cchoat

I would not make that assumption, fellow counselor.  The BSA is regarding this child (using the example of the Cub Scout in New Jersey) as a boy and accepting him as a boy, even though his birth certificate says he is a girl and he presumably has the physical characteristics of a girl.  There is nothing in the BSA's statement that indicates he is going to be regarded as a boy for some purposes (like membership) and a girl for other purposes (like YP.)  If that is going to be the case, I think the BSA had better say so pretty quickly, or else inadvertent YP violations are inevitable.

 

Perhaps @@RichardB could educate us on this subject?

(Edited for spelling errors)

Here in lies the rub...

Until the first lawsuit is filed by a transgender boy who feels discriminated against, we will not know which way this whole issue will go.  National has stated that it will allow transgender boys to join, but again allows the local unit to decide if the "boy' can join thier unit.  It quotes the right of the religious chartering organization to select leaders and youth members that are not in conflict with their churches teaching. 

So...

In my neck of the woods (Southwest Louisiana), we lost many of our units when national made the first decision in 2013.  Many of the COs bounced the troops because it went against their religious teachings.  A few more left in 2015.  As the District Commissioner, the COs all quoted the same mantra, "Yes, we have a religious conflict, yes, we have always allowed boys from other faiths to join our units, but this is too much.  It is not worth the negative press and time to fight a case that we will legally win in court, just to lose in the court of public relations.  Easier to not recharter and drop the whole headache.  And while national has stated that it will fund a defence, the COs remember that national went to court to defend the BSA's right to free association in the early 2000's only to change course when the "money" began to dry up.  So there's little trust there.

Frankly, my CO (I am also a Scoutmaster) and i have sat down and discussed this matter and will accept any youth looking to join.  This is the third conversation I have had to have and thankfully the CO of the church is open minded. What worries me is that National was quick to change, and now slow to put out policies that will address the YPT concerns of units that may have these youth in their membership.  This could give national an "out" of it's pledge to support local units decisions on the grounds that YPT was not properly followed.  (The "boy" was segragated and forced to shower before or after the other boys in the troop as an example, or required to use a seporate "gender neutral" bathroom at camp.) 

But...

To this end it is our troop policy that we will sit down and explain that if the "boy" wishes to join, one of his parents will also join the troop and willtake all the required training (YPT and position specific) and that they will attend all troop events with their youth.  I will stress that this is because I not only have the best interests of their scout in mind, but that of my fellow leaders.  As an adult leader, this parent will be able to see everything, be involved with everything, and hopefully defuse a potential lawsuit before it rears its ugly head. 

OBTW: I am blessed with an abundance of two man tents to allow one scout per tent, so this is one issue that I will not face. 

Let's try and look at the bright side of this issue.  Now we will have to spend money to provide additional "Gender neutral" rest rooms and shower facilities at our council and national scout camps in order to not discriminate against the transsexual scouts (and Scouters, yes we might as well prepare for them too.) so that they can be treated like every other boy. And since National is expecting its handling of this issue to apease the PC crowd, (like all their other great changes) they can spread some of the new wealth they expect to gain from all the corporate sponcers that will come rushing back with their check books open and pay for these improvements.

Plus, my Council Exec reminded me that the BSA national office will pay legal fees should a unit sponcered by a religious entity decide not to allow transexual scouts to join and be sued for discrimination.  Can I take that to the bank or what?

"Welcome to the "campfire" Be_Prep! always room for another. I guess some scoutmasters were never told that the word scout master is like unto school master. to wit a teacher, a mentor, a friend, not the lord and master of all scouts, sad."  Oldscout448

I remember reading somewhere that Baden-Powell wasn't happy about the BSA when it used the term "Scoutmaster" for it's adult leader.  He saw the negative in the term "Master".  If you look around the world, the term "Leader" is used to reflect this (Troop Leader, Cub Leader, etc)

If that was my patrol (~1985-1987) SCCC, we had a UPC barcode drawn with a sharpie on the blank batch.  Flag was also plain white with a UPC barcode drawn on.

