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Everything posted by DeanRx
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Here's one I penned last month after a non-unit campout with friends from the pack. We wanted to go very austere (no running water and no toliets at the campsite), so not approved for the cubbies, so we did it as a group of families together... anyways, sorry its so long - but the stew was an unexpected surprise and really did trigger these memories. ******************************************************************************************************** From campout 3/14/09 Dinty Moore Stew As we pulled into camp at 3100 ft ascending from our afternoon hike on the valley floor, the temperature had dropped over 20 digits to 56 degrees. The onshore flow was picking up as dusk was rapidly approaching. Paul, Jim and Anoop tended to getting the stove started and dinner cooked. The boys, Carson, Ryan, Aaron and Rohith returned briefly to their boulders for one last climb before sunset. I was sure glad to leave the thousands of day-trippers on the valley floor, returning to our secluded camp and occupied myself with getting the campfire started in the tin washbasin that was required for any open flame inside the state park. Once lit, Anoop took over tending the flames. I wandered off to a nearby grove of trees providing me a windbreak for starting my lantern. Fellow campers, present company included, have poked fun at my stubbornness in using such an old Coleman lantern on campouts. They ask me if I know that Sports Chalet sells newer models. Its an old 1940s model handed down to me by my uncle Mark. He and my aunt Cecilia never had kids and he had gotten the lamp from his father, now since past away. Still in the original red metal carrying box and it still had the 1st glass globe it came with. Jim commented that it would likely fetch a good price on E-bay. Other than putting new mantles in it Ive always gotten it to light, even if it was a bit testy sometimes. Tonight, I wouldnt be so lucky. In my impatience to get the dang thing going, I probably flooded it out by over priming the thumb-pump. At least the other guys had their lanterns and we werent relying on mine for camp light. Ive always kept the lantern and the old Coleman stove Mark gave me. They still work and I cant seem to bring myself to discard a piece of camping gear that is still useful. Maybe its my connection to campouts of the past. Maybe its my link to my family back in Nebraska. On this trip, Carson and I slept in an old 3-man dome that my father bought for our family sometime in the early 1980s. Anoop and Rohith shared the second one. Aside from the elastic in the poles loosing their resilience and some slight off-coloring of the canopy from decades old water sealer, they work as well as when Dad bought them. Good thing too for tonight, they would be tested. The wind would not die with the setting sun. I return from my unsuccessful lantern lighting to find the four boys all huddled around the fire asking about food. Jim fashioned a makeshift windbreak from a tarp, some cord and a U-shaped piece of tubing he found discarded on the perimeter of the camp. Its not much to look at, but it does the trick. We setup the folding table on the downwind side of the windbreak and bust out the mess kits. Salad, BBQ chicken and rice. Paul should plan the meals every time, I think to myself as we dig in. For sentiment sake, Jim breaks out a large can of Dinty Moore Stew. Tearing the label from the can, he vents the lid and places it directly on the coals to cook. While the boys finish off their chicken and prepare to gorge themselves on Smores, I pull the lid back on the can of stew using my pocketknife pliers. I then move whats left of my rice to the side of the bowl and scoop out a generous helping from the smoky can. As I peal off the lid, I hear my fathers voice in my head telling me that this is how they cooked it in Viet Nam. I remember questioning back then, if they really had Dinty Moore stew in Viet Nam. Twenty some years later, I still dont know the answer. But, I do know my father cooked his C-rations this way in the Army. He had passed this culinary campfire knowledge to me. Now Carson, his 8 year old grandson was fresh with the same skills needed to make his own hobo stew. As I brought the first tastes of slightly overcooked, campfire smoked, canned stew to my mouth the aroma brought back a flood of boyhood wilderness memories. The time in Colorado when we hiked Notch Mountain together as a family. I think this was the reason Dad bought the dome tent. My sister had to of been a year or two older than Carson was now. I was probably about 13 and somewhat experienced in my camping with scouting. We did a 10 miler from base camp to the summit to look across the valley at Mt of the Holy Cross. I remember the awe of being above the tree line for the first time in my life. I also recall my father getting pissed off at me and my sister because we ran so far ahead on the trail. He made me carry the daypack for part of the journey, just to slow us up. There is something magic about a hike like that. Pushing up to near 13000 feet, having a snowball fight at the summit in the middle of July. I remember we were not supposed to cut the switchbacks on the upper route and we carried out everything that we took in with us. It might have been called Leave No Trace back in those days, but I only knew it as, Leave the place better than you found it. By my second and third bite of stew, my thoughts were on to the boundary waters of Minnesota. That trip was just Dad and I with the scouts. My mother and Jennie had gone to Chicago with some friends as I recall. Fifty miles in seven days by canoe and portage. We bear-bagged our food every night and still managed to have a sow and cub come into our camp and make a try for our food about half way through the trip. I thought it was exciting. My father had other adjectives he would have used to describe the encounter. I caught the largest fish Ive ever landed on that trip. It was a huge pike. As fishing stories go, the thing gets bigger in my mind every time I think of that fish. I know this. We had 6 or 7 guys in our crew and we all ate off that pike that night. This is the same trip I scarred my foot. My lure got fouled on some rocks about 20 feet from shore. Since the water is so clear, I could see the lure. I decided to put on my trunks and swim out to untangle my line. Before my father could speak the words of warning, I was down to my shorts and in the water. Not only had I shed my clothes, but my hiking boots too. The rocks in the boundary water lakes are unglaciated. This means unworn and sharp. I thought I had just stubbed my foot on the way out to the lure. Once