cchoat

Moose wrote: "Who said anything about force?.. All they voiced was opinion. Perhaps more people may take note of their opinions over that of you or me. But, all it is is an opinion.."

I disagree. When the President of the United States gets up before the cameras and makes a statement that the BSA is wrong in it's membership restrictions, people hear an official statement from a goverment official. Otherwise, why is this a story? Why is it newsworthy?

Moose went on to write: "Did you hear anything about either of them taking action against BSA to force them to close their doors if they did not change their ways? In fact Obama said it is a fine institution, but..."

Yes I did, and so did you. You said so yourself "... more people may take note of their opinions over that of you or me." Why is that Moose? Does his office give him a greater moral position over you and I? Does President Obama have a more enlightened view than you or I?

Why is that important? Because he is the President and can use his office as a bully pulpit to push popular opinion against the BSA policy, and force a change to the "wrongness" within a "...fine institution, but..." to that which suits his superior way of thinking.

We are in the organization. Why is his opinion greater than ours? Why is he right and I wrong?

All I am saying is that he should not use the BSA as his political whipping boy. If he does not agree with our policies, he should step down as Honorary President of the BSA. Acccepting a position of honor, then using it to further your creds with a group of campaign contributors is un-Scoutlike.

And neither should Mitt Romney. This is what irks me, using the BSA.

Moose,

President Obama has every right to say what he wants about the Boy Scouts. But why does he not respect the organization's right as a private group to make it's own membership requirements.

Why does he wade into the issue? Why does Mitt Romney? Why should they have the right to force a private group to open it's membership? What happened to the constitutional right of free association? If it's ok to force the BSA, then who's next?

And will he be stepping down as Honorary President of the Boy Scouts of America as a sign of protest? Will he return his membership card? He's already shown his "love" for the BSA when he taped, as opposed to actually giving his speech for the Jamboree.

This is just pandering to his major donors, the Hollywood left. the only thing he needs Scouting for is to play up his pro-gay ties.

Tampa Turtle,

This should bring you a happy memory:

It only had about 25 or so episodes and if I remember, the cavemen somehow came to the present (the then 60's). It was cool in it's time.

skeptic,

There's a hold up in the Bronx,

Brooklyn's broken out in fights.

There's a traffic jam in Harlem

That's backed up to Jackson Heights.

There's a scout troup short a child,

Kruschev's due at Idlewild

Car 54, Where Are You?

Thankfully Netflix let's me relive my childhood with several of our favorite 60's TV series'. I am a big fan of Adam 12 and Emergency. And Brodwick in Highway patrol still is great.

Are we showing our age?

For OldGrayEagle, The F-Troop theme...

The end of the Civil War was near

When quite accidentally,

A hero who sneezed abruptly seized

Retreat and reversed it to victory.

His medal of honor pleased and thrilled

his proud little family group.

While pinning it on some blood was spilled

And so it was planned he'd command F Troop.

Where Indian fights are colorful sights

and nobody takes a lickin'

Where pale face and redskin

Both turn chicken.

When killing and fighting get them down,

They know their morale can't droop.

As long as they all relax in town

Before they resume with a bang and a boom

F Troop.

As for old radio shows, I was too young (I'm only 50) to hear them first hand, but listen to alot of the old SciFi shows on Live365. My favorite, X-Minus One!

Looks to me like this Scout in the cartoon was following the old 1970's Sc****** program. You remember, when National took "outing" out of "Scouting".

However, an inner city kid not camping in the woods in the 70's might have used an encylopia and a copy machine to pass.

"Their 14th birthday so they can join Sea Scouts and then work for Quartermaster?"

Which if they run through quickly enough, should leave them time to earn Bronze, Gold and Silver venture awards. Hummmm... maybe there is something to this one year 1st Class thing... NOT.

As to sending them out on boxcars...Though National is is short of brain, I would not wish them on a train. I do not like skill awards old bean, I hope that doesn't make me mean.

It reminds me of the small videos we use in the Scoutmaster Leader Specific Training. You know, the one's with the "Model" troop. Everything is always perfect (uniforms, timing, boy leaders, behavior, ect.) It was always gets a laugh from the leaders attending to see how national assumes troops operate.

But again, I digress...

A little real world experance for the folks who make these calls is in order. We've been moving away from BP for years...

Ah the skill awards. A product of the early 70's. Remember the other great changes Sc***ing went through during that time frame? That's when the BSA took the "OUT" from scouting and citified the program.

But I digress. The race to First Class is because a National study found that those boys who failed to make First Class in their first year of Scouting dropped out at higher rates than those who did. There will always be boys that progress at different rates, and by rushing these boys to first class, they'll have, what, six years left to make eagle? (Assuming they start at age 11, some come to the troops at 10 1/2). The time in grade requirements for star and life are six months each, so if you have a fast mover, you could wind up with 13 year old Eagle Scouts.

Then what do they work for?

Patches are cheap.

Good deeds are rare.

They do make a "Good Turn" patch and coin. (Or at least they used to.)