Had a "Generic patrol" in the troop two years ago.  They got creative.  Their patrol flag was a white flag with the words "Insert Design here" in the center.  Their motto was "Insert motto here" and they used a blank patrol patch 

I have never seen an MP3 player in one of those pockets.... 

How could you have seen anything in that pocket?  Most people found the easiest way to sew on a Position of Responcibility patch on the little pocket meant you sewed the darn thing shut.  

As a long time OA member (1977) and father of the current Lodge Chief, I have seen many changes that have IMO brought about a lessening of the luster being in the OA use to have.  The biggest problem in my neck of the woods is the "Sash and Dash" canidates, who after going through the ordeal, are either never seen again at a lodge function, or choose to only attend the "fun' activities such as Fellowships and Conclaves.  This is because again, IMHO, the changing of the election rules from so many per troop based on troop size, to all that are eliable can be elected has cheapen the admission standards to the point that at most unit elections everyone who stands for election is elected.   No longer is it somethintg to strive for, to work toward, but an automactic pass once the scout has obtained First Class and the required camping requirement.  Coupled with the fact that Scout leaders at the troop level will not assist in enforcing uniform regulations (The lodge flap can only be worn by "ACTIVE" members of the OA, this being having paid the annual dues to the lodge and participated in at least one event per year, too easy right?) has resulted in the current trend of "Sash and Dash". 

So without active youth members, Lodges struggle to staff dance and ceremony teams, let alone perform the service to the council that they once did.  On many occations in my lodge lately, the adult members present for meetings and work projects far exceeded the youth.  My son, who is the current lodge chief, has decided that he no longer wishes to stand for re-election becuase saddly, no matter how much he begs and pleads, the other youth have "other things to do" or having taken on a responcibility to head up an activity or committee, just don't do anything, causing him to to have to scramble to fix things, while the "adults" lament about the old days.   

Scout leaders, if your scout wears an OA flap, check to see if he is still eligable to wear it.  If not, remind him of his oblegation to serve his lodge, or make him remove it from his uniform.  Remember, lodge flaps are official BSA insignias, issued by the lodges as regnition of continued service to the council.  Help the lodge help your units.

Rights, duty and obligation. 

You have the right to vote, the duty to research and make yourself familiar with the various canidates, and the obligation to cast an informed vote.

That's how i would boil down Mike Rowes long comment on voting.

Yah, as far as I know da blue cards don't matter to a typical scout shop.   Sales of restricted items depend on da ScoutNet record, as updated by advancement report forms from the troop.

 

Beavah

Same here.  While the local Scout shop here will sell the scout badges, they will check the ScoutNet before the sale.  Trust, but verify. 

I think the real problem is going to be the new laws coming out of the Department of Labor effecting overtime pay for those making less than $913 per week or $47,476 annually.  That could most easily be our District Executives and below professional staffers.   And what about hiring staffers for summer camps?  They easily put in more than eight hours a day.

Yah, hmmmm...

 

@@cchoat missed da next part, eh?

 

Beavah, No I did not. I think the Scoutmaster is wrong.  Read what happened to the scout and what 7.0.4.7 Limited Recourse for Unearned Merit Badges says. 

 

"From time to time, it may be discovered that merit badges could not actually have been earned. For example, a Scout who returns from summer camp or a merit badge fair with signed blue cards for an extraordinary number of badges could raise concerns. If, after consulting with those involved in the merit badge program—such as an event coordinator, the camp director, or a merit badge counselor—it becomes plainly evident that a youth could not have actually and personally ful lled requirements as written, then the limited recourse outlined below is available. It may result in a decision that some or all of the requirements for a badge could not have been ful lled, and thus, that the badge was not actually earned.

 

Now is the scoutmaster questioning the event coordinator or councilorsas to whether the scout has completed the requirements?  No.  What is happening...