back on shore, I found a deep L-shaped gash on my right foot that probably should have had stitches if there would have been an ER within 250 miles. We butter-flied it shut the best we could and thankfully it didnt get infected. Thats alright scars, like my stew, are reminders of adventures you have lived. I would examine that scar as I slipped into my sleeping bag later tonight some 25 years later. Finally as I finished my stew, my thoughts turned to the people that I have known through camping and those who knew me. There was Dorothy Molter the Rootbeer Lady on an island in Minnesota. She lived out there by herself and sold homemade root beer and packs of spare leaders and hooks to any of the canoeists that came her way. I read on the internet that she had passed away. No surprise, she was well on in years when I was 15. Some society dismantled her cabin and moved it to a museum outside of Ely. You can still order a 6-pack of her root beer online if the mood strikes you, but I doubt it tastes as good as it did on her island oasis. There are others, my own family, my mom and sister, especially my father. He didnt have to take time to show me about the outdoors, how to hunt and fish, how to respect and care for the world around you, but he did. Some of my best memories as a kid involve him and a tent in Colorado, Minnesota, or at Camp Augustine on the Platte in Nebraska. There is Dr. Mike Kleppinger, my old Cubmaster and father of my friend Stan. I last heard Stan was teaching high school music somewhere in Iowa. He and I used to play poker for candy late into the night on campouts, in the same tent Carson and I would sleep in tonight. There was Dr. Will Locke, my Jr High history teacher, ardent scout supporter and the guy who hatched the idea of the Notch Mountain trek. He led a group of older scouts up Mt of the Holy Cross at the same time the younger ones did Notch. I remember him as a tall lanky guy who liked to run. His appreciation of nature and the outdoors was strong and he passed it on to any student that would listen. I think Dr. Locke and Jim must be long lost twins; they are sure cut from similar cloth. The first time I met Jim, memories of Dr. Locke jumped into my head. Mr. Stewart was my Scoutmaster. He drove around in an old Army Jeep and they lived in a house on the edge of town. He was all about the camping, getting outdoors. His son, Joe, was a year ahead of me in school. Joe was a good kid, but could be moody sometimes. I think he got a kick out of playing the role of disaffected youth a little too much. Maybe it comes with the turf of being the scoutmasters kid, similar to being a preachers kid. Being a year older, he was cooler than me and I was never really sure if I fit in with him or if he was going to exclude me from his circle of friends. I remember in high school, their house caught fire and was pretty much a total loss. I asked Joe about it. He replied that it was all cool because it meant he got to get all new stuff. I dont really know if he truly felt this way, or if it was a teenager playing off a huge loss in his life because he didnt want others knowing how bad it hurt to loose your belongings. Anyways, that comment always stuck with me. Funny how a few words or a single sentence can stick in your brain like that. I vividly remember Mr. Stewart at scout camp. We were gathering for a huge bonfire. I dont know where I got it or why I was even trying it but for some reason I had my first dip of chew in my mouth on the way to that bonfire. We get there, about ten of us in our Troops group and sit down. Now, Mr. Stewart could have sit anywhere with our group. But, as you might guess, he plops down in the grass right next to me. Now, how am I supposed to spit without being seen by my Scoutmaster? Im not sure if he did it on purpose or if it was an act of God, but I sat through that bonfire with a wad in my mouth and no place to spit. It got to the point I couldnt take it and forced myself to swallow the saliva building in my mouth! I remember only two things from that bonfire. First, I puked in the tree line on the way back to camp. Second, I have never to this day ever been inclined to try chewing tobacco ever again. I wonder if Im doing them all proud. It feels wonderful to spend time with friends and especially my son outdoors, but its really a selfish endeavor. Its male bonding, father-son time, but the undercurrent to it all is nostalgia. I often ask myself if Im doing a good job of paying it forward to the next generation. Do I find the right balance of fun and teaching when Im out camping with Carson and other boys from the pack? Will they overlook the lessons and just see it as fun, much as I did as a kid? Finally, will they grow to understand the importance of having places to go camp, nature unspoiled, appreciated? My hope is that once Carson has kids of his own, hell look back on these times with a great sense of wonder and awe. They should be the epic adventures and romantic remembrances of his childhood. They are for me. Maybe thats why I use the old tents, the old stove and lantern. Heck, our mess kits are even my fathers and mine from our respective days in scouts. Its nostalgia in action and a tactile connection. I will likely never have the opportunity to have my sons camp with their grandfather. The old gear is the link between generations, the tie that binds. Its funny to think all those memories were triggered by a musty tent and a can of stew. I count these new campmates as close confidants in my history, just as I hold on to those that shaped me as a youth. It was a one-nighter, not even a full weekend campout, but it left a history in my soul. It was the campouts of the past, mixed with the campers of the future. Almost as if the flames of the campfire forge the bond between the campers who sit around it. Three days after the trip, I happened to smell the stale smoke from the camp fire still seeping from Carsons heavy coat in the laundry room. Even then, in that split second I was transported back to the memories. Joe, Stan, my father, Dr. Kleppinger, Mr. Stewart, Dr. Locke, their faces all there. But this time Carson, Jim, Aaron, Rohith, Anoop, Paul and Ryan infused in the memory as well. I pray the memory will be enriched as future campouts add to the play list in my mind. Luke and Jennifer are not far behind. How exciting and exhausting it will be to have both boys out under the stars, my wife along for the adventure instead of at home with the baby. The two brothers climbing the boulders of Anza Borrego, spying for chuckwallas or scorpions at dusk. If by chance we are ever lucky enough to summit Whitney or Half Dome together, will my sons be struck with the same awe I experienced that first time above the tree line? I hope so.