So reward that good deed in a public setting, and other good deeds wil follow.

Hello Second Class and thanks for the warm welcome. I've been a member for a while (2008) but don't post much.

It's not an official, sit down, but I'm always communicating with the Scouts in the troop, so I catch alot of these issues when it comes to advancement early, and do alot of nudging in the right direction. Seems the boys take advice better when they think it was their idea in the first place. Although I do more work now on the District level (Boy Scout Roundtable Commissioner), I am active as an SA in my son's troop. We are blessed with a really outstanding Scoutmaster, who's been looking to retire for many years now,(That's his story, but although his son aged out years ago, he really enjoys his position and in addition to being really good at it, he's well respected among his peers, the parents and the Scouts.) so my role in the troop gives me time to work with the Scouts who are lagging behind their peers.

SM appproval? Heck yes!

Now the why. There is suppose to be more to being an OA member than just being a 1st class scout, with 15 days of camping in the last two years. If that was all that was needed, then why hold an election in the first place. Just tell all 1st class scouts when the Ordeal is being held and let them show up (or not).

There is a difference from the Scoutmasters signing off in the handbook that a scout has shown "Scout Spirit". Most leaders I have spoken to over the years compare the scout to his fellow scouts when making this determination. If they are at average, they are passed.

The OA is suppose to be an honor. So now the Scoutmaster must ask himself, "Is this Scout's Spirit above the rest? Will he forfill the extra commitment that being an OA member entails, or will he squander that honor, becoming a sash and dash?"

This is a good time for the Scoutmaster to sit the Scout down and talk to him, feel him out about his true feelings toward the OA. It lets down those that elected him if he takes the honor lightly.

Troops only get one election a year, and it's a loss for a Scout to be elected by his troop only to not want to go to the Ordeal. It reflects back on a troop who's "OA members" are not seen outside of the ice cream social at summer camp.

So yes, the standard for OA membership is different from that used for advancement. Yes a higher standard is needed.(This message has been edited by cchoat)

BeAScout is just another tool in the Leaders recruitment toolbox. If you don't take care of it (update the info) then it'll just rust.

Hey, National is trying. You sometimes have to meet them part ways.

Camp A.P. Hill has also hosted the Boy Scouts of America National Jamboree in 1981, 1985, 1989, 1993, 1997, 2001, 2005, and 2010. The number of participants each time included approximately 35,000 Boy Scouts and some 250,000 visitors. After the very costly 1973 and 1977 National Jamborees, the Boy Scouts wanted to find a 'permanent' location for the Jamborees, to lower the costs associated with establishing a temporary city every four years. They worked with the Military to find a base so that infrastructure like roads, plumbing and electricity would not have to be installed every four years. They paid to have some permanent utilities installed on-post for use every four years.

What most folks do not understand is that the Army welcomed the BSA to use the facility because:

1. The BSA paid for the improvements that were necessary to put on the activity. And when the Jamboree was over, those improvements remained to be used by military units conducting their normal military training. For the 2010 Jambo, the BSA contributed (donated) over 7.5 million dollars in improvements to AP Hill. Some of these improvements are now enjoyed by active duty, reserve and NG families as part of the post's MWR activities.

2. We provided the army an opportunity to conduct realistic training. That's right, the units involved in setting up, running and tearing down the site were able to practice their real life military mission of providing combat service support. Be it a field hospital, field kitchen, water purification unit, field sanitation unit, etc, were able to train as they would had they deployed, only now they supported real people, in real time. The cost of the military personnel,and their logistics was the only "cost" borne by the taxpayer. But what is not mentioned is that the cost of this training would still have occured, because it would have been conducted anyway. the difference being that it would not have been as realistic without the real life mission the Jambo provided.

3. It was a recruiting bonanza for the Armed services. All those high quality future potential officers and enlisted recruits in one place, allowed the military to showcase itself.

With the loss of the BSA's involvement with AP Hill, it is the taxpayer that will lose out. The "PC" folks may have "won" the battle, but again their short sightedness has lost them the war. The BSA now has a new site that it not only owns, but can improve into the future with. No taxpayer monies required.

It's not that they will not allow it, it's that these non-registered groups would not fall under the BSA insurance should something happen.

I keep a digital copy of "Follow Me Boys" on my iPod. It is a must when I teach the Citizenship in the Community Merit Badge at Wintercamp.

Requirement 5.

With the approval of your counselor and a parent, watch a movie that shows how the actions of one individual or group of individuals can have a positive effect on a community. Discuss with your counselor what you learned from the movie about what it means to be a valuable and concerned member of the community.

Seen it so many times that I can turn off the volume and speak the parts.

BSA24, you hit the nail with the hammer. A happy, well motivated leadership will do better than one that is not.

A small patch is not a reason to kill a good thing. And as long as it's a good example of how a group of boys (ok, you know I mean adults, but heck, Scouting keeps me mentally young) can come together and have a good time, leave the nit picking to the school nurse.

Besides, as I said earlier, you don't have to wear the patch on a sleeve, put it on a leather thong and wear it from the right pocket button in place of a temporary patch. There, uniform regulation issue solved.

