Dedicated Dad

The Wiccan/Pagan religion, and I use that term very loosely, is Occultism. While they may be good people and harmless, they are misguided in their beliefs. They believe to be following the people who lived before Christianity conquered. Christianity was very effective in destroying these belief systems, via The Holy Roman Empire and The Crusades, that the "New Pagans/Wiccans" have no idea as to the source of their belief structure, which in fact is primarily myth, legend, and literature. Wicca was invented by Gerald Gardner who was a Theosophist, and a Rosicrucian, and a member of "The Golden Dawn" who put together a composition of his own ideas and some historical research. It's all an act of rebellion against mainstream religion. Anyone who pretends to have control over nature, through supernatural powers, is worthy of our pity and our ministry.

In many ways, we will be the "heads" of this "ministry,"Brad, I like your perspective of seeing this as a ministry. Praise to you. I wish I could offer you some insight as to your domestically challenged scouting dilemma but it looks like you have few alternatives. I think we work at our best, though not comfortably, under stress and it looks like you both will have plenty at the beginning. I have no dought you both will well survive these little trials and tribulations, and be sure Gods help will be with you all the way. Good Luck

Interesting thought I wish I could take credit for it.

I thought the Apostle's and Nicene creed were authored by the Roman Catholic church to spell out their beliefs. Due to these clauses? I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy catholic Church,or We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church. This is catholic with a lower case c which means the universal Christian Church. If you are going back to when Constantine accepted Christianity Id be hard pressed to say whether the RCC was established before the Holy Roman Empire, perhaps youd know better than I would?

...rather than statements of beliefs.Not "statements", to confess means more than to acknowledge sin to God or a priest, in means to declare or affirm ones faith. Many Christians use the Apostles' Creed and the Nicene Creed to confess and proclaim the eternal truths stated in these Creeds and I would imagine your priest will concur.

The creeds really are confessions, my Baptist friends dont recite them either.

I guess if you believe the Apostles Creed and the Nicene Creed you pretty much believe in the Trinity!

You seem to be saying that public schools CAN deny "equal access" if they really, really, don't like the group, such as the KKK. Again, you make no point. You just ignore for instance the fact that the equal access act has nothing to do with outside groups, i.e., The Boy Scouts. It has to do with student groups. Nothing in the equal access act advances your argument. We are talking about outside groups--not student groups. The entire statute is irrelevant to the argument--it doesn't apply. Ill let you have the last word, try to stay on point. If that were so, then the KKK would HAVE access in some Southern States while other groups would not. God love ya Mom, but youre watching the parade a couple blocks behind.

No offense, but you don't know what you're talking about. Well see, huh? Oh yeah? How about this from the Texas Association of school boards, explaining the Federal Equal Access Act (since it's federal legislation, it covers all US schools): http://www.tasb.org/policy/sp/sp_equal_access.shtml Again, you overstate your position. The cite you give is not authoritative. Last year, the Supreme Court in Good News Good Sports Club v. School District of the City of Ladue stated that allowing the club to meet on school grounds would ensure, rather than threaten, neutrality toward religion because it merely sought to be treated neutrally and given the same access to facilities as the other groups that dealt with the same topic. Do you understand the distinction? The school opened its facilities to groups dealing with the same subjectsthe same types of groups. Under the Act, "meeting" includes "those activities of student groups which are permitted under a school's limited open forum and are not directly related to the school curriculum." Hence a school that has established a limited open forum for noncurriculum-related student groups must allow all such groups to use school facilities to the same extent. If some groups have access to the school's public address system, the school newspaper, or bulletin boards, all groups are entitled to that same access. Just because the Texas association of school boards says it doesnt make it so.... Sorry, you've just violated the Federal Equal Access Act if the Klan Youth Corps can't get the same access as the Boy Scouts. Sorry, again. Here is what the statute says. 1.) It deals with student initiated activities; 2.) the activity occurs after school hours; and 3.) it only addresses secondary schools. 20 U.S.C.A. 4071 UNITED STATES CODE ANNOTATED TITLE 20. EDUCATION CHAPTER 52--EDUCATION FOR ECONOMIC SECURITY SUBCHAPTER VIII--EQUAL ACCESS 4071. (a) Restriction of limited open forum on basis of religious, political, philosophical, or other speech content prohibited It shall be unlawful for any public secondary school which receives Federal financial assistance and which has a limited open forum to deny equal access or a fair opportunity to, or discriminate against, any students who wish to conduct a meeting within that limited open forum on the basis of the religious, political, philosophical, or other content of the speech at such meetings. (b) "Limited open forum" defined A public secondary school has a limited open forum whenever such school grants an offering to or opportunity for one or more noncurriculum related student groups to meet on school premises during noninstructional time. Moreover, as Stevens stated in his concurrance in Mergens, [n]othing in Widmar [an earlier decision] implies that the existence of a French club, for example, would create a constitutional obligation to allow student members of the Ku Klux Klan or the Communist Party to have access to school facilities. More importantly, nothing in that case suggests that the constitutional issue should turn on whether French is being taught in a formal course while the club is functioning.