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Anyone get hit up by their DE for a second FOS presentation this year?
DeanRx replied to DeanRx's topic in Council Relations
Crew21- I appreciate your response. I didn't take your original post as confrontational... just wanted to make clear that this was not our unit saying no to an FOS presentaiton, it was about allowing multiple solicitations in the same FOS season. I agree every unit should have a FOS pitch at least once a year (at the units request and perhaps at the DE's requesting). I just don't see much value added and in fact would guess a detrimental efect to unit moral and maybe even drop outs caused by a 2nd FOS push. (no hard data to back this up - other than how I feel just by being asked after I already pledged this year) Thanks for the feedback. Dean -
Do you know if it was charged with, pled to, or convicted of? Big difference on all three. Arrested and charged but pending trial, I don't know if there is much you can / should do... that whole innocent until proven guilty thing we have in this country. I just wouldn't let anyone from scouts ride with him, but I doubt he has his liscense intact pending the outcome of the trial or the entrance of a plea. "Pled to" or "convicted of" - even a "no contest" plea... then you have some issues to address. Fisrt is what role (if any) should he still have in unit leadership. At the very least, he would have lost the privelidge of driving anyone for any reason in my book. I'd honestly be in favor of asking him to step aside for the good of the unit. Heck, if it was me (then again I'm responsible about this type of thing so it should NEVER be an issue - but never say never).... I would personally remove myself from a leadership role due to the embarrasemnt, humliation and loss of trust I would incur from the parents and scouts in the unit, but thats just me. AS someone else stated - time to get your Exec council involved. I'm sure they have a national plicy to guide them (we have them for everything else in BSA), so let the folks at council know of the issue and they can guide you. Good luck - With both this guy and his wife as leaders, I'd be guessing you're getting ready to loose at least one adult volunteer and probably two b/c I don't know many spouses that would stick around a group that doesn't welcome their husband / wife (even if the outcast status is self-inflicted). I'd tell council and start thinking about who you're going to get to replace those two leaders... Thats a tough and crappy situation to have happen in a unit. Maybe with time, the family will be able to continue to participate, but I would doubt in a leadership role. Leaders must be able to be trusted and this guy has betrayed that trust in a very serious manner. Forgiveness and personal improvement are hallmarks of the scouting program, but its much easier to talk about 2nd chances than it is to impliment them in real life - like I said before - best of luck on this one.... I have a feeling your unit will need it.
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Thought I'd pass along to the community a great website I stumbled across about knots. It provides animated vinettes on how to tie each knot and a brief history and interesting facts on each as well. This guy does a bang up job. They have knots grouped as to application: nautical, climbing, scouting, fishing, decorative, etc... Thought maybe this could be of use to a few of my fellow scouters out there. Let me know if you find it useful. http://www.animatedknots.com/index.php?LogoImage=LogoGrog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com YiS, Dean
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Anyone get hit up by their DE for a second FOS presentation this year?
DeanRx replied to DeanRx's topic in Council Relations
Crew21- I understand what you are saying, but my question is whether or not I should approve of a second request for a FOS presentation. We had about 95% turn out for the B&G, probably the best attended event of the year even better than PWD. So the issue is that most families in our unit have had the sales pitch once. Should they be forced to hear it again? Should I be inclined to allow the pitch from someone who doesn't "deliver to my doorstep" when I as a unit leader has questions or need contact information? John-in-KC - We're a "Concerned Parents of Pack XXX", so technically our CC is our COR. I don't think I want to ask her to take on the council on the units behalve asking for transparency of records. Might find it hard to recharter next year shortridge- I'll have to check that website out and see if I can find our council's numbers. It would be nice to know. -
New Cubmaster in uncomfortable position regarding donations (Long)
DeanRx replied to Sharpy's topic in New to Scouting?
