cchoat

A quick Google search of "Raingutter Regatta Rules" brings up the experiences of several different Packs and Districts. Check with your District/Council to see if they have a set of rules they use when they conduct District/Council Raingutter Regattas, if they do, you want your winners to be in compliance so they can compete at that level. Otherwise read through the different units and put together a set of rules that meets the needs of your Pack.

Whatever you decide, be sure to put the rules out first to the Pack Committee for their buy in. It will help when you post it out to the parents and Cubs.

I agree with BLW2. While there is no BSA national policy outright banning them, many of the camps I have attended have there own rules in place. Also, many communities have laws in place limiting the length of blades.

I would check with your local council to see what they have to say on the matter. If they say yes, make sure the Scouts are trained and know that its not a toy.

My two cents...

The new boy patrol is something that my troop discussed, but never implemented. I can understand National thinking that Scouts that earn First Class in their first year tend to stay longer, but I think that we're just rushing them along. Do the boys really get anything out of being forced to earn First class in the first year.

I start every new year talking to my parents and explaining the program, and how it differs from Cub Scouts and why that is. My go to line every year is "I would rather your son stay active in the troop for seven years (11 thru 18) and at our last Scoutmasters conference say he enjoyed his time with us than be pushed earn his Eagle at 14 and drop out because he hated the program. While your son may not have made eagle, he would have experienced leadership opportunities, made lifelong friends, developed positive traits, and learned skills that will serve him for the rest of his life

I feel the key then is not rushing scouts to first Class, but offering a good program. Scouts will advance at their own speeds.

Promoting the “out†in Scouting.

Council Camps and Merit Badges. Have we forgot we’re outdoors?

Clive S. Choat

District Commissioner, Thunderbird District, Calcasieu Area Council

This thesis will look at the merit badge process, how it is being applied at council camps, and what we can do to both enhance the merit badge process, and the outdoor camp experience. Some of the things that I am proposing is the elimination of "teaching" merit badges that can be worked in a classroom setting (such as the three citizenship merit badges, family life, emergency preparedness...) and concentrate more on those things that a camp environment can offer (swimming, camping, sailing, rowing, canoeing, wilderness survival, pioneering...). I will also suggest ways that local councils through their districts can recruit and train merit badge councilors, thus delivering the promise of the Scouting program.

This thesis does not intend to bash these council run camps, because we are aware that they are trying to provide the best program they can, given their limited budgets and resources. It is our hope that it will cast a light on several glaring issues, and point the way to possible solutions.

Defining the Issue

Summer camp—Summer camp is what many Scouts enjoy most. Camp programs provide numerous opportunities for Scouts to earn merit badges along their advancement trail. Resident camp includes at least five nights and six days of fun outdoor activities.

― The Boy Scout Outdoor Program, BSA Website

It’s well known that the outdoor adventure is the promise made to boys when they join Scouting. As leaders, it is our responsibility to ensure that our Scouts get the type of program that that stirs their imagination and interests. It is in the outdoor environment that our scouts have the opportunity to obtain skills that will allow them to become more self-reliant. It is here they can explore activities such as hiking, canoeing, sailing, pioneering as well as complete challenges they may have thought to be beyond their ability. But is this the program we are giving them?

As a Commissioner, have you ever had a Scout leader come up to you and question the validity of a scout’s merit badge progress report from a summer or winter camp? Or a parent complaining that their Scout didn’t get all the badges he signed up for? It’s become normal for Scouts (and their parents) to measure success by how many merit badges they (or their son) earn, and are vocal if the scout comes back with partial completions or no badges at all. Given the cost of the camp, parents expect something tangible in return, else they feel that they have not got their monies worth. Some camps therefore, have over the years cultivated a reputation (whether deserved or not) of being “easyâ€, with requirements and completions.

Thus the ability to earn merit badges have become one of the primary reason why many Scout leaders choose one camp over another. A quick look at how the average council run summer/winter camp advertises itself based on how many different merit badges it offers, but not on the quality of its instruction or staff, or other programs that allow the scout to experience the outdoors. To meet these promises, many of these camps rely primarily on either youth staff members under the age of eighteen, or those adult unit leaders, attending camp with their troops and hastily recruited to teach a merit badge that they not only were not expecting to do or prepared for, but quite often not even familiar with the merit badge requirements or field. So although the promised “number of badges offered†is high, the quality of instruction is highly questionable.

During my research on this topic, I asked for comments on the Scouter IPS Community, a forum set up for Scout leaders to discuss various topics relating to Scouting. One comment struck me hard. “I am not paying $500 for my son to have a personal vacation. Right or wrong, I expect some kind of return on my investment. I would assume that many parents feel the same way and have not been told how merit badges work so that leads to disappointment and frustration.†(The $500 dollar price tag included transportation costs) So is the message we are sending about what the purpose of camp is wrong?

The Merit Badge Program

As Commissioners, let’s ask ourselves these questions. Do merit badges exist simply for the purpose of providing scouts the opportunity to learn skills? Is correctly utilizing the merit badge program important to a scout’s advancement? Can a large group of scouts really earn Eagle required merit badges in a classroom environment in three or four 50 minute sessions? Do Scouts benefit if they simply show up, do nothing and are awarded the badge? What merit badges should and should not be offered at council run summer and winter camps?

Before we explore each of these questions, let’s remember that as Commissioners, we are the guardians of the Scouting program. As such, one of our responsibilities is that we are charged to see that the program is being delivered as directed by the guidelines and policies set forth by the national headquarters. One of the keys to this program is Guide to Advancement which defines the merit badge program.

“Earning merit badges should be Scout initiated, Scout researched, and Scout learned. It should be hands-on and interactive, and should not be modeled after a typical school classroom setting. Instead, it is meant to be an active program so enticing to young men that they will want to take responsibility for their own full participation.â€

― 7.0.3.0. The Process of Counseling

The merit badge process was designed to give scouts the opportunity to get out into the community and meet with adults who in turn could mentor them on topics of interest to the boy. It is designed to give the Scout the confidence achieved through overcoming obstacles, improve their social skills and develop self-reliance and allows the scout to explore fields of study and interest outside of the school classroom. The process starts with the scout showing an interest in a merit badge subject and discussing this with his Scoutmaster or designated assistant. The Scout is connected to a counselor, who has registered with the BSA and has demonstrated knowledges and experience in the field the badge covers. The merit badge counselor acts as a coach, assisting the Scout in completing the requirements to earn the badge. While merit badge counselors are permitted to guide and instruct a Scout on the subject matter, the Scout must do the work himself.

