"Giving" an unearned Eagle

[fgoodwin]

Upon returning from our weekend backpacking campout, during the conversation that teen-age boys typically have about girls, movies, school, etc., one of the boys said the troop "gave" so-and-so his Eagle, meaning in his view the troop cut corners to see that so-and-so (who was about to turn 18 and has a very influential dad in the troop, who is himself an Eagle) satisfied his Eagle requirements.

 

I don't know how it is, but boys have an innate sense of fairness, and when corners are cut, the boys somehow will know it. In the case of the candidate, I think it was obvious to all present that he did not write and get PLC approval on the COH agenda he was reading from to satisfy his remaining Eagle MB requirement (Communications #8, plan and lead a COH or troop campfire).

 

The troop adults allowed him to do this because his was a "special case". I bring this up, not to revisit the young man's Eagle award (the district EBOR passed him and that's that, as far as I'm concerned).

 

My real issue is this: what do I tell that boy who knows (or suspects) that the troop made a "special case" of one boy and obviously cut corners on his behalf? The boy making the comment doesn't have an influential Eagle dad in the troop, and the difference in how the candiate was treated vs. how others are (or will be) treated may cause lingering problems.

 

Fred Goodwin

Alamo Area Council

[Lisabob]

I don't know what I would say to someone else's child. I might tell my own son that a) life isn't always fair and that b) respect (self respect and respect for others) doesn't come from getting a piece of cloth, it comes from living up to the promise that piece of cloth represents. Some people might be satisfied with pretending, but I'd encourage my child to strive for true respect rather than the just the trappings.

 

I think it is tougher to know what to say to other people's kids because you don't want to appear to be supporting rumors or maliciously undermining a kid who (as you said, like it or not) is now an Eagle Scout and what you say to a group of boys will spread quickly. More so if you are a respected leader in their eyes. What you say to your own child is between you and him.

[fgoodwin]

Thanx

 

We have a large troop (75 boys chartered, about 40-50 active on any particular meeting or campout). So if one boy feels this way, I assume others do, too.

 

I don't plan to make an issue of it. But it does seem kinda sad that the best I can say is:

 

(1) Life isn't fair; and

 

(2) its none of your business anyway -- work on your own Eagle and don't worry about what us capricious adults may do

 

I'm not saying that was your advice -- but I think that's how the boys will hear almost anything I have to say. So its probably best to remain silent on this one.

[LongHaul]

First I would talk with the boy about having all the facts and knowing what to do with the facts. First if a special case was made it was by the MBC that awarded the badge not the troop. The boy should carefully read the requirement for Communications merit badge to be sure.

I went on from here with a long explanation of what the requirement is but that is not what I see the point to be in this thread so I deleted it.

Lets not look at trees lets talk forest. There will always be people that try to cut corners. There will always be people that try to get over or get by the requirement, be it scouts, school or life. We cant let their attitude, lack of character, and disregard for the Award itself influence our decisions or actions. I stopped at Life Scout because I didnt want to be associated with my troops Eagle Scout Patrol, they had become snobs and two where in the class with fgoodwins example. Biggest mistake of my life!! Tell the boy that he is not responsible for the possible wrong doing and that he should not feel that it diminishes the Eagle Award it only diminishes the boy that got it improperly.

LongHaul

 

[Trevorum]

You don't comment on the new Eagle's character or scouting history. In your opinion - the COH incident notwithstanding - did he deserve to become an Eagle? If so, you could point out to the grumblers that 'everyone deserves a break', and this holds true within scouting as well. The "break" sometimes comes earlier for some guys and later for others (as in this case). Sometime the "break" is not widely known and other times it is (as in this case). As SM I have tried to see the big picture of each Scout's unique situation in helping me determine when to be rigid and when to be flexible with regards to interpretation of requirements. (That being said, I'm generally known as a stickler.)

 

Let he who doesn't want the break for himself throw the first stone.