AS others have said - Welcome to the virtual campfire... pull up a log and a cup of coffee. The advice you have gotten thus far is good. I would just add a couple more things: 1) If the church is your CO, and the VFW wants to help you out, then have them work together. The VFW can give you anything they want to. I would suggest actual goods (i.e. buy the chairs and tables and give them to the unit / CO). Hard for the DE to grab them from you. Very easy for the DE to try and strong arm a cash gift away from you to the District. 2) The District does not own your unit, the CO does. So at the risk of pissing off your DE, I'd leave him out of the loop for awhile... he's not doing you any favors anyway by trying to take a funding source away from a start-up pack. Get the tables and chairs. Then go forward from there. If you need central HVAC for the cabin, check with the parents of the scouts. One of them might work for an AC and heating company, or know someone, that knows someone, etc... (don't know your location - so don't know if this is a true need or a want in terms of comfort for meetings). A good portion of getting community support for your unit is not waiting for the community to come to you, but to network with specific ideas about what your unit's needs are. I prime example - we were in need of a LOT of stuff for a pack campout two years ago. I go to the local Home Depot and ask the store director if they'd like to donate a gift card to the unit and we'd likely spend more than the card in the store... camp stove, ropes, tarps, etc.... The store director tells me, "Do you have a list of what you're needing?" Let me look at it. He outright gave us about 5 line items and then set us up with the remainder of our list at his cost! Way more of a discount than the $100 gift card I was hoping to get going into the situation. Plus, he asked us to come back at popcorn sales and sell in front of his store!! Point is - be specific about the request. This is true of donated equipment and getting parents to volunteer. "I need someone to be a Den Leader...." not going to get you a volunteer. " I need one parent to plan a game and another to get the supplies for this craft (here's a list) and one more to bring a snack to the next meeting...." WAAAAAAAy more likely to get your volunteer help. Its a specific task, with a specific timeline. People know what they're getting into. Then once they are comfortable with helping on line items, you compliment their help and they are more likely to think about a larger role within the unit. Best of luck - sounds like a rough start, but you can overcome it. Just keep a positive attitude and keep the positive press coming, that will grow your pack in a town of 5000. The community sees you doing good, the community will support you. Above all - KISMIF "Keep it simple, make it fun" - it really is about the boys. Again - welcome and I hope we can be a source of good info for a green leader. Dean -
Awww schucks.... thats real nice of you to say Sooner fan. It warms my Go-Big-Red Nebraska heart to get a nice compliment from an Okie like that
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Anyone get hit up by their DE for a second FOS presentation this year?
DeanRx replied to DeanRx's topic in Council Relations
Lisa (and everyone)- Thanks for the input. I'm the CM by the way. But I've spoken w/ our CC on this issue and we are in agreement. I guess I'd just like to know the 'true' cost per scout and then be told to fund raise around that figure. We had a banner popcorn sale last year (around 24K gross in a unit of 50 scouts). That put roughly 8K into the council right there from our single unit. That means our unit already pumped in $160 per scout to the council on popcorn sales alone this year! Our scouts and parents hustled to make that kind of sale. Yes it directly benefitted the unit, but its at least a win-win for the unit and council. FOS is just the council asking for money with no requirement to be forthright in how they intend to earmark or spend it. I'd love to see an actual breakdown of how many cents per FOS dollar goes towards salaries, legal issues, and actual program for the boys (i.e. camp upkeep, improvements, etc...). I doubt BSA wants to share those numbers with its all volunteer army of fundraisers, it might create some disention in the ranks. I agree that our DE was probably not malicious in his approach to a follow-up FOS presentation. However, it did seem odd how fast a request for information by me (a volunteer at the unit level) got turned around into a fundraising sales pitch by a DE (the professional scouter at the council level). Just left a really bad taste in my mouth. Ultimately, it makes me not want to interact w/ district and council on any issues, because my questions will not likely get addressed and I'll get pressured to raise more money for them. -
I say it - thought it was funny as could be. If I could get away with it, I'd use parts of it as a promo for the BWD next year and as a gentle reminder to any over-eager parents that want to soup-up "johnny's" car for him. Then again - I am one of those dads that order extra special axle polish and tungsten plugs for weights every year..... Hmmmmm.... maybe I could get some radioactive pellets from a nearby nuclear power plant for next years car...... haaaahaaaahaaaa..... no one will ever run faster !!! MUaaaahaaaaa !!!
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Kathy- Welcome to the forums and as for a Committee Chair (CC)... be organized, be detailed, keep a copy of EVERYTHING you ever submit to district or council and know that not everyone is going to like the decisions you and the committee have to make. Act in the best interest of the unit at all times, and if you must take a side, side with your Scoutmaster and senoir (most time in the Troop) committee members... they run the unit. Your relationship with the Scoutmaster will either build or break the unit, so talk / discuss often with an open mind and reach concensus before either of you puts info out to the field and you'll do fine service to your unit. If at any time, you have a miscommunication / misunderstanding - speak directly with the person involved (especially if the person is the SM or ASM). A little frank and open discussion goes a LONG way to avoiding cliques in leadership circles. Best of luck and have fun
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As I posted in another topic, I got hit up by my DE at roundtable last week asking if he could come to our next pack meeting and "re-pitch" FOS after the FOS district chair has already pitched it to the families in the pack last month at the B&G. Anyone else running into this issue? Frankly, I was left almost speechless. I mumbled something about our pack meeting being the last Thursday of the month (without confirming w/ him the actual date and time) and continued with a comment about how most of our families that could afford to contribute already had done so at B&G. If he does happen to show up at the pack show, can I tell him not to re-pitch FOS? If he does, I'm afraid that not only will it result in little to no additional contributions, but may very well have a negative impact on our unit's membership numbers. People don't like to be asked to give twice, especially if the tone of the message is that you didn't give enough the 1st time around. Your thoughts?
