CubsRgr8

My district held its fall camporee this weekend. Webelos 2 were invited to come out Saturday and spend the night. Webelos 1 were invited for the day on Saturday. I took five of my eleven Webelos 1 and we had a great time.

The district offered the Forester and Outdoorsman activity badges for the Webelos and Fire Safety for the Boy Scouts. We attended Forester and learned a little, tromped through the woods, played tag, climbed trees, ate dinner (chicken cordon cheddar? - cooked in dutch ovens) with a great troop , and enjoyed a spectacular sunset.

No complaints, no concerns, just wanted to share this example of the program working well in Cheesehead Land. To steal Barry's line - I love this scouting stuff!(This message has been edited by CubsRgr8)

DS, I'm going to disagree with you about it being the parents' decision as to whether this boy belongs in a Bear or Webelos den. Doesn't that program leave that decision to the Cubmaster? I'm not comfortable leaving the decision to parents who usually are unfamiliar with the age appropriate activities developed specifically for each rank in Cub Scouting.

If he remains in a Webelos 1 den this year, what happens next year when he earns his AOL as a 9 year old? Is he ready to cross over into a troop? Not likely. How many troops are ready to modify their program for a 9 year old? Not many.

Given that the boy is homeschooled (so he does not have classroom buddies), given that wblsman doesn't provide any additional background information, I err on the side of caution and say again, this boy belongs in a Bear den.

Hey! I'm a poet and I didn't even know it but my feet show it - they're long fellows!

I strongly agree with Bob White, you can't and shouldn't even try to mediate between this poor boy's parents. Don't let your fear of losing one volunteer prevent you from providing a good Cub Scouting experience for the other boys in your pack. I also agree that the Wolves need to be split up into three dens. Maybe Joe and his cousin will end up in the den needing leaders, giving Mom & Stepdad the opportunity to put up or shut up.

It sounds like Dad thinks he really wants to be a den leader, not a Cubmaster. I would speak with Dad and explain that, as Cubmaster, he will be very involved with his son over the next four years. He will lead Pack meetings, outings, campouts, ceremonies, etc. in which his son participates. He will proudly award his son his awards, ranks, and maybe even his Arrow of Light. His son will beam with pride to see his Dad up in front, a leader and role model not just for him, but for all the boys.

I invite Dad to send me a Private Message (use the face/PM icon) and I'll gladly answer any questions about being a Cubmaster. I truly enjoyed being Cubmaster and feel it will "be a great way to spend time with his son."

Milwaukee's PowWow is coming up November 15, cohosted with another council, Potawatomi. The link is: http://www.milwaukeeboyscouts.org/training.htm#powwow I estimate that several hundred people attended last year (including me!) and I'll be back this year. Which reminds me - time to register!

Milwaukee also cohosts the Five Star University of Scouting every winter, coming up on January 31, 2004 (Five Star because five councils are the cohosts).

wblsman, welcome to the forum.

This boy belongs in a Bear den! Although the boy in question is academically advanced, he still is an 8 year old boy and belongs in a Bear den. He needs to interact with other boys his own age, in order to grow his own social skills.

You may get some static from the parents, as they worry about their son being "bored". Assure them that the Bear program is especially great for accomodating boys who are academically advanced. Since he only needs to complete 12 of 24 requirements, that leaves the other 12 requirements, plus numerous electives, open to him to work on at his own pace. There's no way he'll be bored!

You can also explain, if necessary, that the program in Cub Scouting is specifically designed to challenge the typical boy with age appropriate activities in all areas: physical, intellectual, social, academic. Tiger for boys 6-7 years old, Wolf for boys 7-8 years old, Bear for boys 8-9 years old, and Webelos for boys 9-11 years old. This age-appropriate program, developed over 50 years, is one of the great strengths of Cub Scouting.

Good luck, us parents can be really bears to deal with!

BW, my council has dropped Webelos Leader Outdoor Training completely. I'll be forced to attend a session at another council if I want it (and I do!). Unfortunately, I'll have to wait until next spring, as nobody in this neck of the woods offers it during winter.

KS, I agree with your comments. Patrol positions (other than PL) do not count for rank advancement, but they certainly help a scout in his advancement, as well as prep him to assume similar PORs later during his scouting adventure.

