Who decides which MBC is acceptable

[LongHaul]

In another thread as we say a fellow poster said "the Scoutmaster selects the counselor" and this poster felt that it would be up to the Scoutmasters descretion whether to accept a signed Blue Card from a different counselor.

Yes it is the District/Council Advancement Committees responsibility to approve MBCs but as SM I have the resposibility of quality control within the troop I serve. There could be times, Summer Camp or Mass merit badge sessions where the specific MBC would not be known before hand but what about when it's just a scout and his buddy and you have selected a counselor form a "short" list. Would you accept a signed Blue card from a different counselor? Question 2; If you decide that you must accept the card becasue it is signed by "an approved" MBC would it influence you at the Scoutmaster's conference as to Scout Spirit when the boy had not followed your directions?

LongHaul

[FScouter]

There are over 100 approved counselors in our district. I really don't have the time nor inclination to verify whether the district merit badge dean has properly done his job. There are some counselors I know do a great job and I will recommend them. But if a boy uses a counselor I don't know, I would never disapprove it.

 

Frankly I don't think the SM has any business getting involved in approving MB counselors. If there are bad counselors out there, it is not individual Scoutmasters that should be trying to fix that.

[evmori]

The SM assigns the counselor. It's in the SM Handbook & BS Handbook. And the blues card or whatever color you use is signed by a "unit leader" when the Scout has completed the requirements. The second signature is nothing more than an acknowledgment by the unit the Scout has completed the requirements. The key is the Scout obtains the name of the counselor from the SM at the time he decides on the MB he wants to work on.

 

We have over 200 MB counselors in my district. Their approval or denial as MB counselors is the job of my DAC.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[SWScouter]

First the scout tells the SM he'd like to work on a MB. The SM either approves the request or not. If the SM approves the request, he/she signs the blue card and gives the scout the name of a qualified MB counselor. There's nothing I'm aware of that states the scout has to use that counselor. The Boy Scout Handbook doesn't, nor does the SM Handbook.

 

After the scout completes the MB requirements, the MB counselor fills out and signs the appropriate portions of the blue card and retains one portion for his/her records.

 

The scout then returns the blue card to the SM. The SM signs the portion of the blue card the scout keeps and turns in the other portion. This signature really is just a receipt for the scout and should have nothing to do with approval.

 

SWScouter

[John-in-KC]

I'm going to take respectful issue with FScouter. I believe on of the jobs of a SM is to get to know the various external MB Counselors the Troop may choose to use.

 

WHY?

 

First, youth protection. Yes, counseling is supposed to be in a public place, yes, counseling is supposed to be minimum 2 Scouts.

 

Operative words: SUPPOSED TO BE.

 

In my neck of the woods, we've had three school teachers/principals arrested for endangering a child with indecent acts in the past month. My paranoia index is pegged higher than usual right now.

 

Second, quality. Why risk substandard presentation/testing of the MB? If a SM knows the lady or gentleman in question has the interest, has the skills, and has the desire to mentor youth, the Scouts served by the SM are likely to get good results.

 

There's a simple way to get to know these fine people: They're the ones who attend District Roundtable.

 

My thoughts.

[OldGreyEagle]

Oh well Ed, we both knew it wouldnt last, I beleive you to be wrong. In the situation you describe the scout goes to the scoutmaster and asks, "Sir, may I work on the Orienteering merit badge?" and the grand scoutmaster contemplates his next course of action. Meanwhile, Sammy Scout is all aquiver, he desparately wants to work on the Orienteering merit badge, its his current passion, its all he can think about. Why should he need the scoutmaster's permission?

 

The answer to the question of who decides which MBC? The guy who controls the list,,,

[Beavah]

It's important to remember that these days some CO's have stricter youth protection rules than the BSA. That's true of Catholic units in our district, who require separate YPT training and fingerprint background checks. These units necessarily restrict MBC's to adults who have met their requirements. Da rest of us should take a hint - if we're honest, we recognize that the background checking, oversight, and training of MBC's is cursory at best.

 

A CO might also want boys to use an internal MBC for philosophical reasons. I can see an LDS unit wanting Family Life to be taught by an LDS scouter, for example.

 

As to whether a SM should say "no" to a scout interested in a merit badge, there are times. I've said "no" to Shotgun for lightweight 10-year-olds who had never used a firearm. I've said "no" to Whitewater for weak swimmers. Sometimes it's a kindness to steer a boy toward a lower target that will yield success.

[ScoutNut]

While it is true that the Catholic church is requiring all persons working with youth in their schools & parish organizations to take their own version of youth protection training, this has nothing to do with Merit Badge Counselors.

 

The Catholic church does not require adults who have contact with their youth OUTSIDE of their parish organizations to undergo their youth protection training. Catholic units are NOT required to restrict the MBC's the boys use to ONLY those who have undergone the Catholic youth protection training. If they did this the number of MBC's available to the boys would go down considerably. The boys would not be able to earn merit badges at summer camp or the Merit Badge Academy held at the local Lutheran church.

 

Of course, this is according to the Archdiocese of Chicago. Beavah's area might be different, but I have seen no documentation out of the A of C to support it.

 

While a MBC does not have to pay a National registration fee, they DO have to fill out an adult BSA application and agree to a BSA background check.