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Glad I don't get a Monday e-mail FOS update as a CM for a rather "large" pack... I'd quit on Tuesday and make sure national knew why! I agree with FireKat- Yes, its a nessisary evil, but DE's need to learn there is a place and time and that the VOLUNTEERS do scouting because they care and want to help, not so we can pay the DE's salary. Case in point - we had our annual FOS presentation at the B&G in March. Fine alls well, right? Nope. I went to roundtable last Tuesday. I spoke to my DE before the meeting to ask about a point of contact for booth assignments at the council scout fair coming up on Saturday and to find out if our pack's request for promo fliers for Mays roundup had been processed (our CC asked for them 3 weeks ago). DE's reply...., "I'll have to get you the name of the contact for the scout fair.... and you'll have to check w/ council office about the fliers, they should be done soon.... BTW you did such a good job with FOS last year, I was wondering when the next pack meeting is so we can do a follow-up FOS presentation, because its been a tough year in FOS giving and not everyone in your pack responded to the FOS at B&G...." WHAT ?!?!? - I ask for two simple things 1) a point-of-contact for a council event that is happening in 4 days (b/c no one in our pack had been contacted yet, but we were signed up to do a booth) and 2) a response to our 3-week old request for flyers to RECRUIT new cubs at our round-up. This was met with 1) I don't know the person off the top of my head, but I can find out (what? you're at council, the POC is at council, its a MAJOR council event and you don't know WHO's in charge of it?) and 2) You'll have to chase down the flyers yourself, b/c I can't follow up on it for you.... But.... can I come by your next pack meeting and hit your parents up for more money because I didn't get enough the 1st time around..... I hate to say it - but most of the pros I've interacted with act like the units exist for them, instead of them existing to serve the units. I gave this year, but am seriously reconsidering for next year (regardless of the economy). Especially if the strong arm tactics and lack of leadership follow through continues at this level. It makes me sad and pisses me off at the same time. If the majority of parents in my unit would have heard the conversation b/t myself and the DE at roundtable, I suspect I'd have far fewer scouts in our pack.
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I think it all really goes back to the idea of scouting as "A game with a purpose". Leaders, but especially CM's and SM's need to strive for a good balance between the "game" and the "purpose". Modelling the behavoir is a must. Providing gentle reminders via SM minutes and "teachable moments" when at meetings or on outings. Having frank discussions about challenges youth face, the decision making process, and personal responsibility for actions. These are all important. A long winded lecture on a specific point in the scout law is likely to get tuned out by the scouts. You have the "game" - camping, hiking, water sports, community service (whatever you are doing) as a means to teach the "purpose" AND give the scouts an opportunity to develop leadership skills and initiative in a safe environment. If you're camping and the tents don't get put up correctly b/c the youth leaders failed in their performance, does anyone really get hurt? No. Does it open an opportunity to talk about time management, delegation, and motivation? You bet. Strike the balance and you will be doing your job well. The game without purpose is really just a "playdate" The purpose without the game is really just an old fart lecturing you if you're a 14 y/o scout.
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Yeah Lisa- Maybe it is how our local council does things... b/c we have been told in no uncertain terms that a local tour permit must be filed w/ council anytime any part of your unit (unit as a whole or a den) holds a meeting or outing at a location other than its normal meeting place! I've filed tour permits to take a den on a hike in the local trails within 5 blocks of my home, when my home was the "normal" meeting location for the den... go figure? I still think its a lot to coordinate for someone who is very new to the system. Many of the places you are supposed to try and visit (i.e. police / fire department or TV / radio station / newspaper) can only give tours on a M-F from 8 to 5pm. Like I said - if any one Tiger lives in a two working parent home, they aren't going on the trip. The set-up works great if everyone still lived like June and Ward Cleaver and every kid went home after school to a parent in the house (usually mom). The fact that Tigers is cub-adult partnership basically forces most dens to hold den activities after work hours (5:30 pm or later) or on weekends in order to have parental participation. In the two short years I have been active, I know of no Tiger den meeting out of 3 dens that has ever taken place M-F after school for this very reason. Some families fall into the stay-at-home parent description, but most (for better or worse) do not anymore. With or without a tour permit - it presents a significant hurdle for a new leader in the unit. OK - off my soapbox and back on topic....