When one counselor works directly with one Scout and his buddy, or with a very small group, personal coaching and guidance can be achieved. This why the recommended best practice as stated in the national guidelines is the small-scale approach for merit badge instruction and requirement fulfillment. Large group instruction, while perhaps efficient, doesn’t provide the desired results when it comes to both learning and positive adult association that the merit badge program intends. This is why it is important that districts and councils should focus on providing trained, qualified merit badge counselors for as many subjects as possible, and made available to the Scouts.

Sadly, many scouts, instead of getting blue cards from their scoutmasters and seeking out merit badge councilors, are earning all or the bulk of their badges in a council sponsored camp environment. In doing so, we have allowed the merit badge process, and in turn, the advancement process to be watered down, and have turned our summer and winter camps into factories, with the main goal to have the boys earn as many merit badges as possible. This has led to a detrition of the merit badge program as quantity of badges offered takes priority over quality of instruction, and detracts from the outdoor experience.

“In Boy Scouting, advancement requirements must be passed as written. If, for example, a requirement uses words like "show," "demonstrate," or "discuss," then that is what Scouts must do. Filling out a worksheet, for example, would not suffice. “

― 4.2.0.1 Scouting Ranks and Advancement Age Requirements

Camp Directors will point out that 7.0.3.2 in the Guide to Advancement allows group Instruction. And while it may be true that BSA deems it to be acceptable, and that under certain circumstances even appropriate that merit badges be taught in group settings, every Scout in attendance must “actually and personally†have completed the requirements, as spelled out by the merit badge. If the requirement states that the Scout must “show,†“demonstrate,†or “discuss,†then every Scout must do that. The Guide goes even further, clearly stating that “It is unacceptable to award badges on the basis of sitting in classrooms watching demonstrations, or remaining silent during discussions.†(The Merit Badge Program, BSA National Website, 2017) And yet we find in many council camps, groups of 20 or more Scouts are taking Eagle required merit badges such as Citizenship in the Community, Nation or World.

The expectation that badges such as these can be completed and earned in a group that large over a short period of time (3 to 4 fifty minute classes) is stretching the bounds of possibility, considering the fact that if conducted to standard, of the eight requirements, each scout would have to “discuss†four requirements, “explain†one, “show†one and “tell†two. Yet somehow, scouts are returning home with completed Citizenship in the Nation merit badges. Adjustments, compromises and exceptions have had to have been made to allow every Scout to “complete†the requirements to earn the badge. Add to this mix, one counselor (who may or may not be underage, or inexperienced in the subject) can be found running several classes each day, and there is no way to know if a Scout actually actively participated, or just showed up.

National guidelines clearly spell out that “The same qualifications and rules for merit badge counselors apply to council summer camp merit badge programs. All merit badge counselors must be at least 18 years of age. Camp staff members under age 18 may assist with instruction but cannot serve in the role of the merit badge counselor.†(The Merit Badge Program, BSA National Website). This means that those staffers serving as merit badge counselors must be registered in Scouting, and both knowledgeable and qualified in the subject that they are hired to instruct to sign off on merit badges. It puts the onus on the Camp Director to certify that these standards are met, and that all badges were earned in compliance with the Guide to Advancement.

However, the Camp Director is limited by many factors, the most pressing of these is money. In order to keep costs within the limited budget set forth by the council, the Director is limited to just how many staffers he or she can hire, and how much they can offer to pay them. Coupled with a need to offer as many merit badges as possible, this means that hiring an all adult staff, qualified in the various badges offered is an unobtainable goal. Instead, the pot is spread by hiring youth members, and assigning them as merit badge councilors for several different badges. In addition, pleas are made for the adult leaders attending camp with their units to assist by teaching merit badge classes that the director could not fill.

Restoring the Merit Badge Process in a Council

So how do we fix these issues? I suggest a two pronged approach to this issue. First, restore the credibility of the merit badge program by requiring that Scouts complete the requirements as written, and second review the merit badges that a camp should be offering, tailoring them to accentuate the facilities the camp can offer, and in turn, returning them to providing a great outdoor experience.

To restore the credibility of the merit badge program, we must first look to recruit qualified merit badge councilors. While this may be the responsibility of the District or council advancement committees, (who are, by their nature, charged with the recruiting and training sufficient counselors in order to meet their unit’s needs) we as Commissioners must always be on the lookout for individuals that can serve.

An already present resource in the councils are their registered adult leaders. Scoutmasters and assistant scoutmasters should be encouraged to sign up as merit badge counselors, taking on one to three badges of subjects that they are both qualified and comfortable. Unit Commissioners should work with the Scoutmasters to identify other unit level leaders and parents, who might also be interested to serve. From both of these sources, a master list should then be compiled for Scoutmasters to refer to when a Scout is ready to pursue a merit badge.

District and Council Commissioners can network with those who belong to the same civic groups as they do, such as the American Legion, the Lion’s Club, Shriners, PTA, etc. By doing so, we can gather names of people who may be qualified to serve, and pass them along to the advancement committee for follow-up. In addition, we can help ensure that these individuals are fully supported by conducting both Youth Protection and the Merit Badge Counselor training.

Suggestions for Improving the Camp Experience

Camp. The word as defined by Webster’s is “a place usually in the country for recreation or instruction often during the summer, a program offering access to recreational or educational facilities for a limited period of time, such as a resort offering boating and hiking campsâ€. For the purpose of this paper, I will be breaking out the three types of camps currently run by the BSA, these being High Adventure, Traditional and Combination, but will concentrate on the Traditional.

At the pinnacle of Scouting’s camps lies the High Adventure Camp. (HAC) These camps offer specialized, unique scouting opportunities such as back country backpacking expeditions, sailing and scuba diving, wilderness canoe excursions, Philmont Scout Reservation, Florida National High Adventure Sea Base, Northern Tier and the Summit Scout Reserve are the best known of these, with Swamp Base in Louisiana and Sea Scout Base-Galveston two local examples.

A combination camp offers scout units the choice of either the traditional camp experience, or a specialized program. One such example of this would be the Sid Richardson Reservation, run by the Longhorn Council in Texas. This camp offers the troops Scouts to either participate in a traditional summer camp experience (earning merit badges) or in a series of high adventure activities that do not lead to merit badges, where the Scouts immerse themselves in various historical periods where the can experience life as a Texas Ranger, Civil War soldier, UFO hunter, and other fun activities.