 

[Beavah]

Yah, my understanding is that this might vary by Catholic administrative region (state? bishopric?). Summer camps and MB fairs where the approved leaders take the boys and are supervising doesn't seem to be a problem. But traditional/ideal MB counseling where the boys make an appointment and go and meet semi-privately with an adult requires the adult to go through the Catholic screening/training requirements.

 

We are being told "no exceptions" in our district.

 

 

 

 

[Venividi]

SM approves the request, he/she signs the blue card and gives the scout the name of a qualified MB counselor. There's nothing I'm aware of that states the scout has to use that counselor.

 

I think and hope we shouldn't/wouldn't be looking for rules for every possible situation. We are wanting to instill character in boys, and want them to use the scout oath and law to guide to make decisions rather than simply following rules. We should do the same. If the SM gives a MBC name to a scout, and the scout comes back with the signature of a different counselor, I don't think there is a need to go looking for a rule as to whether this is or is not allowed. Was the scouts action trustworthy? - it would be prudent to have a conversation with the scout about what happened to cause him to use a different MBC. Perhaps there was a good reason, or perhaps not. In either case, it provides an opportunity for a meaningful discussion with the scout. And an opportunity for the SM to make a call that is in the best interest of the scout - if the scout is generally trustworthy, perhaps the discussion is enough - or if the scout is one that is generally not trustworthy and trying to game the system, then this is another item used to discuss with the scout when told he is not yet ready to advance.

[Lisabob]

Along the lines of this thread, let me ask a couple of hypothetical questions about MBs and MBCs.

 

1. If a scout comes to you wanting to work on a MB for which there is only one (or a small handful) of MBCs, whom you know to be of poor quality, would you direct that scout toward them anyway, in the absence of better options?

 

2. If a district-endorsed event comes along (like a MB Fair) and it is a situation where you don't have any idea who the MBC will be, thus eliminating your ability as SM to do "quality control," would you still encourage scouts to sign up?

 

3. Can you/Would you (two separate questions I suppose) direct a scout away from Eagle-required badges that are offered by a MB Fair in the above situation? What about the scout who tells you he wants to "knock out" all three of the Citizenship badges in one day at said Fair? (understanding that some requirements would have to be done as pre-reqs)

 

4. Can you/have you ever directed a scout toward a MBC from another council in lieu of your own? I'm thinking about MBs for which there aren't many counselors available in your council and you aren't happy with the quality of their work, but maybe another nearby council has more options.

 

5. If the DAC is ultimately responsible for procuring high-quality MBCs, what steps do you take to help or provide "quality control" feedback to the DAC? Or is it pretty much up to them?

 

I appreciate this discussion - it is something that has come up in context of troop and district discussions around here so input is good.

 

Lisa'bob

 

 

 

 

[John-in-KC]

1. If a MBC is not going to give a Scout a quality experience, open up the search radius. If practical, there's nothing wrong with going out-of district or even out-of Council. Now, that may be tough for folks in Flyover Country, were a District is 150 miles across, but the concept applies.

 

2. We do. OTOH, our merit badge college is sponsored by a local 4 year liberal arts school. There is some degree of importance in teaching the material "to standard."

 

3. My Districts' MBC has a MAX of two merit badges, and only one can be from the Eagle list. I counsel Cit in Nation and Cit in World. I KNOW my badges require substantial outside work, or the Scout in question does not depart with a signed card. I'd slow the Scout down and say "enjoy the journey," rather than trying to cram.

 

4. Yes. See 1 above.

 

5. This is part of the reason the District Eagle Guest is there; he listens at EBOR's to see if there are quality problems in the program at a very macro level.

[SWScouter]

Venividi, I agree with you. I was basically countering Ed Mori's statement that, "the SM assigns the counselor." I imagine most scouts don't know a counselor for the MB he wants to earn and so the SM provides him one. I see nothing wrong with the scout using a MBC he knows about. I also think it would be courteous for the scout to tell the SM that he'd like to work with MBC X instead of MBC Y. There are all kinds of good, valid reasons why a scout may end up using a different MBC than the one the SM told him about.

 

SWScouter

[Beavah]

1. If a scout comes to you wanting to work on a MB for which there is only one (or a small handful) of MBCs, whom you know to be of poor quality...

 

It would be our job as a unit or district to find and train a high quality counselor for the boy.

 

2. If a district-endorsed event comes along (like a MB Fair) and it is a situation where you don't have any idea who the MBC will be...

 

No. If we're not sure of the quality, we wouldn't allow it. Our duty to the boys is to provide a high-quality experience.

 

3. Can you/Would you (two separate questions I suppose) direct a scout away from Eagle-required badges that are offered by a MB Fair in the above situation?...

 

Absolutely. Da goal isn't "knocking out" badges. The goal is learning something well from someone who can excite/encourage/mentor the boy. Anything else is a perversion of the Advancement Method.

 

4. Can you/have you ever directed a scout toward a MBC from another council in lieu of your own?

 

Sure. Again, it's our job to hook boys up with a high-quality counselor. Any method for doing that works.

 

5. If the DAC is ultimately responsible for procuring high-quality MBCs, what steps do you take to help or provide "quality control" feedback to the DAC?

 

Good question. In my experience, DAC's are hit or miss, usually miss. Without troops doing quality control, it really doesn't get done most places.

[evmori]

Page 187 of the Boy Scout handbook states the Scout gets "a signed merit badge application and name of a qualified counselor" from his SM. I can't locate my SM handbook right now but I am pretty sure it states something very similar. The MB counselor name(s) are given to the Scout by the SM.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10