 

"My son likes going to merit badge days because our troop never works on them as a group and many of the counselors are unreliable to work with individually. We have a lot of days around here, and if our schedule is free, we will let my son pick out a badge to sign up for. We have gotten the signed blue cards, we have given the counselor's names, my scout will work on the requirements weeks or months in advance,"

 

Weeks, or months in advance, the boy is working on the requirements.  So he is prepared when he sits down with the councilor, he has it down pat and the councilor credits him for the badge.  I bet if the scoutmaster had asked the councilor, he'd have learned that. So what should have been the second step if the scoutmaster, after questioning the councilor or event coordinator still had concerns?  The next paragraph in the regulation says:

 

"After such a consultation, the unit leader, in a positive environment similar to that of a unit leader conference, discusses with the Scout the circumstances under which a merit badge in question was approved. A parent or an assistant unit leader should attend as an observer. The young man shall not be retested on the requirements, but a conversation with him can reveal if he was present at the class and actually and personally ful lled all the requirements. Such a discussion could cover who taught a class, what sort of activities took place, where and when they occurred, how testing was done, what the Scout might have brought home from the class, and other similar process-oriented details. In most cases, with a fair and friendly approach, a young man who did not complete the requirements will admit it."

 

So what does the scoutmaster do...

"... the troop is now giving my son a nasty attitude about getting these badges and going to the merit badge days. Every time he turns in a blue card the SM grills my son about every detail, when the SM does NOT do this to other boys (I volunteer, I know). At his last meeting, someone came out and gave a speech about how, if they find fraud they'll revoke merit badges, even if the scout has had the badge for years. The next thing that happened was that my son was asked to step aside and be grilled again about every detail of an eagle badge he earned.

 

Not very positive for sure.  I did mention the following on my post: "there is a mechanism for unit leaders or others to report concerns to a council advancement committee on summer camp merit badge programs, group instructional events, and any other merit badge counseling issues— especially in instances where it is believed BSA procedures are not followed. See “Reporting Merit Badge Counseling Concerns,†11.1.0.0 "  But in this case, based on the information provided by the parent, i do not see this applying.

As a long time active member of the OA (Tapped out and Ordeal in 1978, Brotherhood in 1985) who has had the opportunity thanks to a twenty-one year Army career to be a member in multiple Lodges around the world, I can say that it is thelocal council lodge that makes or breaks the reputation in it's area for the boys within it's reach.  Good lodges with good programs and support do well and attract members.  Poor ones do not.  Simple as that.

In my current neck of the woods, the local lodge is still rebuilding after losing many of the dedicated adults, who due to changes in BSA policy, cut thier ties with Scouting.  This, combinded with the loss of thier units and scouts, has meant that it has not been able to be as active at council events as it had in the past.  It's not so much that it has lost its luster, its just been out of sight.  When our scouts dont see the Arrowmen staffing, or get to watch the ceremonial dance team perform at council events then the OA slips into obscurity.  

Quazse is right when he states that today's youth are guarding thier time and money these days.  With so many choices, if a local lodge doesn't sell itself well, then the time and money will go elsewhere.  And Tampa Turtle, I too never liked the OA being referred to as the "National Honor Society of the BSA".  I much preferred "Society of Honored Campers", which is a much truer to the aims and purposes of the order.

"Once a Scout has been tested and signed off by someone approved to do so, the requirement has been met."

Section 7.0.0.3 in the “Guide to Advancement†states the Scout must discuss the merit badge with his unit leader and get a signed blue card from him or her. The leader then proceeds to give the Scout contact information of a registered, approved merit badge counselor.

The unit leader authorizes those who may test and pass the Scout on rank requirements. They might include his patrol leader, senior patrol leader, an assistant unit leader, another Scout, or the unit leader himself.

Merit badge counselors teach and test him on requirements for merit badges.  Ultimately, it will be the counselor’s decision whether the requirement was fulfilled, or not.