This brings us to the Traditional Camp experience. When one thinks about the traditional view of a Boy Scout summer camp, the mind congers an image of a woody place with hiking, canoeing, and campfires. But today, many of our council camps have changed this view with a greater emphasis on offering as many merit badges as possible. This is largely to counter a trend in decreasing enrollment in summer camps, due to competition from other council camps as well as non-scouting venues.

But you say, “Don’t the Scouts want to earn merit badges?†Yes, in a sense they do, and because of this, the camp has become almost an extension of school. Instead of taking time to just relax and enjoy nature, our scouts are regimented into a schedule of six to eight periods of instruction of fifty minutes each with 10 minutes to move from class to class. Many of the badges offered are neither nature or outdoors related at all, and are all but impossible to complete in the allotted time, and the subjects being taught could have just as easily been done at the Scouts normal meeting places or in his community. While some camps take time off from this schedule to offer inter-camp activities, these are usually poorly attended by the units, as the boys tend to use this “free time†to do the things that they really want to do.

So what is a cash strapped Camp Director to do? First, take stock of what your camp has to really offer a Scout, in order to get the most out of his outdoor experience. The Scout is your customer. Your job is to give the customer good service and value for his money. A summer camp environment should allow the Scout to learn new outdoor skills in a safe and nurturing environment. What merit badges can you offer that a Scout that fits your camp environment? With the facilities you have? What special activities can you offer that will set your camp apart and make scouts want to return year after year? Is it more important to offer fewer Scouts a great experience, or cram in as many Scouts as possible, with multiple meal times and packed classes to maximize profit? If you can offer fun, you will get return business.

If you’re going to offer merit badges, limit them to those badges with connections to the outdoors. Remember this rule, if they can earn it at home, then why are they coming to your camp? Take the time to ensure that your councilors are trained in the subjects that they will be instructing. If the trainer doesn’t know what he or she is teaching, the Scout’s will quickly see through the bluster and take advantage of the trainer’s weakness. Nothing is more frustrating than feeling as if you’re wasting your time. Keep the class size small. This is especially true for those classes being led by youth staffers, who should already have experience managing a patrol size element, but will be overwhelmed with a large group. If a class proves to be popular, offer multiple classes at the same time with separate instructors, instead of adding more Scouts to the class. The key is that Scouts learn better in small groups.

Schedule classes in the morning, and offer open sessions in the afternoon, where scouts can practice the skills they learned. It is one thing to have a formal class in rowing, let them check out a boat and row on their own. Encourage patrols to organize a hike, work on a gateway for their campsite. Instead of a dinner hall prepared dinner, set up an open charcoal pit and allow the Scouts to make their own tin foil dinner one night, or issue them a grub box and have them prepare their meal in their campsite.

Offer activities for the adult leaders. Don’t look at them as extra staffers to plug your staffing holes, but as customers as well. This is where your Camp Commissioner (CC) comes in. He or she is the go to person that these leaders will approach if any issues come up, freeing up the Camp director to take care of other activities. The CC should be responsible to provide activities to keep these individuals occupied, such as training opportunities and fun activities throughout the day. One of the best ways is for the CC to have a Scoutmaster Merit Badge program, where the unit leaders participate in various activities such as judges for contests, helpers at the ranges, cooking skills demonstrations, training participation, etc.

Or, why offer merit badges at all? Let’s take this opportunity to reinforce the patrol method. As the PLC normally decides where a troop is going to camp, let’s work on the assumption that the troop will all attend the same camp. Once there, each patrol within the troop would pick and choose from the activities offered to build their own program. Now, a New Boy Patrol can concentrate on Scout thru First Class outdoor requirements, while the venturing patrol spends its week on all water related activities.

These various Patrol activities can be offered though out the camp week. Instead of teaching the Cooking MB class, the staff can offer to do patrol sessions on various types of cooking, (Dutch oven, backpacking, propane stove) at their campsite, allowing the Scouts to prepare their own dinner meals. The waterfront area can offer Kayaking, Rowing and Canoeing, with patrols first signing up for an instructional period, then being allowed to practice what they have learned during open boating periods.

The Patrol can sign up for a pioneering class. The Scouts will arrive at the Pioneering site, and with the tools and materials at hand, receive instruction on a building a tower, camp chair or monkey bridge. Instead of a structured Nature class, a staffer can take the patrol on an observation hike, pointing out the various flora and wildlife found in the camp along the way. The idea should be that Scouts are enjoying the outdoors, not sitting in classes, completing those parts of a merit badge that cannot be done in a non-outdoor environment as they go along. Once back at home, the Patrol can work together to complete the badge.

This will require that the camp Director, and his or her Program Director will have to work to ensure that their staff is able to deliver this type of program. It will also require a fundamental shift in the idea that a successful camp is one where Scouts earn many merit badges.

References:

A Guide for Merit Badge Counseling, No. 512-065,

The Merit Badge Program, BSA National Website http://www.scouting.org/home/guidetoadvancement/themeritbadgeprogram.aspx#7011

I would think it would have to start at the council level since camps are not usually district specific (at least not to my knowledge - we have two dedicated camps in our council that get scouts from many districts, including from other states). I am sure a district can exert some influence on a camp but such might be more productive and successful if you coordinate with other districts or the council.

 

Although I am a District commissioner, we are a small council, so as DC I am expected to weigh in on council level events as part of the Council Commissioners team.

 

I think your focus on just those activities that are outdoors (ore more accurately, non-classroom) is a great start. Camping, Hiking, Backpacking, Swimming (and other water related MBs where appropriate) with the understanding that credit will be earned but that there either will be required pre-reqs or post camp work to be completed.

 

Thank you.  As we have a small council, our camp doesn't have a lot of bells and whistles that allow it to compete with some of the larger councils in the area. 

 

I still think you will be challenged by the fact that camps will still want to advertise just what a scout will accomplish as a means to recruit people from other districts, councils, and states. Our local camp was recently featured in the list of the top 20 best camps and I would bet if I were to go back and read their advertisement blurb, it probably listed the MBs one could complete while in attendance.

 

Congratulations on that achievement. 

 

On a bit of a tangent, what about the actual MB camps? Our council holds two different ones a year that are basically MB factories. We have a summer "First Class" camp designed to help the scout earn everything they need for First Class and we have a summer "Baden-Powell Merit Badge Camp" for Eagle required Merit Badges. Our district also holds a MB workshop every fall. Other local districts appear to offer the same at various times of the year.

