CubsRgr8

My younger son's pack is chartered to a School Friends Of Scouting group. It is a legal corporation, but it really doesn't exist. It was created to take over the charter from the elementary school's PTA when PTAs nationally were dropping BSA charters due to insurance liability concerns. The relationship between the CO and its pack is pretty intimate, because most pack leaders hold positions in the CO corporation.

My older son's troop has been chartered to the same Methodist church since 1922. The troop is provided with its own storage room and allowed exclusive use of the basement fellowhip hall on Tuesday evenings. The troop in return hosts Scout Sunday (complete with a free pancake brunch) and performs someservice work for the church, including an Eagle project every other year or so. My take on its relationship with its troop is benign neglect, which is too bad, because it could be so much more.

Thanks everybody and Bob White, I appreciate you exlaining the difference between being an OA candidate and an actual member. I did check out the website Venture mentioned and didn't see anything there that would help an OA candidate gain enough of an understanding about OA to get enthusiastic about it. Any suggestions?

Proud Dad moment here (stand back, I think my buttons are gonna burst!), my son was elected by his peers to the Order of the Arrow Tuesday night. He was surprised, but he is a frequent camper who knows how to take care of himself, pitches in for the patrol, and helps out the younger scouts. Neither of us know a lot about OA beyond that it's an honor/service society, so I'm wondering if there is a phamplet, book or website available that can help him better understand OA? Thanks in advance.(This message has been edited by CubsRgr8)

Bob White,

Sounds like this 3 program method is exactly what my older son's troop needs. Membership is hovering in the low 90s, with fully one third being new scouts who just crossed over. Being a boy-run troop, the PLC makes all the programming decisions.

The ASMs who work with the Troop Guides and the NSPs have a great program for that age group. They break out after the troop opening and spend about an hour working on basic skills. They add monthly campouts and service projects (April through June) to the mix. By the time July summer camp rolls around, any scout who participates will be comfortable sleeping in a tent he pitched, cooking his own meals over a fire or stove, and surviving in the woods. Most earn at least one rank by the end of summer camp, some more.

But get to the regular patrols and the program is non-existant. There are no assigned regular patrol ASMs. The PLC schedules an occasional guest speaker, but it's "advancement" most of the time. No patrol skill sessions, games or meetings. Just meet with merit badge counselors IF you remember to call them up and make an appointment. Arrg. You generally have poor attendance of scouts in this age range. Since the troop doesn't have venture patrols, attendance by older scouts is dismal.

Bob White, how would you get this troop to change its ways? Remember, the PLC makes all the decisions and parents (including troop committee members) are not invited to the PLC (we'd inhibit the scouts). This is a sincere request, because I can see my 7th grade son getting bored and losing interest in scouting.

It sounds like what I observe in my son's troop is the exception when a staff patrol is used. Unfortunately, that just underscores my concern that my son's troop does not use the patrol method very effectively.

I would greatly appreciate hearing how your troops structure their patrols. Are they permanent or reorganized annually? Are there NSP, regular and venture patrols? How do staff patrol members re-integrate into a regular patrol when their POR ends? Who decided that is was going to be the way it is - PLC, committee, SM? Can you think of any ways to improve how your troop structure their patrols?

This thread was spun from another thread.EagleFoot mentions that he's thinking about starting up a staff patrol when his troop is large enough. I say don't do it.

My son's troop has a staff patrol, which consists of the SPL, 2-3 ASPLs, 2-3 troop QMs, 4-6 TGs, and occasionally other troop positions, depending on whether or not most of their friends are in the staff patrol.

They tends to be older scouts (high school age), which results in low patrol attendance at troop meetings, campouts and activities.

They typically have the messiest campsite AND the most "personnel" issues during our week of summer camp.

The SPL has to act as a PL to in addition to being the troop's SPL.

When a scout is removed from his POR, he is assigned to another existing patrol, and usually disappears for a long time out of embarrasment.

These are my observations over the past two years. Does anyone's experience show otherwise?

Dave's new council sure is fortunate to get him. Heeeeeee's great!

I'm with acco40, hold two distinct ceremonies, one for AOL and one for crossover. FYI, the new Webelos handbook dropped filling out the application as an AOL requirement. I recommend troop leaders check out: http://usscouts.org/usscouts/advance/cubscout/webbadges.html.

Yesterday I had lunch with a nationally known security consultant. He said that the one thing we, as a nation, have done to improve our security and avoid a repeat of 9/11 is to take the war to the terrorists. Your link serves as a strong reminder why we need to continue to support that policy.(This message has been edited by CubsRgr8)

At den/troop meetings, campouts, field trips, etc., "Dad" stays at home and "Mr. C" is there. If anything, Mr. C is tougher on his own son.

The appropriateness of Mr. North as the featured speaker at a BSA function all comes down to this. Has he publicly repudiated his past activities which were in opposition to the values of BSA? Has he done his best to live his life since then in conformance to the values of BSA? The answer to both questions must be "yes" before I'll be attending or promoting that function.

The BOR for a scout consists of a non-registered parent (not his), a registered troop committee member, and a registered assistant scoutmaster. The scout passes the BOR, the advancment form is signed by the three BOR members and turned over to the troop committee member who handles advancement. The advancment form is then submitted to the council, where the scout's rank is entered into the national BSA database. Now, what happens when the scout is ready for Eagle? Does the council go back over his advancement forms to verify BOR membership and kick back his Eagle BOR request because of previous BOR irregularities?(This message has been edited by CubsRgr8)

scoutldr, if you don't like how G&T programming is run in your school district, do something about it instead of maligning those children who need it. Yes, that's right, G&T children NEED specialized education, no less than every other child needs an education that tailored to their abilities.

It sure looked like a real flag to me!

