CNYScouter

MaScout- according to Goolge maps about 300 miles. I'm hoping to have a "first nighter" togehter by the end of May/beginning of June to a least get the kids on the water this summer. From talking with the DE there is scattered interest in the council for a ship, its just no one has stepped up before to try and put it together. This DE is in a different district and is very good at getting things done. I have been told the council has been trying to put a Sea Scout Ship together for quite a while but have been trying in a different area of our council. Most of my councils western border is Lake Ontario and its northern border is the St. Lawerance River. The closest I am to this is over 1 hour drive. I live in the most densely populated part of the council. One of the problems is that it is not that heavly populated. I have been told thare are organizations interested in chartering a Ship in these areas but no one willing to be a leader.

The meeting with the Yacht Club went very well last night. Once they understood how the insurance and liability worked for the Scouts the whole money issue went away. They have asked that the Ship pay for some of the maintenance costs for the boats. It will be a set fee that we will need to work out but wont be more than a few hundred dollars a year. Its not a done deal yet but I am pretty sure it will happen. Another existing thing happen this week also. Between Tuesday night when I saw the DE at SM training and last he had received a call from a retired rear admiral who had just moved into the area. He wanted to know why with all the lakes and river systems we have there isnt a Sea Scout Ship in the council and he was willing to help in anyway to get something started. He had already called the Navel Reserve Center about a ship. They said they would like to be involved also and could offer a place to meet in the wintertime. Things are starting to come together.

Can 2 organizations serve as the CO of a unit? As anyone ever been with a unit hat has done this? If you have read my other posts about the Sea Scout Ship I am trying to start, I have been looking for a CO for a Sea Scout Ship. A Yacht/Sailing Club has come forward and an American Legion also. The Yacht Club is only open about 6 months a year and we would need to find a place to meet during the winter months (I'm thinking the American Legion). The American Legion Post has a good deal of Scouters as members but is not located near water (not a concern in winter) The other thing is that they are in different districts. I may just ask the Post if it would be possible if the ship could just meet there during the winter. Any thoughts?

The DE and I are meeting with the Yacht Club tonight. I have expressed my concerns to the De about having them as a CO. I'll let everyone know what happens. Thanks(This message has been edited by CNYScouter)

The DE and I am meeting with the Yacht Club tonight. I have expressed my concerns to the De about having them as a CO. I'll let everyone know what happens. Thanks

To answer a few questions and to add more information. I've had no help from my council in finding a CO for a Sea Scout Ship. My county I split into 3 districts and I have tlked with all of them none of the DE's have found a CO. When I meet with the commodore of the Yacht Club a couple of months ago, he was very enthusiastic at a Ship, but he seemed more interested in using the Sea Scout Ship to boost membership and using the Scouts as a charitable organization to have boats donated to the club. He also wanted every family to join the yacht club at $400 per year plus he wanted a few to use the sail boats. I basically said no thanks as I thought the asking families to join the yacht club at this cost would turn people away. Doing service was the only part of Scouting he was interested in. The club does a service project of clearing a water plant that was clogging the waterways here. He was not into uniforms, cerimonies, the formal organization of a ship or the advancment part. He just called me again (with not much enthusiasm) and said that the rest of the club wanted to make this happen. The DE will be at this meeting also. The plus to them is they do own a dozen or so boats from canoes to sailboats and are willing to supply consultants to teach the Ship sailing. They have a club house and boat storage on the water, but because the club has no heat it is open only 6 months a year. At one time (about 20 years ago) they did have a SEa Scout Ship as an Explorer Post but it was not much more than a sailing club for the members kids.

Another organization has come forward and offered to be the CO for a Sea Scout Ship. I will be meeting with them this week. Next week I am to meet with an American Legion Post about being the CO for a Ship. So, which do you think would make a better CO? The organization (a Yacht/Sailing Club) that owns itas own boats but didn't seem very interested or understood Scouting. Or The American Legion Post that already has a troop and understands scouting but no boating/sailing experiance equipment? What would you ask these organizations about being a CO?

There is a white water rafting outfitter in the Poconos that offers what is supposed to be the best white-water in the East for younger scouts (11-12). We went a few years ago in April and it was a pretty good challenge for the younger guys and was intersting enough fot the older scouts too. I don't remeber the name of the place though.

scoutldr- Unrealistic or not, I was told due to insurance reasons, that in my council in a couple of years, it will be required for any adult going on a Troop/Crew overnight has to have SM/Basic Outdoor skills training. Here in NY, a law just went into effect that all staff at youth camps, must have a background check and any adult (over 18) staying in camp is considered staff. So, this year we must register any adult attending summer camp as a leader, along with the councils manditory training (all leaders must be trained in their position) This is not very far off.