 

Our camp offers a "Trail to First Class" program for first time campers that does the same thing.  We're also trying out other non-merit badge programs for the older scouts in life skills, such as choosing a college, or writing a resume. 

So he spends lots of time in activities with his patrol - some separate from the other patrols that make up the troop. Good.

 

You had only mentioned going with his "troop," so I misunderstood.  My apologies.

Thanks for catching that.  I will go back and try to add a clarifier. 

As the PLC normally decides where a troop is going to camp, I am working on the assumption that the troop will all attend the same camp.  Once there, each patrol would pick and chose from the activities offered to build their own program.   Now, if a troop breaks up it's summer activities, (NBP goes to a traditional camp, venturing patrol goes white water rafting) this still works, the key is that this is the smallest cohesive group in a troop.

If the scout attends camp as a lone scout, he can be formed into a patrol with other lone scouts, that can vote on the activities it wants to do. 

Guys please, let's keep this friendly.

Anyway, I can understand that spending $500 dollars with nothing to show in return is a hard sell.  But "earning" merit badges at a camp simply for showing up and attending the classes, or worse, being instructed by a youth in a merit badge that he may have little knowledge of (reading from the MB book) or having the Scout not want to go back because he can go to school for free isn't worth $500 dollars in my opinion either. 

I know that this may be tilting at windmills, but I would at least like to try and improve the camp experience for Scouts. I am using the Patrol as it is a good way to size a class, as most patrols are from 6 to 8 young men.

Building on an idea from thrifty, I would like to propose the following:

Why offer merit badges at all? Let’s take this opportunity to reinforce the patrol method. Patrols should be offered the opportunity to sign up for small group activities offering hands on experiences. Instead of teaching the Cooking MB class, the staff can offer to do patrol sessions on various types of cooking, (Dutch oven, backpacking, propane stove) at their campsite, allowing the Scouts to prepare their own dinner meals. The waterfront area can offer Kayaking, Rowing and Canoeing, with patrols first signing up for an instructional period, then being allowed to practice what they have learned during open boating periods.

Or the patrol can sign up for a pioneering class. The scouts will arrive at the Pioneering site, and with the tools and materials at hand, receive instruction on a building a tower, camp chair or monkey bridge. Instead of a structured Nature class, a staffer can take the patrol on an observation hike, pointing out the various flora and wildlife found in the camp along the way. Units with New Scout patrols can be assigned a staffer who will work with them to complete the outdoor requirements for Scout thru First Class ranks. On the last afternoon, offer inter patrol activities where the patrols can compete to demonstrate what they have learned during the week.

Thank you for your unique view on this issue.

 

As a former 14-year-old instructor (and again at 15, 16 and 17, before finally being a real MBC at 18), I'd like to represent the camp staff perspective. I agree the system is flawed. I was certainly not qualified to teach some of my badges that young (but for others, I was, and did a solid job if I do say so). There are two solutions, both of which will run up against local unit opposition.

 

1. Most camps can't afford to hire all 18+ staff as instructors. It's difficult enough in some cases to hire the required 18 and 21s for area director roles. The fix is to pay more money and recruit more heavily among that population, particularly college students. When you're competing against career-oriented internships or jobs that pay five times more, there is no contest. That will lead to higher camp costs.

 

I have seen camps that do just this.  One such camp in Oklahoma only recruits college students and limits the badges they instruct to their college major.  I can tell you that my Scouts covered the badges and then some.    The camp was a bit costlier, but they put on a much more solid program. 

2. Many camps don't limit the number of Scouts who can take a certain class, leading to 30+ Scouts in a Pioneering or Cooking session under one instructor. The solution is to limit session size to 5-8 - a standard patrol size, same as if the patrol had signed up for lessons from an expert outfitter or guide on a trek. This will lead to Scouts not able to get in to their desired badges.

 

This seems to be part of the cost cutting process.  Could you as a 14 or even 16 year old expect to teach a merit badge to a class this large to standard?  It comes from trying to do too much, with to little.

My personal favorite solution is to go the Cub Scout camp route and offer activities rather than formal classes. On Cub camp staff, we didn't sign off on anything, as that was Akela's job. We just ran fun stuff. Boy Scout camps could do the same thing. Instead of Cooking MB class, they do sessions on various types of cooking - Dutch oven, backpacking stove, freezer bag. Instead of Kayaking and Rowing and Canoeing, there's instructional boating and open boating periods. Instead of Environmental Science, there are structured observation hikes and guided experiments on certain subjects.

 

Exactly where I am going.  Summer camp should be a fun activity, the highlight of the Scouting year. yes, there will be a place to earn merit badges, but it shouldn't be the center point.

 

The bigger question is whether anyone would go for this approach. Would units and parents pay for a camp where their Scouts learned rather than earned?

 

That's the sixty-four million dollar question....

Thank you for your assistance. 

 

BSA knows cheating is going on - expressly directed by the "professional" staff and desired by many volunteer unit leaders, but BSA elects to allow it to continue.   

 

I have personally seen this, but it doesn't make it right.  I am trying to offer my council camp a way out of this web.

 

National Camping Standards require "All advancement must be consistent with BSA advancement policies.... Recognizing that an important part of the merit badge program is that the Scout meets with a qualified counselor, due care is taken to ensure that all merit badge requirements are met."

 

"BSA advancement policies," of course, require that only a registered Merit badge Counselor can act in that role and that all requirements must be individually passed and certified as individually passed by a registered Merit Badge Counselor (i.e., and adult registered as a Merit badge Counselor with a Local Council).  However, camps are routinely certified by "visitation" teams with no evidence whatsoever that this mandatory minimum standard can or will be followed.  I saw a fourteen-year-old "Merit Badge Counselor" last Summer at camp Week 1 (and Weeks 2,3 and 6). And he didn't know much.

 

I served one year as part of the "visitation" team you speak of, and can say that we were more interested in making sure the boxes where checked (Certified lifeguard, check.  Clean kitchen, check. Serviceable Latrines, check.) and that staff members other than those at the Shooting Sports or Aquatics didn't hit the radar. 

 

Absent a public scandal, there will be no reform.  Advancement chairs who try to fix things are plowed under as volunteers have little actual power in BSA Scouting.

We are left with encouraging unit leaders to not allow this scandal to include their unit.

 

As a District Commissioner, I understand the fact that the volunteers, who are the backbone of the program, are often the last to be consulted or listened to.  But if no one stands up, the problem will continue.  It's all in how it's presented to the professionals. 