[jr56]

I have seen several cases of this, and it usually turns out to be half truths and rumors. Whether or not a boy has successfully completed a particular merit badge is between the boy and the merit badge counselor, NOBODY ELSE.

It just seems that when a boy finishes the race, and earns his Eagle, somebody has to be envious of his accomplishment and try to come up with something to degrade it.

[Beavah]

Weird, my last post didn't post. Now I forgot all da cool stuff I said!

 

This is an important thing to understand about the advancement method, eh? When we adults cut corners, give too much "benefit of the doubt" and such trying to get a kid an award, the other scouts who have been listening to us talk about what Eagle is supposed to mean can feel betrayed.

 

I think honesty is always best. If corners were cut or exceptions were made, acknowledge that. If you thought they were justified, share in a non-judgmental way why you thought it was OK. Teens have a keen sense of justice, but they sometimes have to learn how we balance justice with mercy.

 

If you agree with his perceptions, acknowledge that, too. But then talk about how it's hard even for adults to find the right balance, and how rightly or wrongly sometimes people avoid conflict. We support each other even when we think someone made the wrong call.

 

Both should get you in the end to a real measure of character being what we hold ourselves to. Express your confidence in him that he will make it to Eagle "for real" with no corners cut, and in so doing will set a standard and example that will help adults and future kids in the troop do better.

 

Great Scoutmaster be with you in that endeavor. It's hard to repair with words what we have done with actions.

 

Beavah

 

[Gonzo1]

Somehow, the kid, his family and troop will know the truth.

In the U.S. Navy, when a sailor is promoted to the rank of Chief Petty Officer, he (or she) must go through an initiation process lasting about a month. Some silly games, other fraternity like stuff. If a Navy Chief decides to not go through the initiation, word gets around. There is no respect for this individual, respect is earned, not given. Essentially, the non-participating Chief is black-balled.

 

He'll get his own version of being black balled, it will take some time.

 

No kid needs to be a special case. Join at 11, you get 6-7 years, depending on when you join.

[fgoodwin]

LH: I counsel the Communications MB, and am keenly aware of the requirements. I don't know if the doubting Thomas knows them, but if he's been working on his, then he would be able to spot a puppet MC at a glance, and that's just what happened when Eagle was handed a pre-printed COH agenda, and told to read it to meet his requirement. It was painfully obvious to all present that Eage had nothing to do with planning or writing the agenda. He was barely able to read it with a staight face.

 

Nick: suffice it to say, the Eagle's character (or lack thereof) has been a long-running topic of discussion, both among the adults and the Scouts. Another reason why the dad's standing in the troop gives the appearance of overshadowing other rules, requirements and considerations.

 

JR56: agreed, the completion of a MB is between the Scout and his counselor. My issue isn't the alleged completion of the MB, per se. Its how the other boys feel about the short-cuts, and whether they will expect the same short cuts when its their turn.

 

Beavah: thanx, I agree its best to keep the boys focused on their own advancement. Its so easy now to think of what I could or should have said at the time -- instead, I kept silent and let it go by. I still think that might've been the best course after all . . .

 

 

[Venividi]

fgoodwin,

 

Letting it go silent may well result in the problem going away. You likely won't hear anything more from the other boys. You will know that there is an undercurrent view of the adults being unfair with the favoritism that you have described - that wont go away on its own. I saw similar situation in the troop that I worked with. This will simply stay there under the surface until the guys that are aware of it age out and/or they observe that favored treatment stops. You will probably have other scouts and their parents wanting the same type of corner cutting for their sons - I've seen it.

 

I do like Beavah's suggestion for a heart to heart talk with the boy that you overheard talking. You may be able to help ease the view of unfairness, and you may strengthen a bond between you and this boy. You would be sharing and having a meaningful discussion with him, and he will likely trust you more for it.

 

Venividi

[Eamonn]

Hi Fred,

Kinda, sorta had the same problem.

The Cubmaster that followed me, went on to start a Troop. He is a nice man.

His son it seemed never was really interested in Scouts or Scouting.

While he isn't a bad kid, he isn't bright enough not to get caught and always seems to end up in hot water.