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"Teaching our scouts to be "brave" is more than lifesaving and first aid in an accident...it's also tied to having the courage to take a stand when you know values are being breached. Much tougher to instill, but probably more important." I'd second that notion in a heartbeat.... especially given the recent history (last 10-15 years) of our country. We need to make sure the next generation KNOWS how to stand by their values, because the current generation in business, in politics (both sides of the isle), in the classroom, and a lot of times in the family have forgotten how to do this.
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The mentor thing for new DL's is a VERY good idea and one that we try to do in our pack. Its twofold - its gives the new DL someone to ask questions. Hopefully this mentor is the person who was the Tiger DL last year, so all the issues are fresh in their head. Second, it leaves the CM and CC out of the equation so they can do what they're supposed to be doing which is plan and execute pack program. As an aside (ANYONE LURKING FROM AUSTIN - LISTEN UP....) BSA needs to do away with the "go-see-it" stuff in the Tiger year. I understand the intent, but to expect a green leader to organize, submit the tour permits / paperwork, and coordinate 5 field trips for their den is asking a GREAT deal of someone very new to the program. Do you have any idea how difficult it is to coordinate a date / time for 5 to 7 kids and PARENT PARTNERS to all be able to do the same activity (especially when said activity often must be done during regular office hours M-F)? How many TV or radio stations have tours on the weekends? I live in a major metro market and ALL of them would only do a tour during business hours. In a two income family - Johny just isn't going th make the "go-see-it" (or mom or dad has to take time off work to make the trip). Honestly, its not until Web 2 that a similar expectation is placed on a DL. At least in Webs, the DL only needs two deep leadership to make the outing a "go" - in Tigers, its one adult for every scout! 99% of Wolf and Bear rank achievements can be completed in regular den meetings! Why make the newest leaders go manage 5 trips right out of the blocks? Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. I completely agree with Twocubdad - the DL's should be respnsible for their DEN's program (use the program helps or roundtable minutes and its fool-proof). The CC, the committee, and the ACM, CM should be doing the pack wide program (i.e. pack shows, pack campouts, pack outings, B&G, PWD). The DL's serve as supporters in those events, but should not be planning them or the major player in managing them. If that is the case, your unit deserves better from the CC and CM. Aging out is one thing - I've never heard of a DL quiting mid-year. Going to the committee at the end of the school year and saying they can't / don't want to be DL for the following year, yes... but cutting out mid-year on a Den ?!?!? That's very disappointing leadership. If you have issues with folks bolting mid-year, you MUST do exit interviews and find out WHY? Maybe have a non-leader on the committee (i.e. not the CM or CC) do them, in case they are the issue (which in most cases, the ooutgoing DL is not going to tell you). Do you have a pack trainer? What about the committee member that chaired the popcorn sales? Have a set question sheet, so if the person wants - they can just reply via e-mail or form letter, so they don't have to talk to anyone. Some people don't handle confrontation very well and would likely be more candid on a form, than speaking face to face or via phone. Bottom line - if you have DL's jumping out mid-year and its not because of a major life change (i.e. job change, had a baby, moving out of town, divorce, etc...) then you need to find out WHY.
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A few reasons: (and yes DL is a MUCH harder job than CM...) 1) Burnout - the same 5 families are alwyas the ones to show up early, set up and stay late / tear down. Their kids are also the ones to ask if they can help with anything... the others you have to keep from tearing the hall apart either before or after the meeting. After 3-4 years of this, it can get the most gung-ho scouter in a funk. 2) BSA does not equal "Babysitters of America" - too many non-leader parents expect a drop and go expirience, much like soccer practice or T-ball. Sorry, it doesn't work that way. 3) Too much Monday Morning Quarterbacking - if I had a dollar for everytime I've had a non-leader parent state, "Yeah it was good, but in the future it should be x,y,z...." I could retire - even in this economy. Hey guess what? the committee mtgs and planning mtg's are e-mailed to everyone in the unit and you are more than welcome to come and provide input, but also expect that you will get tapped with some taskings too. Otherwise, have a nice cup of shut the ^&%**%% up and stay on th sidelines and let the leaders run the program. (not a very scout-like response, but I am guilty of thinking it, if not muttering it under my breath from time to time, as I suspect most adult leaders have been to that point a time or two) Everyday, it blows my mind how many parents really don't want anything to do with interacting with their children other than acting as shuttle bus driver from one activity to the next. The actual "raising" of the child is pawned off on the school system, the baseball coach, the piano teacher, the scout leader, etc... don't know if its always been that way - but it doesn't speak very well of my current generation of parents. No time to spend w/ Johnny b/c I work two jobs, but he gets to go to Europe w/ me for one week this summer - and mom drives him to school in a nice BMW everyday..... priorities WAY out of whack. Those would be my BIG 3 - and I'm only in my second year of this stuff. Seems to me 10% of the adults do 90% of the work in the pack... all the rest are happy to ride the coat-tails of others. Funny, if something doesn't come off as planned, its always someone from the 90% that wonders out-loud, WHY we can't seem to get our act together. Then again, I'd be doing it even if it was just myself and my son showing up as the entire unit. Ask me again when he's in WEB II, I might still have the same answers, I might be dead by then But, I'll die happy and at least know I did some good by my son.