Hawkwin makes a good point. There's another issue - cost. It's costly to staff shooting and aquatics activities. It's cheap to staff a mb where you can pay a 16 year old less than min wage to stand up and talk. My scouts used to sleep during mb classes to make up for playing hard. Anyway, this problem also needs to be looked at if your council will buy in.

Thank you for your response. 

One of the premises I am going to make is that camps do away with trying to teach merit badges that have nothing to do with the outdoors..  As you have noted,  staff shooting and aquatics activities are the positions where experience and certifications are important, but are two things that Scouts normally can not do outside of the camp experience.  Citizenship in the Community or Family Life are two such examples of badges that should not be taught in camp.  I am looking for other ways that a small council camp to make itself marketable, other than offering a large swath of merit badges.   

Since this paper is really being directed at my council camp, I know that I am going to be seen as the nail sticking up, but if I can give them workable solutions, then perhaps they will buy into me ideas. 

Thank you for your answers. 

 

Unfortunately, most do not actually earn the merit badges. Some requirements get signed off that could not possibly have been completed.

 

That is as you have stated, a sad fact. 

 

A more frequent issue is the "DO, Show, Demonstrate" parts of the MB are done, shown or demonstrated by the counselor in a group setting.

 

And how can a large group of Scouts actually Do, Show, and demonstrate in the limited timeframes set out by the camps?  I say they can't.

 

This past Summer at our camp, the MB classes were given by instructors (many of which are under 18 and cannot be counselors anyway). The instructors would sign off that requirements had been covered, but MB Counselors back at the unit (or Counselors from District or Council) would test the Scout and sign off if they felt the work was completed according to the requirements. It was a bit of delayed gratification for some scouts, but that is not a bad thing. It also ensured that the Scouts did and understood the requirement. In some cases a requirement may need to be redone if the counselor was not confident the scout understood/completed the work.

 

The guide to Scouting Advancement states that once a merit badge councilor has signed off on the badge, the boy has earned it. He is not to be retested.   Now there are ways to dispute whether or not the Scout has really earned it, and most scouts will fess up and admit it, but why should it be happening in the first place?  Why are we allowing this to happen?  

 

IT worked well for us. The Scouts didn't seem to mind, because they were interested in doing the work and having fun. As leaders we liked it because we felt confident that the scout earned the badge.

 

But you should not have to retest, recheck a Scout if the camp is doing things right the first time.  This is what I am trying to address.

As a current scout, I’ll share my present opinion as I experience this yearly.

 

I agree and disagree with your reasonings. Not all summer camps are “MB assemnlylinesâ€, some actually coach, teach, whatever you want to call it.

 

Thankfully there are some camps still out there with integrity.  I want to know, what makes them work while others fail.  How can other camp directors take those lessons back to their camp.

 

What I think you should emphasize on as well is the SIZE of classes, you only talk about that a little bit. Example, I was in a cooking class with at least 30 people (5+ picnic tables filled). We did not actually cook food, we boiled frozen chicken tenders. I think you should also include how the QUALITY of the classes can be ruined by the size and inexperienced instructor(s). I went to the bathroom once with a buddy during the class and they didn’t even notice I came back! I probably could’ve never came back and still got the requirements done for that day.

 

I have touched n that topic, and will further explain why smaller classes work best.  Right now I am throwing this out and taking in your comments and suggestions.  What is happening in my neck of the woods, may not be the same in yours, and it would be unfair to tar every camp with the same brush. 

Some quick feedback:

 

I like it so far and I generally agree with the premise that MB assembly lines at camp is a bad thing. 

 

Thank you for taking the time to help with this project thesis.

 

I have a general disagreement with the cause of the problem which upon my quick read through, appears to be missing. The "Why" the parents and scouts are shopping for camps in that way. The fact that camps cater to them is the SYMPTOM of the ailment, not the ailment itself. In other words, if you want to cure cancer, you have to find out what is causing the cancer. Giving a prescription to treat the symptoms doesn't cure it.

 

I am using this forum to gather other opinions and comments other than my own. This is why you may find some "missing' parts, as I am trying not to make this a "me" paper, but a "we" paper. 

 

 

My hypothesis is the that ailment - parents and scouts shopping for a camp based on the MBs they offer - is caused by having way to $#@$(* many merit badges. We have created a culture of achievement, from the first meeting of cub scouts, that is based on DOING IT ALL. By the time cubs crossover into BS, they and their parents have been hard-wired to want to get each and every merit badge, every patch, every little bit of everything that is available. It only then logically follows that the members (and their parents) desire to achieve the MBs in the easiest, cheapest (both time and money), and quickest manner possible.

 

An interesting point.  it kind of feeds into the Pokémon mentality of "Got to get 'em all"

 

You state that the MB process should only be completed as written but that is logistically impossible in some cases without some major re-writes of the requirements. Take Home Repairs for example. There are something like a dozen home repairs required that are to be completed under the supervision of the MBC. How is that going to work? I invite the MBC into my home and my son and him/her paints my walls or fixes the leak in my sink? Is that MBC going to invite the scout to his house (YP potential problems) to repair something? How many scouts can that MBC actually serve with such a requirement?

 

The point I am trying to make is that camps are having to bend the rules in order to pass the Scout.  This defeats the purpose of earning the badge.

 

I don't know about other councils but locally it can be quite a chore to find a qualified MBC to volunteer for some or the more labor intensive MBs. Asking your Advancement Committees to more actively recruit such individuals might be more work than they are willing to do, considering the 138 or so MBs that are out there.

 

What I will be recommending is cutting back on the number of merit badges offered, limit them to outdoor activities, and offer more "fun" things to do.

 

I think you might be asking too much of Camp Directors to change their business model absent a change in the market they are trying to serve. BSA has created this crazy demand (so much so that nearly every time someone earns every MB, it is celebrated in print) that is unlikely to change unless the emphasis on the requirements and achievement changes. Parents and scouts will continue to shop for a camp based on what they think is important. Asking camp to change the customer isn't likely to be successful.

 

This paper may not change the minds of the professionals, but it may tweak the business model (One can hope)

Sorry about that.  The attachment didn't take.  Here is the draft.

Promoting the “out†in Scouting.

Council Camps and Merit Badges.  Have we forgot we’re outdoors?