Ed, the PL handbook talks about assigning every patrol member a patrol position. So, in that sense, every member of a troop should have an assigned position. Some of the positions serve the troop, some serve the patrol. Do you disagree with the value of that idea? If you do, why?

KS, I agree with your comments. While patrol positions do not meet POR requirements for rank advancement (nor should they), they most certainly help a scout in his advancement and prepare him to assume similar PORs later in his scouting adventure.

It is hard to respond, as your post does not list anything specific. So, here's my general take on the situation.

Adult volunteer membership (den leaders, cubmaster, committee members, etc.) is reviewed and approved by the Charter Organization, usually by the Chartered Organization Representative (COR). If the COR is not satisfied with the actions of the committee, it is the COR's obligation to meet with the committee and discuss the issues as hand.

Perhaps dedicating a committee meeting where the COR brings in a District Trainer and holds a review of New Leader Essentials would help the committee regain its focus. However, if the committee continues to disregard the instructions of the COR, then the COR must step up to the plate and remove those individuals who are the cause of the problem. Ideally, the COR will have replacements ready before a removal occurs, replacements who accurately understand the BSA Cub Scouting program and are willing to provide it to the youth your pack serves.

I thought the charter organization made the decision whether or not a crew would be coed, not the members. Given that coed imposes a significant set of additional responsibilities upon the charter organization, I surprised that it would (apparently) leave that decision up to the crew members.

The reason to establish these other patrol positions has nothing to do with advancement. It's all about building a sense of patrol identity and spirit. If each member of a patrol has a specified role to play (grubmaster, cheermeister, etc), then each member is able to more clearly see how how he fits into the patrol, how the patrol needs and values him for his abilities. Then hopefully, each patrol member is motivated to participate in as many patrol outings as possible, not just the ones that are convenient.

Last year, my Bear den met from 3:30 - 4:30, right after school. Snack was first and it didn't take me long to figure out - no sugar! Go with cheese & crackers, apples & peanut butter, but no sugar! Also, make sure there's some physical activity, especially when the weather turns and they aren't allowed outside for recess. One of our favorites was running relay races down the halls.

Eagledad gave me some great advice for an oversized Webelos 1 den (I have 11) and it seems to be working. Here's how I would adapt his advice to your situation.

Generally

Each den retains its current registered WDL. They attend the leader meetings, roundtables, etc. They monitor scout advancement and schedule activities, field trips, etc. They open and close the den meetings. They do NOT teach any activity badges. That responsibility falls to the families of the scouts.

Next step, divide each oversized den into two or three subdens. All subdens meet together for the den meeting opening and closing (run by the WDL). They then separate and go off to separate activities which last 20-30 minutes (depending on the number of subdens). After the first session is done, they rotate to the next.

In this setup, the WDL functions much like a scoutmaster and the families function much like merit badge counsellors. The WDL needs to have a well-though out master plan and must actively recruit families as coordinators. Families that do not want to coordinate an activity badge can take on a support function (attend summer camp, handle paperwork, be an AWDL).

Specifically

This month, while we work on Communicator, my den will have two den meetings and one field trip. A scout who attends all three will complete 5 requirements. The other 2 needed (7 total) are on his own. Miss a den meeting? Do 2 more on your own. All work done on his own must be brought in for me to review.

Just like recruiting pack leadership, I identified who would be the best family for this activity badge, spoke with them, explained exactly what I wanted them to do, and closed the deal in ten minutes. So far, it's working great - thanks Eagledad!

MarkNoel,

BSA, and by extension COL, is a not a public accomodation. Therefore, it cannot violate the Fair Practices Ordinance. Rather, this case is remarkably similar to San Diego and the Balboa Park lease. Those arguing in favor of evicting COL on the basis of FPO must believe that the CITY is guilty of violating its own ordinance by providing free use of city land to a private organization which legally (by virtue of its private nature) observes one or more of the discriminatory practices banned by said ordinance.

Furthermore, as I read the definitions section, it is those City facilities and services which function as public accomodations (such as swimming pools, libraries, trash collection) that are subject to this ordinance. The property in question is NOT a City facility or service which functions as a public accomodation. Therefore, the crux of the matter must be that the City Solicitor agrees with your idea that "the grant of free use of city land to COL can be construed as a "city service" (my italics).

