CubsRgr8

Someone needs to educate your DE that packs are not "assigned" to troops, even if they share the same unit number and charter organization! That said, your council covers a huge geographic territory and it just might be (sad to say) that there aren't any other packs closer to you than the two previously mentioned. I went noodling around and came of with this link: http://www.bsa-la.org/index.html Besides provding links to some unit websites, there's a link for each District's website. These in turn have some additional unit links. For a great example of how a council can promote pack/troop research, check out this webpage posted by my council: http://www.milwaukeeboyscouts.org/unit_locator.htm Good luck to you!

The more I hear, the more it sounds like my son's troop does it right - they don't ever attend council summer camp! Instead, they go up to a state forest campsite every summer for a week and run their own program for 70+ scouts. While at summer camp: patrols camp together and cook most of their own meals; there are daily patrol contests; mornings are for advancement (advancement for scouts not yet 1st class - merit badges (although usually just a dozen) for the rest); afternoons and evenings are either camp activities or free time; the PLC meets every evening at 8; BORs are held on site; there's a camp or patrol campfire every night; and the day concludes with the bugler playing taps.

Check out: http://www.usscouts.org/usscouts/advance/venturing/Quest.html I often find usscouts.org to be an excellent source of up to date information.

Future Games, where was the charter organization in all of this?

Hold it, TrailPounder! If you cede Chicago to us cheeseheads (and proud of it!), then we'll be stuck with the Bears - shudder! Go Pack!

Two separate, yet related, commments.

I agree 110% that Quality is the minimum standard for which we should strive. However, the problem I'm seeing here is taking what I perceive was originally a volunteer assessment criteria and applying it to professional staffers. Rational job assessment criteria must be objective, measurable and pertinent. I don't see how a district or council earning the Quality designation is pertinent to a professional staffer's job performance. Earning Quality does not measure improvement, it's merely a yes-no test that really doesn't tell you anything.

In my council, the charter year runs Feb - Feb, so signing up 300+ new venturers in December would cost significantly less than $3K. Is that also the case in your council, Eamonn? If so, I could see the professional staffer willing to fork over the cash himself in order to make Quality, and thereby assure himself of getting a decent annual review.

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DS - you're starting to sound like Gandalf!

OK, I'll bite: what's a Juliette?

Thanks for the great ceremony! I've been looking for something cool for our AOL ceremony coming up in February and this is it!

My son's troop, which I serve as a MC:

How many boys registered? - 70.

How many boys active? - 35.

How many Patrols? - 8 - including POR scouts in a separate patrol.

Does your troop go to summer camp in or out of Council? - out of council.

Does your troop go to Dist/Council Camporees - Rarely.

Does your troop support FOS? - Yes.

Does your troop sell Popcorn? - No, wreathes.

Does your troop use NSP, FCFY method? - Yes, very successfully.

Does your troop have a Venture Patrol? - No.

Does your troop have a feeder pack? - No, it draws primarily from 3 elementary school packs.

How does your troop recruit non-Cub Scouts? - No.

Has your troop seen your Unit Commissioner in the past 6 months? - No.

Is your Unit Commissioner helpful or a pain? - N/A.

Does your troop leaders attend Roundtable? - SM yes, others no.

How many members are on your troop committee? - maybe 6.

Is your troop boy led? - No.(This message has been edited by CubsRgr8)

I don't have a canned ceremony to share with you, just some thoughts. I'd call forward the scout, with his parents, and briefly recount his achievements. If he's a little older, perhaps incorporate lighting candles for each rank he's earned. Present him with a small scrapbook about the pack that has some pictures (include names), a unit transfer form, and a copy of your pack's records of his achievements. To keep it from getting maudlin, have the whole pack participate in a rousing send-off cheer.

I'd also contact the DE in his new district and ask him (or her) to contact the scout at his new address with info about units in his area. Moving is hard on a boy - being able to hook up with a new unit right away will make it a little easier and increase the probability that he stays in scouting.

Point of Order! The new 2003 edition of the Webelos handbook incorporates earning beltloops in the requirements of some of the activity badges. For example, a Webelos MUST earn the citizenship beltloop to earn his Citizen Activity Badge.

I can think of only three reasons that the CM would even think Tigers shouldn't come to the B&G. No room (it's always in the church basement) - find a bigger space. No money (cause the pack caters) - charge a nominal fee. Tradition (Tigers are not part of the pack) - time to update the traditions book. Lke 2CD said, come prepared with solutions when you meet with the CM - hey! Wait a minute! Why is this an issue with the CM? Organizing the B&G is a pack committee responsibility and should not fall on the shoulders of the CM, broad and strong as they might be. As a former CM, I know whereof I speak!

Yes, I am a council registered Reading MB Counselor. I am surprised that the MB book isn't required, but I will continue to encourage the scout to borrow or purchase the current edition.

The five merit badges I counsel are not very labor intensive (Reading, Communications, Computers, Architecture and Cycling), so I would gladly register for a couple more, if allowed.

DS, your second take on my question was correct. Sometimes it's hard to tell whether a council policy was imposed by the professions or by the volunteers. Now I know which approach to take to see if I can get it changed. Thanks.

Last night, at the troop meeting, a scout approached me about the Reading MB. He had a signed blue card but not a copy of the merit badge book. Our troop library doesn't have a copy of this particular MB book. Instead, he had printed the requirements out of MertitBadge.com, along with their worksheets. He does not intend for get a copy of the MB book. Is possession of the MB book is considered a requirement? My notes from MB training do not address this issue.