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You can easily identify any "standing fees" that the committee would like to give the treasurer the authority to pay without a vote. Examples - recharter, BSA fee for new joins, Boys Life, rental on a storage shed (if your unit has one), badges / awards for monthly unit meetings, etc... No need to put every little expense to a vote - as long as there are receipts for the $ spent. However, its a good idea to have these in a written policy so there are no surprises and the person doing the books knows when they can cut the check and when they should ask the committee about it. Additionally, many banks will allow you to set a max amount that a single signer can write for. Example - any check in the amount of over $1000 must be signed by a minimum of two people that are listed as signers on the account. This stops big draws being made without at least TWO folks knowing about it and stops any ONE signer from draining the account and jumping town (not that it would ever happen, but who knows). Check with your unit's banking institution about a limit on signle signer checks if you have a unit with lots of funds.
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"However, there should be no discipline performed that is demeaning, detrimental, or embarrassing. I thought this organization is for fostering the youth of our future." ..... I thought this WAS the definition of discipline? If you make a scout sit-out an activity as a form of punishemnt, are you not embarrassing them? You are denying them the opportunity to participate. I have not used push-ups (as I have cubs), but there have been times jumping jacks and "run a lap" has been employed for an individual or a small group to help burn off excess energy and promote betting listening skills in the scouts. I don't think its as much the type of punishment (as long as its not striking the boy), its the context in which its applied. I have done the jumping jacks with my scouts. The "run a lap" was an everyone gets to do it b/c scout A and scout B cannot stop jabbing at each other during the meeting. The positive peer pressure took care of any misbehalving after that! At pack meetings, I have often commented publicly that the Tigers are the first ones to quiet down when the cub scout sign goes up. This is often followed with a small verbal jab of, "You wolves, bears, and webelos are being shown up by the tigers..." - guess I shouldn't use this approach as it might EMBARRASS one of the wolfe, bear, or webelos scouts, eh? As a Boy Scout, I was made to haul picnic tables from one end of a campground to the other as punishment for acting out. Don't get started on how the PL's chose who got the task of taking the trash bags to the dumpster... but it was never the guys who did a good job of following the camp rules... was that a pad form of punishment? It was physically demanding, stunk like crap and was demeaning. If you were on trash patrol (unless you were crazy enough to volunteer for it) it was just assumed by the other scouts that you had gotten into trouble of some kind. Yes, we are to be "fostering the youth of our future". Part of that fostering is giving them real life examples of consequences (both positive and negative) for their choices and actions.(This message has been edited by DeanRx)
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Two things you state bother me a great deal.... 1) SM, CC refuse to show the books to the committe members or discuss how much is left in the account? WHAT? How can the committee plan the program if they have no idea how much money they have to opperate ?!?!? 2) CC and Treasurer are the same person ?!?! Not a good idea at all. SM, CC, and Treasurer should all be sepereate posistions and if at all possible not in the same family within the unit. Transparency builds confidence, secrecy breeds mistrust (even if there is no reason to suspect wrongdoing). If you are a registered committee member, time to have a talk with your COR or DE about the money handling within your unit. If you don't get a satisfactory answer, then you can always vote with your feet. Good luck - I don't envy you.
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Bad Shooting camp experience with NRA instructors
DeanRx replied to Cubmaster Mike's topic in Open Discussion - Program
I have not gone through the NRA training, but have served as range OIC in the Army for medical training units... trust me - most MD's are more dangerous with a firearm than any 8-18 y/o boy !!! Guess the docs are trying to drum up their own business or something. Had 3 docs verbally complaining about being forced to be "rodded off" an M-16 range by my NCOIC. Guess what, 3rd doc in line had a live round in the chamber when the NCO rodded his weapon! That shut them up fast about the "stupid rules". Anyways - there is a way to get the point across using a command voice without the need to humilate the offender. A stern, "Step back from the firing line now!" while pointing at the offender, followed by imediate movement towards the offender's station position should get their attention. Any other comment after the behavoir was corrected is just overkill and theatrics on the part of the rangemaster. The whole, "I've been shot before and i don't want it to happen again...." is just someone over-reacting and grandstanding their authority. Adress the issue, correct the offense, make sure the offender knows WHY what they did was wrong, and move on with life. Then - one rangemaster should take the offender aside and quietly explain WHY this was a potentially serious situation. Followed by the standard, "Thats your last warning. If you fail to follow the rangemaster's instruction any more, you are off the range for the day....no exceptions... Do you understand?" Then drop it. I'd say write your concerns to the camp director. They may or may not do anything to address the issue. While I do not support berating any scout, this was their range to run and to not fully support the rangemaster in the heat of the moment undermines their authority. Glad to see that did not happen. Because I have seen it happen on a BSA range. Dad of scout is active duty and took exception to his son getting a warning from rangemaster for placing the weapon upsidedown on the shooting table... thus possibly damaging the site alignment. Dad started in on the rangemaster... Rangemaster explained in a calm, but firm voice that it was HIS range and if anyone took exception to his instructions, they were free to depart the range. I, as CM, had to back the rangemaster. Not a fun position to be in. I agree some of the rangemasters I've seen at BSA events could use some refresher courses on interpersonal skills. Then again - I've never seen or heard of a scout getting injured on a BSA range, so they must be doing their job correctly, even if they step on some toes from time to time. -