I don't know if you and the City Solicitor are correct. Common sense tells me that there must be other relationships which tread in these uncertain water. Are there no other "sweetheart" deals with private organizations which legally observe one or more of the discriminatory practices banned by FPO? I think there must be. For the City to single out COL and ignore other such situations raises the issue of equal access.

Finally (LOL!), it's hard for me to reconcile the word "perpetuity" and a one year unilateral cancellation clause, both of which allegedly occur in the 1928 ordinance - they seem too contradictory. That's why I would like to read the text of that ordinance. Frankly, the best resolution is for COL and the City to come to terms whereby COL purchases the property for its fair market value, while receiving credit for the costs it incurred in constructing, maintaining and renovating the property over the past 75 years.

This will link you to the City of Philadelphia's Fair Practices ordinance: http://municipalcodes.lexisnexis.com/codes/philadelphia/ If you can figure out how the COL deal violates it, well, you've got a better legal mind than I.

I was told that I would get the helps that went with my primary registration. Ergo, I get Cubs.

NJ,

It was a no-rent lease that under its own terms, could be terminated on a year's notice.

But how do you know any of this? Did you read the text of the 1928 agreement or are you relying on media accounts? I, for one, would like to actually read the text of the 1928 agreement. I did read the Fair Practices ordinance (the text is available through the City's website) and don't see how it directly applies to COL or any other occupant of City property.

MarkNoel,

I described the 1928 agreement as an ordinance because when I contacted the City Solicitor's office, the staff attorney I spoke with referred to it as an ordinance and informed me that the text of the 1928 agreement is bound in the the 1928 Ordinances Volume, found in the City Archives. Unfortunately, those volumes are not available online, hence my request to Laurie.

I indeed want to hear from the reporter, Linda Harris, and not the City Solicitor. I asked her, and her newspaper, to publish the text of both the 1928 agreement and the Fair Practices ordinance, not to provide a legal analysis of the situation. The press has an obligation to provide the public with the facts, so that we are able to form our own opinions, based on these facts.

Finally, speaking of facts, the City Solicitor's opinion is just that, an opinion, and should not be construed (that's my weekly vocabulary word) as fact. Should the leadership of COL have the gumption to challenge it in court, the court decision may very well show him to be wrong. It wouldn't be the first time.

Laurie, are you able to post the text of 1) the 1928 ordinance granting COL use of the property in question; and 2) the Fair Practices ordinance COL is alleged to be violating? I find it hard to believe that the 1928 ordinance doesn't grandfather COL and protect it from the Fair Practices ordinance.

I sent this same request to the reporter at the paper, Linda Harris, but so far no response from her. Sad, I used to think the press had an obligation to present us with the pertinent facts so that we, the public, could make informed decisions about public issues. Nowadays, it seems, the press is little more than yellow jounalism - let's rile up the public so they /buy more papers/watch our broadcast/listen to our talk show/visit our website/.

Ooops.(This message has been edited by CubsRgr8)

Thursday night 22 (!) boys signed up - 12 tigers, 6 wolves, 3 bears and 1 webelos - a 50% increase for us. What really helped was that we also sent home a schedule with the flyers that listed all pack meetings and activities for the year.

Merlyn, Boy Scouts are learning that actions and decisions have consequences, some favorable and some not. They are learning that some positions of BSA are not popular with certain segments of society.

BSA is not about being popular (thank God!). BSA is about a million adult volunteers preparing young people (about three million) to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law. Avowed homosexuals and atheists are not considered appropriate role models for those values, and are therefore excluded from membership.

Merlyn, Boy Scouts are learning that actions and decisions have consequences, some favorable and some not. They are learning that some positions of BSA are not popular with certain segments of society.

BSA is not about being popular (thank God!). BSA is about a million adult volunteers preparing young people (about three million) to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law. Avowed homosexuals and atheists are not considered appropriate role models for those values, and are therefore excluded from membership.

It is really inappropriate for the SM to vent about this situation in a SM minute - as if everyone didn't know just who he was talking about. In fact, I'm appalled! The scout may not have acted very trustworthy, but I challenge the SM to explain how this was courteous, kind, or friendly!

Try this link: http://www.prismatic.com/troop103/jl-jobs.htm - I just love Google!

Please tell us more about the pack's "cake drawing"! I'm starving!