As for "Merit Badge days", while I personally as a Scoutmaster am not to thrilled about them, BSA policy states:

It is acceptable—and sometimes desirable—for merit badges to be taught in group settings. This often occurs at camp and merit badge midways, fairs, clinics, or similar events, and even online through webinars. These can be efficient methods, and interactive group discussions can support learning. Group instruction can also be attractive to “guest experts†assisting registered and approved counselors. Slide shows, skits, demonstrations, panels, and various other techniques can also be employed, but as any teacher can attest, not everyone will learn all the material. Because of the importance of individual attention and personal learning in the merit badge program, group instruction should be focused on those scenarios where the benefits are compelling.

A Scout who has earned a merit badge from a registered and approved counselor by actually and personally fulfilling the requirements as written will have met the purpose of the merit badge program and the contribution to the aims of Scouting. The badge is his to keep and count toward his advancement. See “Personal Growth Is the Primary Goal,†2.0.0.3. The same holds true if a Scout, without intent to violate national BSA procedures or policies, fulfills merit badge requirements with someone who is not registered and approved as a counselor. This could happen, for example, if a Scout, in good faith, contacts someone who has inadvertently been dropped from a unit or district charter or otherwise has an expired membership, but who remains on an approved list of counselors.

Finally, there is a mechanism for unit leaders or others to report concerns to a council advancement committee on summer camp merit badge programs, group instructional events, and any other merit badge counseling issues— especially in instances where it is believed BSA procedures are not followed. See “Reporting Merit Badge Counseling Concerns,†11.1.0.0

So, to answer your question, the Scoutmaster should not retest the scout, nor should he discourage the scout from seeking additional resources for advancement.

Thanks JJLASH,

Yes, this is my first time staffing a Wood Badge course.  It's going to be a cluster course, between to different councils in two different states.   I was selected for this position by my council based on the fact that I am a Disbursing Officer with the Department of defense and known to be a "detail oriented" guy.  (I wanted to be a troop guide, or maybe Scribe, but...I serve where I am needed.)

If you could e-mail that budget, i'd really appreciate it.  clive.s.choat.civ@mail.mil is my address.   

I like the idea of  a "smores kit" and am going to use it.  

I actually bought alot of critter stuff that my course's trading post supplied which came from Class B, so I was planning on suggesting it.  I will go with your suggestion to contact them directly.

And you have reinforced the need to keep a tight handle over the budget.  I have got the same advice from others on the various Wood Badge groups on Facebook. 

From what I have read and learned from others, QM may not run the course, but it doesnt run without him (or her). 

If you think of anything else, please let me know.

 

7a) The coffee pot should always be on!

 

One thing that I have got in my request for feedback, was in addion to Coffee, provide Tea and Hot Chocolate for those who dont drink Coffee. 

Thanks all for the good advise.  I am not one to reinvent the wheel, but a good planner and organizer, so it's important to me to be the best QM I can be.  Already have a "obsessively compusive detail guy" lined up, willing to help and approved as assistant QM, so that's one box checked off.   So far, I have reviewed the 2016 course sylibus and I am starting a list of questions that I hope will help steer everything in the right direction.

What does the staff really want?

Is there anything extra I can provide to help them "kick the training up a notch"?

What type of trinkets sold well?  

What were the participants asking for?

What should I steer clear of?

How do I stay in budget?   Don't have one yet, but working on a draft (based on prior course info, plus additional info I can gather at forums such as this) to present at upcoming "Meet and Greet" next month.

This is a request for assistance to anyone who has ever been asked to staff a Wood Badge course as the Quartermaster.  What, if any, difficulties did you encounter?  What should I be on the lookout for? 

I want to provide the best experance for the participants, by "being prepared" for as much as possible. 

I always sit down with the new parents and let them know that i will only say no to the boys if its a health or safety matter.  At the PLC, I gently steer the youth leaders to consider ways to mediate any issues that I may feel that would be serious, but will allow them to try whatever they plan, to the point where they fail.   Hiking, canoeing or swiming when it's raining, check.  Doing so during a thunderstorm, Nope.  Wait it out, and move on to alternate plan. (Weather safety taken by all youth leaders and incorporated into planning). Expensive trip planned, but fund raising planned fails to meet costs, lesson learned to either scale back expectations or start fund raising earlier.  Always have a backup plan.  Thus training and mentoring the youth leaders is important. 

