boys.

 

Beavah

 

[Vicki]

and the other scouts will see if Late Returning Boy Scout lives up to the ideals or not. If he does (through serving a POR, activity, etc.), then they will learn a lesson in how reconciliation works. If he doesn''t, then he doesn''t earn Eagle.

 

Either way, the program wins.

 

Vicki