Beavah wrote: If you've got them on your committee because somewhere along the line someone was dumb enough to invite everyone to be on the committee, then yah, it's always a drag on the SM. In my experience, open committees only work with like-minded folks; and sometimes not even then. Every parent bein' on da committee is definitely not the BSA model program. After being in a troop with no committee (SM and CC made all decisions) and now being in a Troop that is run by committee (they make all troop decisions), and invites all parents to be on the committee, I am starting to think that having only essential committee members is the way to go. What positions do you think would be essential to making a unit run? Any insight on what to look for in a person who would make a good committee member? OK, now to throw a curve. How do you handle adult leaders (what position do you put them in)when your council is going to manditory training and has siad in a few years any adult going on overnights will need to have SM?Outdoor training?

I have been trying to find an Sea Scout Ship close-by to visit. The closest active Ship I have found is over 3 hours away. I have subscribed to the a Sea Scout discussion list (SeaScout-Net) but haven't received an e-mail from it in months. Which discussion board should I be on? This forum has been about the only place I have been reading about Sea Scouts. I'll have to find out about the 501c3 status and see about my council accepting donations for the Ship.

emb021- I did contact the US Power squadron in this area a few months back. The only reply was the ship would be welcome at any of their training sessions, no offer of any other help. I will contact them again once I get a ship up and going to see what assistance I could get from them. I have had very little help from council or the American Legion Scouting Reps to put this together and have been pretty much on my own. I do have the name of my Sea Scout Regions Commodore and will contact him Thanks

After 8 months of working through my council and having no results to find a CO for a Sea Scout Ship, I have been working on my own to find a CO. I did not have any luck with any of the local marinias or Yacht/Sailing clubs so on the advice from the American Legions Statewide Scouting Chairman I wrote to all the local American Legions and VFW Posts in my area asking if they would charter a Sea Scout Ship. After sending out 10 letters I have recived just one responce. They have asked me to do a 10 minute presentation at thier next meeting. This presentation should include what the Ship wants from the Post and a brief explanation about what Sea Scouts is. This post already has a Troop and is where my district holds our monthly roundtable. Any suggestions on the presentation?

I just recieved a letter from our council about a new law here in New York State that requires all Staff members of any youth camps have to go through a background check. Any person staying in camp over the age of 18 is considered to be "on staff". This year any adult attending summer camp will need to be registered with the BSA. The letter went on to say that any adult that refuses will be asked to leave camp. I was told that in the next few tears our council will be requiring any adult (over 18) to have SM and Outdoor Skills training to attend a Troop campout. I was told this is due to our councils liability insurance policy requiring it.

Last night I was looking through the Sea Scout Officers Specialized Training powerpoint presntation, and on the slide withthe Chart about the Ship organization it does show Crew Leaders (another confusing term. The next slide talks about Crew Leaders & Assistants. * For administrative purposes, the ships company often is divided into crews of about eight * Each crew elects its own crew leader and assistant crew leader from members of the crew. * Each crew leader has the job of molding his or her crew members into a working unit. * He or she is responsible for the conduct and participation at ship meetings and activities. It sounds like your ship is reacdy to move to this step and be divided into Crews with Crew leaders

Eamonn - Sounds like a good problem to have! In my area it seems that Troops and crews often have adult leadership but can't seem to draw in any youth members. I know of many Troops that have as many adults involved as Scouts. It seems that the same goes with Venture Crews. Venture Crews seem to have no problem finding adults willing to be leaders, but the youth don't want to be involved. I am still trying to find a CO willing to charter a ship. I hope I can be as sucessful as you in recruiting youth, when/if I can find a CO.

hikeoholic- Congrats on making the choice to bring back your experience into Scouting. I have found that the units that seem to have no problem in recruiting new members do no recruiting at all. They run a Scouting program that draws youth and leaders. So, start thinking about how to improve your Troop's overall program. The best way to grow in numbers is to keep the Scouts you have interested Does the Troop use an NSP? This seems to be the best way to keep your new scouts in the program. Your scouts do the best recruiting. Have them bring a friend. Hold a Troop Open house and offer some type of incentive, some on this forum say that something as simple as a candy bar will work, to anyone who brings in a new member. Do this for any scout that brings a friend to a meeting. You may be able to find a local sporting goods store that will give you small items (fishing tackle, small camp tools, EMS gave my sons Troop $10 gift cards) to use as an incentive. Perhaps offering a reward to the first patrol that has 8 members by recruiting new scouts. Offer a pizza party or some thing non-monetary like the adults have to do the patrols dishes on the next camping trip. On Kudos web site (great place for information)you will find School Presentation for Recruiting Sixth-Graders By Rick Seymour http://www.inquiry.net/adult/recruiting.htm This is a presentation for sixth graders that the author says will consistently recruit 12-20 sixth graders every year. Ive never tried this myself but I would like to try this someday if I get the time. Try to find other leaders who are willing to help in this and feel the same way you do. Trying to do this alone will make it nothing but an uphill battle. Good Luck

I couldn't agree more with The key is to keep boys focused on the path to eagle while exposing them to as many different things that they normally would not be exposed to. I do not see anything wrong with the BSA program and needing to go back to "old school" Scouting. The emphasis on Advancement is made by adults who want to "Eagle" on the sons College app or resume and want the fastest way to get it. "New school" items can be taught (GPS, white-water kayaking etc.) using the same Scouting principles, if and only if adult leaders want to use them. During SM Training advancement is given very little time, but yet there are troops that everything they do deals with getting their Scouts to Eagle. Same can be said of Scout Spirit. At our SM Training/Outdoor Leader skills each patrol has to come up with a name , a flag and a yell. But, very few use this when they go back to their units. If adult leaders are not willing to use the things that are taught during training there is not much you can do.