With that said, the local Pack transisioned it's Webelos to the troop in August this year, to allow all their boys to earn thier WEBELO and arrow of light awards under the new requirements.  So... 

We just came back from a long  planned, weekend camping trip that involved my established scouts working on earning thier Hiking merit badge.  Because this was already planned by the PLC, and knowing when we would pick up new scouts from the Webelos, it was understood that the younger boys would not have the opportunity to work up to the 15 mile day hike.  That didn't stop the event, nor did it stop the young scouts from trying.  While none of them completed the full 15 miles, (The PLC planned a path that looped back every 5 miles, knowing that the new guys would possibly have a problem) one did 5 miles, the other four completed 10, and the older boys got in their 15. 

Never rule out the ability of these younger scouts.  They can rise to a challenge.   And that's not allowing them to fail, but allowing them to suceed to the best of their ability.

In our troop, we provide the Eagle Presentation Kit (Patch, Mom, Dad and Mentor Pins and Medal) and eagle necker.  The new eagle scout is responcible to plan and put on his ceremony. This is all discussed with the parents when the scout reaches Life and begins to progress toward Eagle so there is no surprise.  It's up to the eagle scout family as to where and how fancy the ECOH will be.

Sorry, but I have to say that this isn't the 1900's anymore.  While even my generation (I was a Cub Scout in the early to mid 1980's) this might have been true, I have met plenty of excellent female Webelos leaders and Cubmasters since coming back to Scouting 5 years ago.  The Cubmaster who preceeded me was much very much into Scouting and the outdoors, and made a great Cubmaster/Webelos leader.  At one point I asked why we almost never saw her husband at Scouting activities, and she told me it was because he just wasn't very into the outdoors.  Over the past 25-30 years we've made a lot of progress in moving beyond gender stereotypes when it comes to camping/hiking/etc.  If you don't want to take my word for it, go out to Philmont and observe how many female rangers are on staff, and doing as well or better than their male counterparts.  This line is something I'd expect to find in the 1940's Cub Scout handbooks, not on a forum in 2016.

My apologies, I didn't mean to say that women couldn't serve as Webelos Den Leaders, and yes, even Scoutmasters for that fact. If you had read my post correctly ("Webelos is more dad and scout. Moms may be stil involved, but it is still an adult planned and led activity.") you may have noticed that I did not say that women could not serve as Webelos Den leaders.  I have been to Philmont.  I went through my Wood Badge course with two females, one a Cubmaster and the other a Troop Committee Chairperson, both life long friends and respected leaders.   So if my opinion is to you a bit "1940's"  (BTW, I wasn't around until 1962, but I digress)  it is my opinion, as this was what I went through in the late sixties, early seventies, as well as my experances as a Den Leader Coach and Cubmaster in the 1980s,  and I hold that it is an important transition point in a scouts trail.

So... To repeat myself, the main point I was making is that the Webelos program is suppose to be a transition program between Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts\Adult planned and led to Youth planned and led. too many packs are trying to cram two years into a year and a half, and it looks as if his son's pack cut that even further.  It was quite obvious that by short changing this scout by rushing him from the pack to the troop, he wasn't allowed to make that transition smoothly. 

Today most scouts are on other social medias such as Messenger,Twitter or Snapchat so e-mail can not be relied on as the first line of communication. A Life Scout who needs assistance with his Eagle project should have asked his SPL for a few minutes to address the troop at a scout meeting.  Following up with e-mail is acceptable, but to send it to a parent to remind his or her scout is kind of defeating the purpose of teaching the scout responcibility. 

As a Scoutmaster, I can understand that it can be a challenge for the new, younger scouts to enter into a scout troop.  The hard fact is that a 10 1/2 year old has alot to learn, and a short time to do it in a troop, in order to come up to speed.  I like to explain the scouting experance as follows:

Lion and Tiger is a family and scout program.  Adults plan, lead and guide the boys through the activities.