He ended up in trouble for having and sending naughty photos of the girls in his school to other kids laptops and cell phones. The local JP didn't think it was very funny and hit him with a fine and a 0800 curfew. All this went down about the same time as he passed his Eagle Scout BOR. Of course no one on the board knew about this.

He gets his Eagle and OJ,who really doesn't like him very much thinks this is wrong. In fact he says that if they will give it to him, they'll give it to anyone and it's not worth having!!

I wasn't on the board and have no idea what the project was or very much about the Lad.Still I in some ways couldn't help but feel OJ had a point.

He has over the years heard me harp on about the difference between earning a badge and it just being an embroidered piece of material.

So that one wasn't going to work!!

I'm not sure but one day we (OJ and I) were talking about a Troop in the District, OJ had gone to do a camp promotion and OA Election. He arrived home saying how bad the Troop was.

Through the OA he has known the SM for a good number of years. He is the nicest guy you will ever meet. He would do anything for anyone. Sadly while I feel he would be a great ASM he just isn't a good SM. He has taken all the training's, in fact he is an Owl from the WB course our council hosted in 1999, I was his Patrol guide. He is a real hard worker, but just doesn't seem able to inspire the Scouts in the Troop.

OJ seemed shocked that I really do like this guy. I explained that while he may not have the skills to be a great SM,he is a great example of what a Scout should be. Sure the Troop never attends Summer Camp because he seems unable to get the Scouts to sign up, sure he has problems with even basic Scout skills, but if ever there was an example of someone doing their best-He is it.

I don't know anything about the Lad who was given his Eagle.

I think maybe we the adults did him wrong by allowing him to slide by. But maybe? Just maybe? What he did was his best?

As a Dad I would hope and expect more from my kid.

As a Skipper I try to not short change the Scouts.

But at times even the most basic requirements are open to interpretation. We have a 16 hour work requirement. I've seen Scouts bust their tails some days. While at other times they pass the time telling jokes and goofing off!

This "Do Your Best" thing is never easy, even when you get it right the bar is raised!!

Eamonn.

[orennoah]

I would talk with the Scouts about the "value" of an Eagle rank. Is it the value to everyone else, or the value to the Eagle himself?

 

For example, I worked my tush off to earn my Woodbadge beads (and even harder to get that third bead!). To me, my beads are a valuable possession, of which I am extremely proud. To me, they represent the overcoming of significant challenges that included unforeseen problems and a whole lot of personal growth.

 

Some other Woodbadgers, not so much. They chose to set goals which were easily and predictably attained. (Attend Roundtable for a few months. Read a book on Scouting. Come on!) They have the same beads I do, but they aren't worth nearly as much.

 

 

[LongHaul]

fgoodwin,

From your initial post I thought the problem was that he didn't get permission from the PLC. Getting permission comes before writing the script. The PLC does not have to OK the script for the merit badge thats up to the MC. The situation you discribe tells me that he didn't write the script whether the PLC approved him to do so or not.

LongHaul

[Trevorum]

Yeah, I misunderstood the gravitas of the situation also. I stand by my belief that everyone deserves a break now and then, but this case sounds like an uneven playing field.

[Aquila calva]

From fgs original postThe boy making the comment doesn't have an influential Eagle dad in the troop..

 

Find an adult in the troop who can work with this scout as an Eagle Coach. Every scout needs someone they feel they can go to for help, guidance and mentoring. It isnt always the SM.

 

Silence is sometimes best because it tells everyone that at that moment you dont have an answer and you arent going to fake it by making stuff up. In this way, Silence really can be golden.

 

Focus on the Scouts who are making these comments. Offer them encouragement and help. No need to talk about the one that got away with IT.

 

Give a sample copy of a Court of Honor agenda to all the scouts in the PLC and those taking Communications merit badge, or suggest a website where one can be found.

 

Life lessons

 

Sometimes bad things happen to good people, and sometimes good things happen to undeserving people.

 

And that is all of us.