Milwaukee sends out one invoice to the unit popcorn sale coordinator (aka the kernal aka me). They have already done the calculation up front, because the commission is variable. It increases 2% from the base if you have a unit that: conducts both show & sell and take-order; has a kernal who attends orientation; and turns in full payment on time. It increases another 3% if the unit passes on the prizes. Sounds like your COR needs to attend a council meeting and raise this issue there. The DE really doesn't have any pull in this area.(This message has been edited by CubsRgr8)

The two packs I've served always rent a 4-6 lane track from a Boy Scout Troop. There are quite a few troops in Milwaukee that do this as a fundraiser for their units. They typically supply enough adults/scouts to run the whole show. The set up comes with simple computer software that records the time of each car in each heat. So, instead of a round-robin or double elimination, each scout's car races once in each lane and its the averaged race time that determines the winners. Tuesday night, that meant that each scout raced four times. BTW - a Tiger cub won the overall pack trophy! And it isn't just weight, because the car that weighted 4.95 oz didn't even place!

Sandy, here's some ideas for your consideration.

1) Sponser a workshop on a weekend for those boys whose parents are woodworking and/or painting challenged.

2) Have a separate adults catagory to minimize professionally crafted cars being raced by scouts. You can even sell the cars to the Dads, siblings, etc. as a fundraiser.

3) Race each rank separately and award a small trophy to the top three. Then race each rank's winner for the Pack trophies.

4) If you go with #3, have a couple of side activities available for boys to work on while they wait for the Pack finals.

5) EVery scout gets a certificate, recognizing something unique about their car (most colorful, best banana shaped, etc.).

6) Consider having the PWD as a special pack event, not during a regular Pack meeting time, to prevent the it from supplanting regular Pack meeting activities (recognitions, advancement, skits, etc.).

Have fun and delegate, delegate, delegate.

Milwaukee County Council only bills for their share and allows the units to retain their commission.

EagleInKY - would you be willing to come up to Milwaukee and teach your course? Seriously, what a great topic! I am thinking about asking my church to charter a troop in 2005, when my Webelos den is ready to cross over. Three of my Webelos attend the church and the closest troops are either too big or meet on Wednesdays (confirmation night, which runs 6-9 grades). A course like yours would be invaluable to me right now.

sm41 - a little off-topic, but in light of the above, please post about how and why your troop came into being and any advice (pitfalls to avoid, recruiting, etc.) you care to share.

Bob White - can you provide the catalog number for the brochure you mentioned? Thanks.

The advisor overstepped his place only when he stated that he would like to see everyone work towards earning a specific (protestant) religious award. If the crew is chartered to a local Campus Crusade, then his statement is perfectly acceptable. However, if the crew is chartered to a non-sectarian organization (say an American Legion Post), then the advisor is clearly in the wrong by promoting a specific religious award.

It is imperative that someone explain to the crew member that membership in a BSA crew requires belief in a higher power (most commonly referred to in the USA as "God"). Print out what EagleInKY posted and sit down with this youth. If he cannot in good conscience accept the concept of God as presented in those words, then he needs to find another youth organzation.

Why on Earth do you feel compelled to remove him from your unit? Unless he is proselytizing for "atheism" among members of the crews I'd let it go. It to me sounds like he IS proselytizing when he states that he is an atheist. Since the Venturing Oath states:

As a Venturer, I promise

to do my duty to God and help

strengthen America, to help others,

and to seek truth, fairness, and

adventure in our world.

why on earth would you encourage him to remain and be a hypocrite? We don't need any more Darrel Lamberts in scouting. Uhg, the very name turns my stomach.

What about a patrol activity? You don't need an adult leader for that, only the scoutmaster's okay.

Just to because I like being the old curmugeon sometimes, I have to ask: you can't miss even one practice, just one out of eight, in two months? Who's your coach, Stalin?

Now, for a more helpful answer, what about in-service days when you're out of school? My son's school district has 3.5 weekdays off in January and February. I wish there was a troop activity for him on at least one of those days.

The pack isn't out any money because this was a den fundraiser. As such, it's the den's treasury that is short the $90. I will involve another leader (probably the committee chair) and contact the mom via certified mail. I also think I need to verify that the popcorn was, in fact, delivered. After all, if it's sitting in the basement, he can just give it back to me and we'll sell it in the spring. I'll hold back the prize card for now and see where this goes over the next couple of weeks. Thank you all for your advice, I greatly appreciate it.

New Leaders Essentials was a good course. Unfortunately, my experience (last fall for Bears, this fall for Webelos) was that Cub Scout Leader Specific Training is anything but specific. It was just a general overview of the Cub Scouting program with one big group of 30 people each time with no breakouts by position at all. Bah! Yes, I provided feedback the first time, with no apparent affect. Since I am an ardent believer in "put-up-or-shut-up", I've offered to become a trainer - we'll see where that leads.

Each den in our pack handles den dues (setting the amount, collecting the money, and spending it) themselves. This fall, I asked the scouts in my den (Webelos 1) to sell $150 worth of popcorn (32% commission) or pay $50 den fees. I use the proceeds to pay for den supplies, 100% of their annual registration fee, 50% of the cost of Boys Life, and 50% of the admission price to sports, theatre, etc.

One scout turned in an order for $226 worth of popcorn. A week later, he picked up the popcorn. Now, two months later, he still has not turned in all the money - he's about $90 short. I spoke with his mother once and have left many phone messages that the three of us need to sit down and figure this out. No response. The scout comes to den meetings, is enthusiatic, and really needs scouting.

I am at a loss as to what I should do next. Should I withhold his prize ($10 Walmart card) and require that he pay his registration fee? I don't want to lose this kid (like I said, he REALLY needs scouting), but I can't ignore this, now can I? Sage words of wisdom would be appreciated.