The school can offer its space on an equal basis to any public organization; it doesn't have to, but if it does, it has to take on all comers. Your school, for example, would also be require to allow an atheist group (or other discriminatory groups, such as a "whites only" club) to use space on the same terms. No offense, but you have misstated the argument in so many different ways it is difficult to know where to begin. To say that a public school is a semi-public forum (such as an airport) in that it would be required to open its doors to all if it opens it to some is just wrong. A school is not an airport. While a school (the state) cannot act arbitrarily, it certainly limits access to the public. The state discriminates all the time when it comes to protecting children. As I hope you understand, individual rights are always balanced against the states interest. That is, the states interest may trump the individuals rights. When you say that a school is required to let the Klan or the whites only club in if it lets the Boy Scouts in, you dont know what youre talking about. The states interest often wins out when dealing with our children. I think that if the issue where whether the Klan should be able to recruit in our public schools, you would find that the states interest would out weight that of the Klans. To say that the government cannot judge the content of the message is wrong as well. All that will be at issue is the scrutiny under which the states action is reviewed. If the states interest were significant enough, it certainly would withstand any courts review. The fact that I have to make this second point is truly unfortunate. That is, when making your argument, you continually confuse Constitutional law, federal statutory law, and state law. You make these broad statements regarding how all schools throughout the US are acting unlawfully by allowing Boy Scouts to recruit in their schools. However, you use an Oregon statute to support this argument. One more thing you do that bothers me. Although you appear to be discussing Constitutional law, you refer to religious discrimination. From where are you getting this? Are you referring to the First Amendment of our US Constitution? If you are then I would like you to cite a case in which atheism was found to be a religion due protection under our First Amendment. I dont mean to say that intertwined in your convoluted, overlapping, and inaccurate argument you make no point. If I were you, I would concentrate on your captive audience argument. It is the argument the Supreme Court has bought into on more than one occasion, and I think its your best. I think the Supreme Court was wrong, and I am sure the issue will be revised. When you say that certain conduct is illegal, I think that is too simplistic of a view. You may of course argue whatever point you feel is valid, however, for the sake of your own credibility, I suggest that any argument you make in which you lecture people and claim that their conduct is illegal should be based on specific statutes or case precedent. Otherwise, it is specious, irresponsible, and unsupportable diatribe not worthy of debate.

he does this about 2-3 times a month Boy, that sounds like a lot of disruption, more than enough to adversely effect the other kids in the troop. I would pow-wow with his parents first to see if there could be any behavior modification from home. Next, I would console him each and every time and then set him down in a restrictive/non-punishment time-out until the activities are over. If there is no behavior change after he makes the connection of over-reactive behavior to the restriction then I would give him alternative activities, basket weaving, leatherwork etc.

Terry, how do you format HREF links or IMG maps? I've been able to do this once but not again. I see you can, is it restricted? BTW, I like your new formatting instructions.

Didn't mean to offend. Was my perfume too strong? Somebody liked your perfume, you guys just got your own discussion board. Welcome aboard

You don't know any Girl Scouts you could forward this too? Mom was my only hope and since dashed my well-intentioned referral. Shame on me.

Sorry, wrong board, this is for the Boy Scouts. Good luck. May-be sctmom can help.

But, times changed This is far from a moral issue and I dont quite think its fair to use your moral relativists analogy for a topic in social ethics. If there were 3 men and 1 woman stranded on a desert island where they held a vote to see if rape would be an OK thing to do and the vote went 3-1 in favor, then I guess times changed just the same. Now, I am not saying wearing an earring or getting a tattoo measures up to risks and ideals these people took...Then why always use the same "times change" relativiism, either it is or it isn't?

Showing off?