Might I suggest a solution to the issue... 1) I would not want to discourage adult "helpers" - we have a hard enough time getting the volunteers we need. 2) We need to be diligent in providing oversight and protecting the youth. 3) Many units - probably more Troops than Packs, have adult leaders and volunteers that stick around after their scout has aged-out and help run the unit. Some do this in an offical capacity, others in an ad hoc capacity. What we have done in our pack... 1) Encourage every adult that wants to help to register as a committee member w/ the unit. This requires them to fill out the adult application and submit to the background check. 2) Once registered, even as just a committee member, they are then asked to do the YPG online training. This means we have a background check and YPG training for hte majority of the adults in the pack. Cost per year to register the adult w/ BSA as a committee member is just $10, I think, so a small investment for the safety of the scouts. Anyone that wants to volunteer (without their scout present) should have no problem filing out an application and spending 30 minutes doing online YPG. You can haggle with them over who pays for the $10 registration - either them or the unit. If an adult is not willing to submit to those conditions, then I'd politely refuse them the opportunity to participate in unit activities without their enrolled scout present. You could easily write such a policy into your unit bylaws, then everyone either plays by the rules, or can't play in your sandbox.(This message has been edited by DeanRx)
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Not to veer too far off topic... I was told by multiple folks at our council office that the ban on Lazer-tag and paintball (or any other game in which you "shoot" something at someone) was done under the guise of H&S. However, the REAL reason for the ban is not the injury rate, but the ideological stance that boys should be trained at all times to treat a potential weapon as a weapon. i.e. - BB Guns and Archery are only allowed on a range, with a rangemaster. Therefore any other simulated weapon should never be pointed / discharged towards another person. This, I have been told is the reason for the ban on lazer tag and paint-ball. Its not that these activities have any higher incidence of injury than some of the other activities scouts do on a regular basis. Its the illogical conclusion of why our kids can no longer play cowboys and indians at recess and use their hands with pointer finger out and thumb up and yell "bang, bang" at another kid. Someone, somewhere has decided that doing this as a young child makes it easier for kids to turn into Columbine / VT type students - thus we must not promote such an activity. BSA doesn't want to send a mixed message about weapon safety. Whether thats a correct idea or hogwash (which can be debated ad nauseum in another thread), it was the reason I have been given in multiple trainings from various folks within my council. The easiest place to address said issue is via a H&S policy. RichardB - welcome to these 'outside' forums, and if you are still lurking - please feel free to either confirm / deny / correct what I've been told by the San Diego-Imperial Council. YiS, DeanRx
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I hear they're tasty but its a lot of work getting all the hairs out of the meat!
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They have to have gone to EITHER Day camp or Resident Camp... just one, plus the other requirements that are specific for their rank year. Each year, the requirements get a little more advanced. (i.e. Tigers must do Acheivement #5 and 3 from the list, Wolves must do elective 23b and do 4 from the list) I have posted the award requirements below off of BSA website: ******************************************************************************************* Requirements - Outdoor Acitivity Award All Ranks Attend Cub Scout day camp or Cub Scout/ Webelos Scout resident camp. Rank-Specific Tiger Cubs. Complete one requirement in Achievement 5, Lets Go Outdoors (Tiger Cub Handbook) and complete three of the outdoor activities listed below. Wolf Cub Scouts. Assemble the Six Essentials for Going Outdoors (Wolf Handbook, Elective 23b) and discuss their purpose, and complete four of the outdoor activities listed below. Bear Cub Scouts. Earn the Cub Scout Leave No Trace Award (Bear Handbook, Elective 25h) and compete five of the outdoor activities listed below. Webelos Scouts. Earn the Outdoorsman Activity Badge (Webelos Handbook); and complete six of the outdoor activities listed below. Outdoor Activities With your den, pack, or family: Participate in a nature hike in your local area. This can be on an organized, marked trail, or just a hike to observe nature in your area. Participate in an outdoor activity such as a picnic or park fun day. Explain the buddy system and tell what to do if lost. Explain the importance of cooperation. Attend a pack overnighter. Be responsible by being prepared for the event. Complete an outdoor service project in your community. Complete a nature/conservation project in your area. This project should involve improving, beautifying, or supporting natural habitats. Discuss how this project helped you to respect nature. Earn the Summertime Pack Award. Participate in a nature observation activity. Describe or illustrate and display your observations at a den or pack meeting. Participate in an outdoor aquatic activity. This can be an organized swim meet or just a den or pack swim. Participate in an outdoor campfire program. Perform in a skit, sing a song, or take part in a ceremony. Participate in an outdoor sporting event. Participate in an outdoor Scouts Own or other worship service. Explore a local city, county, state, or national park. Discuss with your den how a good citizen obeys the park rules. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Information taken from BSA Publication 13-228 2004 Printing. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Page updated on: August 05, 2007