Clive S. Choat

District Commissioner, Thunderbird District, Calcasieu Area Council

            This thesis will look at the merit badge process, how it is being applied at council camps, and what we can do to both enhance the merit badge process, and the outdoor camp experience.  Some of the things that I am proposing is the elimination of "teaching" merit badges that can be worked in a classroom setting (such as the three citizenship merit badges, family life, emergency preparedness...) and concentrate more on those things that a camp environment can offer (swimming, camping, sailing, rowing, canoeing, wilderness survival, pioneering...).  I will also suggest ways that local councils through their districts can recruit and train merit badge councilors, thus delivering the promise of the Scouting program.

              This thesis does not intend to bash these council run camps, because we are aware that they are trying to provide the best program they can, given their limited budgets and resources.  It is our hope that it will cast a light on several glaring issues, and point the way to possible solutions.

Defining the Issue

Summer camp—Summer camp is what many Scouts enjoy most. Camp programs provide numerous opportunities for Scouts to earn merit badges along their advancement trail. Resident camp includes at least five nights and six days of fun outdoor activities.

                                  â€• The Boy Scout Outdoor Program, BSA Website

            It’s well known that the outdoor adventure is the promise made to boys when they join Scouting.   As leaders, it is our responsibility to ensure that our Scouts get the type of program that that stirs their imagination and interests.    It is in the outdoor environment that our scouts have the opportunity to obtain skills that will allow them to become more self-reliant. It is here they can explore activities such as hiking, canoeing, sailing, pioneering as well as complete challenges they may have thought to be beyond their ability.   But is this the program we are giving them?

          As a Commissioner, have you ever had a Scout leader come up to you and question the validity of a scout’s merit badge progress report from a summer or winter camp?  Or a parent complaining that their Scout didn’t get all the badges he signed up for?  It’s become normal for Scouts (and their parents) to measure success by how many merit badges they (or their son) earn, and are vocal if the scout comes back with partial completions or no badges at all.  Given the cost of the camp, parents expect something tangible in return, else they feel that they have not got their monies worth.  Some camps therefore, have over the years cultivated a reputation (whether deserved or not) of being “easyâ€, with requirements and completions. 

          Thus the ability to earn merit badges have become one of the primary reason why many Scout leaders choose one camp over another.  A quick look at how the average council run summer/winter camp advertises itself based on how many different merit badges it offers, but not on the quality of its instruction or staff, or other programs that allow the scout to experience the outdoors.   To meet these promises, many of these camps rely primarily on either youth staff members under the age of eighteen, or those adult unit leaders, attending camp with their troops and hastily recruited to teach a merit badge that they not only were not expecting to do or prepared for, but quite often not even familiar with the merit badge requirements or field.  So although the promised “number of badges offered†is high, the quality of instruction is highly questionable.   

The Merit Badge Program

          As Commissioners, let’s ask ourselves these questions.   Do merit badges exist simply for the purpose of providing scouts the opportunity to learn skills?  Is correctly utilizing the merit badge program important to a scout’s advancement?  Can a large group of scouts really earn Eagle required merit badges in a classroom environment in three or four 50 minute sessions?  Do Scouts benefit if they simply show up, do nothing and are awarded the badge?  What merit badges should and should not be offered at council run summer and winter camps?

           Before we explore each of these questions, let’s remember that as Commissioners, we are the guardians of the Scouting program.  As such, one of our responsibilities is that we are charged to see that the program is being delivered as directed by the guidelines and policies set forth by the national headquarters.  One of the keys to this program is Guide to Advancement which defines the merit badge program. 

“Earning merit badges should be Scout initiated, Scout researched, and Scout learned. It should be hands-on and interactive, and should not be modeled after a typical school classroom setting. Instead, it is meant to be an active program so enticing to young men that they will want to take responsibility for their own full participation.†    

                                                                                                          ― 7.0.3.0. The Process of Counseling

         The merit badge process was designed to give scouts the opportunity to get out into the community and meet with adults who in turn could mentor them on topics of interest to the boy.  It is designed to give the Scout the confidence achieved through overcoming obstacles, improve their social skills and develop self-reliance and allows the scout to explore fields of study and interest outside of the school classroom.  The process starts with the scout showing an interest in a merit badge subject and discussing this with his Scoutmaster or designated assistant. The Scout is connected to a counselor, who has registered with the BSA and has demonstrated knowledges and experience in the field the badge covers.  The merit badge counselor acts as a coach, assisting the Scout in completing the requirements to earn the badge.  While merit badge counselors are permitted to guide and instruct a Scout on the subject matter, the Scout must do the work himself.     

          When one counselor works directly with one Scout and his buddy, or with a very small group, personal coaching and guidance can be achieved.  This why the recommended best practice as stated in the national guidelines is the small-scale approach for merit badge instruction and requirement fulfillment. Large group instruction, while perhaps efficient, doesn’t provide the desired results when it comes to both learning and positive adult association that the merit badge program intends.  This is why it is important that districts and councils should focus on providing trained, qualified merit badge counselors for as many subjects as possible, and made available to the Scouts.

             Sadly, many scouts, instead of getting blue cards from their scoutmasters and seeking out merit badge councilors, are earning all or the bulk of their badges in a council sponsored camp environment.  In doing so, we have allowed the merit badge process, and in turn, the advancement process to be watered down, and have turned our summer and winter camps into factories, with the main goal to have the boys earn as many merit badges as possible.  This has led to a detrition of the merit badge program as quantity of badges offered takes priority over quality of instruction, and detracts from the outdoor experience. 

“In Boy Scouting, advancement requirements must be passed as written. If, for example, a requirement uses words like "show," "demonstrate," or "discuss," then that is what Scouts must do. Filling out a worksheet, for example, would not suffice. “

                                                           â€• 4.2.0.1 Scouting Ranks and Advancement Age Requirements

          Camp Directors will point out that 7.0.3.2 in the Guide to Advancement allows group Instruction.  And while it may be true that BSA deems it to be acceptable, and that under certain circumstances even appropriate that merit badges be taught in group settings, every Scout in attendance must “actually and personally†have completed the requirements, as spelled out by the merit badge. If the requirement states that the Scout must “show,†“demonstrate,†or “discuss,†then every Scout must do that.  The Guide goes even further, clearly stating that “It is unacceptable to award badges on the basis of sitting in classrooms watching demonstrations, or remaining silent during discussions.†(The Merit Badge Program, BSA National Website, 2017)   And yet we find in many council camps, groups of 20 or more Scouts are taking Eagle required merit badges such as Citizenship in the Community, Nation or World. 