What do you do? Absolutely nothing, he is an adult and has the absolute right to make such decisions. How do you feel? I wouldnt let him know my feelings because part of being courteous is being polite and respectful. My personal feelings have no bearing on whether he has the moral fortitude to severe, he does. The only problem I have is with a parent who gives consent for their unemancipated child to get tattoos or piercings. You and Eman can misconstrue my position as some sort of comment on the personal decisions you have made as adults, but it isnt. With idealism, one can quote MLK all they want but, right or wrong, in the real world he will be judged. Does this fellow who once upon a time you held in such high regard suddenly become flawed in your mind? In my mind I think he has defaced his body and thats something Id not do to mine. Further its considered in many circles as uncouth and in poor taste, and in those same circles may be your next perspective employer who isnt quite as enlightened as the next person, again its not something I would chance. Bottom line, I would be pretty neutral on the whole judgement thing, its just not for me. I do wonder how BP would feel, do you think piercings and tattoos meet the standard of clean?

The following words were spoken by the late Red Skelton on his television program as he related the story of his teacher, Mr. Laswell, who felt his students had come to think of the Pledge of Allegiance as merely something to recite in class each day. "I've been listening to you boys and girls recite the Pledge of Allegiance all semester and it seems as though it is becoming monotonous to you. If I may, may I recite it and try to explain to you the meaning of each word?" I -- me, an individual, a committee of one. Pledge -- dedicate all of my worldly goods to give without self pity. Allegiance -- my love and my devotion. To the flag -- our standard, Old Glory, a symbol of freedom. Wherever she waves, there's respect because your loyalty has given her a dignity that shouts freedom is everybody's job! United -- that means that we have all come together. States -- individual communities that have united into 48 great states. Forty-eight individual communities with pride and dignity and purpose; all divided with imaginary boundaries, yet united to a common purpose, and that's love for country. And to the republic -- a state in which sovereign power is invested in representatives chosen by the people to govern. And government is the people and it's from the people to the leaders, not from the leaders to the people. For which it stands, one nation -- one nation, meaning "so blessed by God" Indivisible -- incapable of being divided. With liberty -- which is freedom -- the right of power to live one's own life without threats, fear or some sort of retaliation. And Justice -- the principle or quality of dealing fairly with others. For all -- which means, boys and girls, it's as much your country as it is mine.

Under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

So, as far as this American and this Scouter is concerned, the flag stays on the shoulder of every Boy Scout in this countryUnder God, with liberty and justice for all.

Marquee

I do recall you being in Bethlehem however I dont know where that is in PA, but it just so happens to be why I posted the article, aint that is a qwinky-dink. Congrads to Bobby. If youre near Westmoreland county, and this really belongs in the P&I forum, this article may concern you as well. Wednesday, January 23, 2002 WESTMORELAND COUNTY Ex-scout leader still in jail The former Boy Scout leader who physically abused three young boys on an unauthorized overnight camping trip is having trouble getting out of jail. John T. Levendosky, who was ordered paroled in mid-August, is still in the Westmoreland County Prison because he cannot find a place to live, his defense attorney told Common Pleas Judge William J. Ober yesterday. Levendosky, formerly of Derry Borough, was an assistant scoutmaster in June 2000 when he took the 12- and 13-year-old boys on a camping trip and put them through a night of naked bondage that included spanking, but no sexual activity. As part of a ritual for a phony organization he called "Osprey," Levendosky also used a knife to scratch "Ts" in the boys' chests. The boys complained to their parents and Levendosky, now 53, was arrested and placed in the county prison four days later. After he was thrown out of the Boy Scouts, Levendosky pleaded guilty to 18 charges stemming from the incident. Ober sentenced Levendosky to one to two years minus a day in prison and he was to be on electronic house arrest for six months and probation for 15 years after that. In August, since Levendosky already had served more than his minimum term, Ober ordered him paroled and he was expected to be out of prison within two weeks. But yesterday, public defender Ryan Kammerer said Levendosky has been unable to find affordable rental housing and he was still trying to arrange something with a family member. Kammerer asked Ober to credit the extra time Levendosky has spent behind bars toward the house-arrest period when he does get out, but the judge refused.

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how did you find this write-up??? Ive got access to software that has a ticker which searches published articles for key phrases, in this case its the word Scout. What is your vested interest? There are all kinds of articles on the Boy Scouts and if youd like I can share more with the board. Its just that I didnt want to inundate us with too many articles.