And remember:

A Comittee Member has a vote in what direction the troop will take on all issues.

An Assistant Scoutmanster does not.

(A quick takeaway from the Leader Specific Training Course- Scoutmaster)

Congratulations! You have a motivated volunteer. No one had to ask him, he came in an filled out the paperwork to be an Assistant Scoutmaster. So now what do you do?

Think of the application as just that, a job application. When one applies for a job, he or she will fill out an application, listing among other things his or her qualifications to fill the open oor advertized position. So what happens next?

They are interviewed! That's right, filling out an application doesn't mean they start work, it means that they are willing to work. It is therefore up to the personnel manager (or in Scouting, the Committee and COR, with input from the Scoutmaster) to review the application, interview the candidate, and decide whether or not to hire them.

So don't panic. No one can be a walk in the door and be a Scout leader. There is a process.

I don't think that there is anything in the BSA regulations and bylaws, however, sitting in a scout uniform at a bar is not a good thing.

This is the closest thing I could find that might even come close...

Insignia, Uniforms, and Badges

ARTICLE X, SECTION 4.

Use of Uniforms

Clause 6. The official uniforms are intended primarily for use in connection with Scouting activities as defined by the national Executive Board, and their use may be approved by the local council executive board for council events or activities under conditions consistent with the Rules and Regulations of the Boy Scouts of America.

While we're all not tea-tottlers (and I would be sipping on a burbon and coke myself) theres a better way. I'd wear a t-shirt under the official scout shirt, so that I could take off the "uniform" and relax. But that's only my opinion.

Tampa Turtle,

While our "Adult Patrol" does not compete with our boys, I bet B.P. had a great time getting into it with his boys.

If it works in your troop, then keep at it!

As a retired military member who was active in scouting throughout my career, I have had the honor of being a member of several lodges both within the US, and in Europe. (Not to mention the lodge of my youth, Sha-Shu-Gah, in Brooklyn, NY) Each one had it's own really cool patches, and it was really hard to take off one lodge flap to replace it with a new one when I would PCS to a new location.

The only National rule that applies to this thread is that if you want to wear an OA Lodge Flap, then you must register with, and wear the lodge flap of the council you are currently registered in.

Local lodges have there own additions to this rule. Some have special OA flaps for each degree of the OA (Ordeal, Brotherhood and Vigil) each with own design or special border even though these are suppose to be no no's per national. All have special patches for special events. My personal opinion on these agrees with many on this forum, you wear special patches during the events, and either the flap you were initally given when you joined (or advanced)or the latest flap the lodge issued, members choice.

As to wearing flaps issued before you joined, this is just wrong. (Again, my personal opinion)

I for one would love to wear my cool old "Black Eagle Lodge" flap from my days with the Trans-Atlantic Council in Germany, but I wear with pride the flap from Quelqueshoe Lodge 166, with a yellow border signifying Brotherhod membership.

Why not. You earned it, and once an OA member, always an OA member.

I wore it when my sons were in Cub Scouts and was on the Pack Committee. Every summer camp, the local OA Lodge would preform for the boys, and my sons would point out to their friends that their Dad was in the OA.

Keep up with the annual dues, attend a service project or two and thanks for being a Cub Leader!

Tokala, while adults may not "need" a patrol, many troops have established unofficial "patrols" among their adult leaders. Scouting is for the boys, but sometimes one has to realize that many of the adults who make the program work are imaginatve, fun loving individuals. The "Gray Eagle Patrol" (Gray from the color of our hair) in our troop allows us to channel this enthusiasm.

Sure, we're not a "real official patrol", (which is why we wear our "Patrol emblem on the right pocket rather than the sleeve) but we provide a great example in camp of how the patrol method should work, as well as a top notch program for our scouts, all the while having a good time doing it. It enhances our troops ablity to recruit, keep and motivate adult leaders by giving them additional activities and a stronger sense of belonging, as well as provides a scouts perspective to the new parent\leader who may have not had the opportuntity to be a scout in their youth. They get to experance what their son is.

Woodbadge forms it's students into patrols. Is that wrong if patrols are only for boys? I feel if an "Adult Patrol" does not distract from the mission, then more power to it.

While I agree that a Patrol Patch should not be worn on the right sleeve of an adult uniform, there is nothing that says it can't be, say, worn on the right pocket. I would of course, attach it to a leather backing, appropriately shaped so that it could be hung from the right pocket button.

Our troop formed the Gray Eagle Patrol. Made up of active adult leaders, we have a neckerchief and "patrol flag". The Gray of course, is taken from the color of our hair, the Eagle is the goal we hope to inspire all our scouts to reach. our troop neckerchiefs are green with a narrow gold border. When the scouts reach 1st Class, they are presented with neckerchief that has a broad gold border. Our adult patrol does a similar thing but in gray, new leaders wear the thin boarder and when they complete the Position required training get issued the broad border. Of course, it goes without saying you'll need a uniform to wear it with.