Two days ago, I received the renewal letter for serving as a MB counselor. I'm registered for five, the maximum the council will allow. Yet, the letter pleads for additional counselors for about a dozen MB badges (including one or two I'd be willing to add to my portfolio). What's the internal process for getting my council to allow us to register for more than five?

It will get better! Don't give up! My comments follow some of your italized originals.

Recently my Tiger Den was dissolved because the only boys that came was my own and my co-leaders son. If you like the original pack, a Tiger group of two boys and their parents is okay. I have observed that some parents don't want to make the commitment required of Tigers but are very willing for their boys to start next year as Wolves. Our current Wolf den of eight boys only had three when they were Tigers.

The Cubmasters keep saying they will get us trained but it has yet to happen. It seems like whenever I have questions about funds, advancements, uniforms, etc. I run into a brick wall. Training is usually offered by the geographic District or Council that serves your unit. Find out the phone number of the Council office, call during working hours, and they'll help you find the next available training session. Also, FastStart training is available on-line at the www.scouting.org.

I am constantly being told that "I'll get back to you", I am still waiting. Sounds like the pack leadership is overloaded.

From what I have seen in the new pack they do not go by the book, the boys run around like wild indians, Not going by the book is a problem. Boys running wild is an easier problem to correct, if the Cubmaster and leadership are trained. It sounds like they aren't, which might explain why you get the brush-off when you mention training.

and no effort is made to even think of doing any kind of projects that would go with the monthly theme or the Tiger Cub achievements. Projects generally aren't part of a pack meeting. A pack meeting is about giving the boys a chance to demonstrate something they did/learned/tried in the previous month, sing some silly songs and/or perform a silly skit, AND about recognizing boys as they advance towards and beyond their rank. I would never expect the pack meeting to contain any activity that counts towards a Tiger achievement.

Is this going on with other dens? Yes.

Does it get better in the Wolf and Bear's? If those den leaders make it better.

My two boys worked hard for their beads and are almost ready to get their Tiger Cub patch, but now it is like starting all over from the beginning. Work already completed by your Tigers in a previous pack counts and does not have to be redone. If they've earned their beads and badges, the boys should get them at the very next pack meeting. They DO NOT have to wait for the other boys to catch up to them.

Bottom Line: Take a hard look at both Packs. The Pack that is better organized, where the Cubmaster and leaders are BSA trained, and you can easily visualize your son and yourself spending four years there, is the Pack for you.

ASM7 - take a look at this with the youth minister: http://www.umcscouting.org/ Click the link to Training and scroll down to a powerpoint presentation which you can download called: 10 Reasons To Consider Scouting A Ministry. There are a few references that you might need to update or make specific to your area, but it looks rather worthwhile. Perhaps this will help her see the value of having your congregation starting up a venture crew.

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Based on reading between the lines, I say go with the den leader position and let the COR recruit someone else for the committee chair. A pack can hobble along without a committee chair, but a den is lost without a den leader. Both positions require work and trying to do both will probably short-change one or the other (or both!).

That's right - my YP instructor confirmed it last spring. Although... who in their right mind would want to run a cub scout den meeting without another adult present!

One year as a youth (law explorer post - no camping ) and four years as an adult (love that summer camping ).

Several troops in my neck of the woods offer a weekend cabin camp outing in December/January as a recruitment tool. The Webelos and parents join the troop Saturday late morning and stay through Sunday.

Keeping these scouts as webelos until September 2004 is a great decision, Sender! They'll get to enjoy a Webelos resident camp experience this summer that is designed specifically for them. That in turn will lay the groundwork for enjoying Boy Scout summer camp the following summer of 2005.

Sounds like your webelos are pretty advanced, so I recommend finding the best resident camp session you can for summer 2004, even if that means going outside of your council. What would make it the best? IMHO: webelos only; at least 4 days, 3 nights; offering specific activity badge workshops; sleeping in tents; and a great setting, deep in the woods (or, high in the mountains).

Have a great time with your den, it'll be over before you know it!

I heartily recommend a new scout patrol IF:

1) the NSP has at least one Troop Guide assigned to it, a scout who really wants to help, not just fulfill a POS requirement for his rank;

2) the NSP has at least one ASM assigned to it, working with the TG to make sure that each boy has the opportunity to earn 1st Class within a year of joining;

3) the NSP PL job rotates monthly, so that every boy gets a chance to attend a PLC and get a feel for leadership and no one boy gets saddled with trying to be a leader before he is a 1st class scout; and

4) the SM support the idea, because without it, nothing happens in a troop.

Those are just my observations, based on my son's experience with his troop over the last two years.

Communications is great - of course, I'm a counselor for it. Since it's Eagle required, I enjoy working with the older scouts. You should see the look on some of their faces when I tell them that they really have to actually develop a plan teach a skill, teach the skill, and then I check with them to see if the student has learned the skill. LOL

DS - I hate to be contrary, but.

Number 1: How does a rule that applies to BSA council camps get extrapolated into a general rule that applies throughout BSA?

Number 2: How would I, as a troop committee member, know it's a rule if it isn't in GTSS? We don't go to council camps (we run our own - definitely a future thread topic), there is no required training to be a pioneering MB counselor, we don't go to COPE courses, it wasn't even hinted at in Troop Committee training, so just when was I supposed to find out about this rule?

Number 3: How do we get this rule changed?

I've heard that unit numbers are assigned to charter organizations, who may choose to release them if the unit doesn't recharter. How unit numbers are handled when a CO no longer cares or exists is a good trivia question.