Ronvo asked- Has anyone seen a really great by led troop? Does it really depend on the skills of the SM - I think so. I have seen a really great boy led trrop. One of my patrol advisors when I took SM Training was in a large Troop (75+). I visited them on a campout and saw this in action. Does it depend on the skills of the SM? I think so. This Troop always has had a great program and has been this size for over 50 years. They do it by finding and selecting the right person for SM. Question for msnowman- Why do you say you can't use the patrol method with only 4 boys? It doesn't take 2 patrols to use the patrol method. It works better with more than one patrol and 6 to 8 scouts in a patrol, but it can be used with less just not as effective. 1. Is your troop boy led? No, my son's troop is not boy led. The adults have decided that since the Scouts are so busy with other activities the Troop would be a place they didn't have make decisions and have things done for them so adult do all of the planning. 2. Do you make good use of the patrol method? Troops is broken up into patrols and begins Troop meetings standing in patrols but that is it. No patrol competitons. Monthly outings are poorly attended with only 6 or 7 out of 30 scouts attending so patrols are never used. New SM wants to teach "self-relience". He wants every Scout to equip and supply everything himself for each camping trip. He is an Eagle Scout and feels this is missing from the BSA program and is adding it. 3. How many boys are in your troop? 25 to 30 (less than 20 active) 4. What has your troop meeting program been the last few months? Troop has monthly themes, but thy don't mean much. For example, June Theme is Rock Climbing. Went on a overnight to Indoor Rock Climbing in December, which had a theme of cooking. Troop did nothing pertaining to cooking at Dec. meetings.

Beavah & OGE, I agree 100% with both of you. I couldn't agrre more with "And any adult who isn't willing to make that commitment really shouldn't be a scout leader" This has become an issue within my council as we move towards manditory training. There are mnay adults who took training 20+ years ago who do not want to attend training to update there knowledge. I think having some type of "certified" troop program would do nothing but improve the quality of units. I think that this could be done without forcing a "cookie cutter" approach and having all troops exactly the same. Perhaps this is something that could be done by the Commissioner Service. I like what the Grand Canyon Council has done and has put in place Honor and Merit Unit Awards above and beyond the quality unit award. http://www.grandcanyonbsa.org/ It just seems that I keep meeting adults who are "trained" but can't/won't take the time to learn and understand how the BSA program works and tend to do whatever they think is the way it should be done or just change things to suit themselves.

I looked back thru the postings but couldn't find my question answered. Does the back of the applicants portion of the blue card need to be filled out? This is the part that lists each of the requirements and has the councilors initials and date. Over the weekend my son attended a Merit Badge Day. At this you could only sign up for one MB. He did all the prerequisites and finished a MB at this. When he went to turn in the MB blue card at Troop meeting last night, the SM and Advancement Chair of the Troop wouldnt accept the blue card because the councilor hadnt filled out the back for each MB requirement and initialed that my son had done each one. The SM also wouldnt sign the applicants portion of this. The SM told my son to go back to the councilor and have him fill out the card. The card was signed by the councilor. This councilor lives on the other side of the county from us but luckily, he has to come over to the council office today, which we live nearby, but it does require my wife to make a special trip so my son can meet him to have him fill out the card so he can receive the MB.

ASM59 said: We can set requirements regarding a particular POR. If the Scout is not performing his job, he can be removed from his POR. If however, the Scout is not removed from his POR and he holds the position for the required time, he is considered to have fulfilled the requirement. I'm curious, is this in a BSA publication? which one?

John-in-KC: I remember when first starting in Cubs some of the "older guys" in the Pack receiving the Lion Rank. However, it was gone by the time I became one of the older guys and was replaced by the WEBELOS program.

EagleInKY- I did look at the thread from 2005. Very little information and was mostly about how everyone thought it was a bad idea. I was looking to see if any one out there had more about this program as the newsltter sai that it was being used in other councils. I have contacted someone in my council to find out more about this program (I haven't had much luck searching on-line about this "new" program either)(This message has been edited by CNYScouter)

I just saw our council's bi-month newsletter and see that our council will be having a Lion Scout Program for Kindergartners next year. As I am not involved with the Cub side of things anymore this was the first I heard of this. Here the only info I saw about the program in the newsletter: The cost of the program will be $15.00 per Scout. For their $15 dollars they will receive a Lion T-Shirt, a graduation patch and all transfer fees when the go into Tigers. We will be the 3rd Council to try this program and the other Councils are averaging 500 Lion Scouts. Has anyone else heard about this program? I will be trying to find out more about this program as my youngest will starting school and its something I will be looking into.(This message has been edited by CNYScouter)