              The expectation that badges such as these can be completed and earned in a group that large over a short period of time (3 to 4 fifty minute classes) is stretching the bounds of possibility, considering the fact that if conducted to standard, of the eight requirements, each scout would have to “discuss†four requirements, “explain†one, “show†one and “tell†two.  Yet somehow, scouts are returning home with completed Citizenship in the Nation merit badges.  Adjustments, compromises and exceptions have had to have been made to allow every Scout to “complete†the requirements to earn the badge.  Add to this mix, one counselor (who may or may not be underage, or inexperienced in the subject) can be found running several classes each day, and there is no way to know if a Scout actually actively participated, or just showed up. 

          National guidelines clearly spell out that “The same qualifications and rules for merit badge counselors apply to council summer camp merit badge programs. All merit badge counselors must be at least 18 years of age. Camp staff members under age 18 may assist with instruction but cannot serve in the role of the merit badge counselor.†(The Merit Badge Program, BSA National Website).  This means that those staffers serving as merit badge counselors must be registered in Scouting, and both knowledgeable and qualified in the subject that they are hired to instruct to sign off on merit badges.  It puts the onus on the Camp Director to certify that these standards are met, and that all badges earned where earned in compliance with the Guide to Advancement. 

            However, the Camp Director is limited by many factors, the most pressing of these is money.  In order to keep costs within the limited budget set forth by the council, the Director is limited to just how many staffers he or she can hire, and how much they can offer to pay them.  Coupled with a need to offer as many merit badges as possible, this means that hiring an all adult staff, qualified in the various badges offered is an unobtainable goal.  Instead, the pot is spread by hiring youth members, and assigning them as merit badge councilors for several different badges.  In addition, pleas are made for the adult leaders attending camp with their units to assist by teaching merit badge classes that the director could not fill. 

Restoring the Merit Badge Process in Council

             So how do we fix these issues? I suggest a two pronged approach to this issue. First, restore the credibility of the merit badge program by requiring that Scouts complete the requirements as written, and second review the merit badges that a camp should be offering, tailoring them to accentuate the facilities the camp can offer, and in turn, returning them to providing a great outdoor experience.

                  To restore the credibility of the merit badge program, we must first look to recruit qualified merit badge councilors.  While this may be the responsibility of the District or council advancement committees, (who are, by their nature, charged with the recruiting and training sufficient counselors in order to meet their unit’s needs) we as Commissioners must always be on the lookout for individuals that can serve.   

            An already present resource in the councils are their registered adult leaders.  Scoutmasters and assistant scoutmasters should be encouraged to sign up as merit badge counselors, taking on one to three badges of subjects that they are both qualified and comfortable.  Unit Commissioners should work with the Scoutmasters to identify other unit level leaders and parents, who might also be interested to serve.  From both of these sources, a master list should then be compiled for Scoutmasters to refer to when a Scout is ready to pursue a merit badge.   

            District and Council Commissioners can network with those who belong to the same civic groups as they do, such as the American Legion, the Lion’s Club, Shriners, PTA, etc. By doing so, we can gather names of people who may be qualified to serve, and pass them along to the advancement committee for follow-up.   In addition, we can help ensure that these individuals are fully supported by conducting both Youth Protection and the Merit Badge Counselor training. 

Suggestions for Improving the Camp Experience

            Camp.  The word as defined by Webster’s is “a place usually in the country for recreation or instruction often during the summer, a program offering access to recreational or educational facilities for a limited period of time, such as a resort offering boating and hiking campsâ€.   For the purpose of this paper, I will be breaking out the three types of camps currently run by the BSA, these being High Adventure, Traditional and Combination, but will concentrate on the Traditional. 

            At the pinnacle of Scouting’s camps lies the High Adventure Camp. (HAC)  These camps offer specialized, unique scouting opportunities such as back country  backpacking expeditions, sailing and scuba diving, wilderness canoe excursions,    Philmont Scout Reservation, Florida National High Adventure Sea Base, Northern Tier and the Summit Scout Reserve  are the best known of these, with Swamp Base in Louisiana and Sea Scout Base-Galveston two local examples. 

            A combination camp offers scout units the choice of either the traditional camp experience, or a specialized program.  One such example of this would be the Sid Richardson Reservation, run by the Longhorn Council in Texas.   This camp offers the troops Scouts to either participate in a traditional summer camp experience (earning merit badges) or in a series of high adventure activities that do not lead to merit badges, where the Scouts immerse themselves in various historical periods where the can experience life as a Texas Ranger, Civil War soldier, UFO hunter, and other fun activities.  

            This brings us to the Traditional Camp experience.  When one thinks about the traditional view of a Boy Scout summer camp, the mind congers an image of a woody place with hiking, canoeing, and campfires.   But today, many of our council camps have changed this view with a greater emphasis on offering as many merit badges as possible.  This is largely to counter a trend in decreasing enrollment in summer camps, due to competition from other council camps as well as non-scouting venues. 

             But you say, “Don’t the Scouts want to earn merit badges?† Yes, in a sense they do, and because of this, the camp has become almost an extension of school.  Instead of taking time to just relax and enjoy nature, our scouts are regimented into a schedule of six to eight periods of instruction of fifty minutes each with 10 minutes to move from class to class.  Many of the badges offered are neither nature or outdoors related at all, and are all but impossible to complete in the allotted time, and the subjects being taught could have just as easily been done at the Scouts normal meeting places or in his community.  While some camps take time off from this schedule to offer inter-camp activities, these are usually poorly attended by the units, as the boys tend to use this “free time†to do the things that they really want to do. 

                So what is a cash strapped Camp Director to do?  First, take stock of what your camp has to really offer a Scout, in order to get the most out of his outdoor experience.     A summer camp environment should allow the Scout to learn new outdoor skills in a safe and nurturing environment.   What merit badges can you offer that a Scout that fits your camp environment?

References:

A Guide for Merit Badge Counseling, No. 512-065,

The Merit Badge Program, BSA National Website http://www.scouting.org/home/guidetoadvancement/themeritbadgeprogram.aspx#7011

Hello all.

I am currently working on my Commissioner thesis for my Doctorate in Commissioner sciences, and have hit on the topic that as a Commissioner, I have been approached by Scout Leaders in the past, this being, do scouts really earn the merit badges they sign up for at camp? 

The questioning comes down to various shortcuts, inexperienced staffers, and badges that the leader knows that the Scout could not have completed in the time and with the resources allotted.

As Scout leaders, what are your concerns?  What are your suggestions to fix this issue?

Attached is my first draft of this paper.  Your assistance and comments either way are welcome.

Thank you.

Yes, I will say that staffing Wood badge was "one of" the best experiences I have had in Scouting.  The best was sharing the love of Scouting I gained as a youth member with my son as he progressed from Bobcat to Eagle Scout, the time spent outdoors at various camps with my troop as Scoutmaster, and seeing several of these scouts also make Eagle. 

Because I chose to make the military as a career, I didn't get as much time to take off, and spent it with the boys camping.  I had to be very judicial with the time off that I got. (Thankfully I had an understanding wife.)  After retiring, I was finally able to take Wood Badge, and found it to be a rejuvenating experience.  Staffing the course was doubly so.  As BP said, "Every boy deserves a trained leader", I feel that staffing the course touches not only the adult participants, but all the boys they will encounter in their scouting careers.  The joy of giving back to an organization I feel strongly about is important to me, and the experience was terrific, thus I recommend that if you can, you should take the opportunity to staff.

Oh, and don't worry The Blancmange and Col. Flagg.  No offence is taken, as I am sure it wasn't given.  Thanks to all who came to the defense.

I must be one of the lucky one's.  After 25 years of marriage, the wife understands that when we got married, I was a scouter, and that Iit was apart of my life.  So, if I go to a scouting function, she'd find something to do to also get out of the house.  Lately, the wife goes to visit our grandchildren.  So I guess, in my house, the problem is solved.  And thanks to my daughter and son-in-law having grandkids, I have two additional scouting oppertunities already lined up after my last son ages out.

 

So I am waiting for the invite to work as a staffer. 

So, an update....

Since my last post, I was called to serve as a Troop Guide for S2-578-17-1, which took place over the months of March and April of this year. 

All I can say is that it was a lot of hard work, a lot of traveling between two councils (it was a multi-council course) several weekends away from home (due to distance) and lots of prep work, but it was one of the most rewarding experiences I have ever had in Scouting.

If you get an opportunity to staff, jump on it!

As a Scoutmaster, I find that parents coming out of Cub packs are confused over the differences between the two programs.  Whereas in Cubs, the boys are for the most part "passive participants" when it comes to advancement, the leaders teach and run the activities and the boys get awards and advance together, in Boy scouts, they must become "active participants" where as they move up  in the ranks based on their individual ability and interest.  You wouldn't believe that i have been told off by a small clique of parents that I wasn't "advancing their sons" fast enough to make Eagle, and thus wasn't doing my job as Scoutmaster.  Can you believe that they took offense that  I expected the older, more experienced scouts to train the younger ones in scout skills?  That I allowed the SPL and patrol leaders to have a say in what the troop is going to do each year?  And let them choose summer and winter camps?   Why, the troop down the road didn't do that.  Oh no, the adult leaders ran the meetings and did all the training.  The boys earned a merit badge a month and they all made Eagle. 

they didn't like my answer, and took their sons out of my troop and enrolled them in the troop down the road.  Several weeks later, reality hit, and they were gone from that troop too.. 

Sad thing is that I sit down with all the new parents and explain the rules of advancement to them.  One.  Not all scouts will make Eagle.  (If they did, it wouldn't be special now would it?)  Two.  Your son can earn the Eagle Rank (But he has to want to do it. It's ok to support him, but if you push him too hard you will ruin his scouting experience, and if you do it for him, the rank will mean nothing to him.)  Three.  My job as Scoutmaster is to make the opportunities available to him, to give him the opportunity to try and possibly fail in a safe environment, so that what he earns, he treasures.  Four.  I would rather your son, when he ages out of the program at 18, look back at the time he spent with us in scouting as the best time in his life than have him make Eagle.  For he has been exposed to positive traits that he will carry with him for the rest of his life.  Five.  This is how I "run' our troop. 

While I can understand the humility, it's the example that they set to other scouts and the public at large that is highlighted when heros like these are recognized with the medal.  Many people may be trained, but not willing to step up when the need arises.  they never know, someone in the audiance may be inspired to take the lifesaving training, and save their life one day.

Oscar de la Renta and Ralph Lauren would like to know which of them you are referring to.  Well, ODLR is no longer with us, but you know what I mean.  And he's the one you are referring to.  We weren't wearing his uniform in 1972-73 though.  It was not introduced until 1980, several years after I was out of Scouting, and long before I got back in.

You are right on the date of the ODLR.  Guess I'm growing old and senile and I can't staff no more...

Been in scouting for many years now.  With the exception of two years in Korea, (No scouts at the DMZ where I was stationed) I've been an active scouter.  Strange how the years go by and blend together.  So many changes...

 

 

All I have ever heard about this in "real life" was when I was a Scout, probably around 1973, when some of us were speculating on why the then-new uniforms no longer said "Boy Scouts of America" over the pockets but now said "Scouts B.S.A.", and someone (who that may be is lost to history) responded that "Oh, the Boy Scouts is going to merge with the Girl Scouts."  That was about 44 years ago and it hasn't happened yet.

Crossed over in 1972 to a scout troop.  Ah the good old days in GNYC, Oscar de Loren uniforms, hiking the Palisades trail from the GW bridge and camping weekends at Alpine Scout Camp without any adults.  Good times, good times...

My fellow Bear patrol members and I loved bacon so much, that we had out troop guide procure the patrol extra bacon "brought in" during the first two morning breakfasts, and then incorporated  bacon into every meal during days 4 thru 6.  Our cheer, "bacon, BAcon, BACon, BACOn, BACON!"  with each bacon louder that the one before it. 

Every time we entered "Gilwell Hall" or "Gilwell Field"  we'd loudly sound off with  "Tremble with fear, da Bears are here!".  If another patrol was late and the SPL asked where they were we'd shout, "Eaten!"  And we'd always needle the other patrols, finishing their cheers with "Takes six to make a meal" (Bobwhites), "A meal complete with spoon" (Beavers), "Tastes like chicken" (Eagles), "What the fox said, ring, ding ding..." (Fox),  "Night time snack (Owls) and "Pies, pies everywhere, but none of them to eat (Buffalo).  We had no Antalopes. 

Needless to say, our Scoutmaster regretted telling our patrol to "Embrase your inner critter"

Now I'm going to be a Troop guide for the Eagle Patrol.  Guess that makes me a Beagle Scout.

 

I thought there was an agreement between the two organizations that they wouldn't do that.

 

if there is, it's a handshake deal.  Cant see either side putting something like that in writting.

Anyone think that GS\USA would be happy if the BSA opened it's ranks to girls?  Any thoughts on what would hapen to their membership numbers?