Wolf and Bear are a mom and scout program.  again, adults take the lead planning, leading and guiding the boys.

Webelos is more dad and scout.  Moms may be stil involved, but it is still an adult lplanned and led activity.

All told, during these years, the boys show up and advance as a group as they age.

Boy Scouts are planned and run by the boys with the adults taking on a supporting role, doing those activities that the boy cannot (banking, driving, etc)  The biggest problem I have with cub parents, who complain that their boy isn't getting any badges.  Advancement is the scouts responcibility, he chooses how fast or slow he moves through the ranks.   But I digress...

Reading the initial post, I can understand your sons dissatisfaction with the troop he is in.  But I feel it's his expectation that the troop has to adjust to serve his needs, as opposed to your son adjusting to and fitting in with them is the issue.  Unlike Cub Scouts where the boys are always in a group of the same age, troops run from the newest 10 1/2 year old just out of the fifth grade to the seventeen year old high school senior.   During this time, boys mature into adults, and their interests change and they become more independent.  So, troops activities will sometimes be more challenging for the younger scouts, and sometimes boring and dull for the older scouts.  It's the nature of the beast, and each troop handles it differently.  For example:

In our area, most Webelos cross over in February, at which time most troops are already half way through it's calender year (Our calender runs from August through July)  By then, the PLC has already met and schedualed out the activities for the year as well as summer camp, and the planned high adventure activity.   So the newly crossed over scouts dont have a say in the overall planning until the fall.  In my troop, this year the scouts planned to complete the hiking merit badge.  They have been making progress  and building up since last August, When the new scouts crossed over, they were already behind three ten mile hikes (under the old requirements)  and our scouts need to do one more ten and a twenty.   But, because they knew that come February, we'd have new scouts, they planned activities during the camping trips on which the hikes would be completed, for the new boys to do. 

Since the scouts decide what they are going to do, you and your son have to understand that alot of them will choose to do the fun and exciting outdoor stuff, such as camping, hiking, canoeing, climbing, etc.  STEM is a new program, and is thought of by the boys in my troop to be more school than cool.  That's why i always recommend that parents and boys shop around for a troop that meets their needs.  If your son was into STEM, then find a troop that uses that program.   if he continues in the troop and makes friends and advances, he can suggest that the troop particvipate in STEM. 

A 10 1/2 year old who just joined the troop should not expect to hold a leadership position, especially if he hasn't done much in the way of advancement and missed the bonding opportunity of summer camp in his first year.    Since the boys elect thier SPL and PL's and the SPL appoints his junior leaders (ASPL, QM. Scribe etc) a new scout has to learn to understand that he has a way to go before he can be a leader.  This is the time for him to learn how to follow, not lead, as this will come as he grows into the troop and scouting.   I blame this on what he experanced in Cubs, as each boy takes a turn as the Denner and Assistant Denner.   And as a new 10 1/2 year old scout, he is not ready for a Den Chief position, and no Scoutmaster will recommend a new scout with no experance for that position.  He needs to work on advancing his knowledge in scouting before he attempts to share it with Cubs.

If your son understands that he has to be patient, work on his scouting skills and advancement, then one day he will have the ability to influance his troop.  In scouting, it's up to the scout whether he soars with the eagles, or not.

I must be one of the lucky one's.  After 25 years of marriage, the wife understands that when we got married, I was a scouter, and that Iit was apart of my life.  So, if I go to a scouting function, she'd find something to do to also get out of the house.  Lately, the wife goes to visit our grandchildren.  So I guess, in my house, the problem is solved.  And thanks to my daughter and son-in-law having grandkids, I have two additional scouting oppertunities already lined up after my last son ages out.

So I am waiting for the invite to work as a staffer. 

For night alone that rests our thought
For quiet dawn that lights our trail
For evening fire that warms and cheers
For each repast that fuels our work
We give thanks, O Lord.  Amen.

Is this the grace your talking about?  We use it on conclaves as an alternative to the camp grace, and at the annual OA banquet

Ever think about talking to your District Commissioner and seeing if he could be made a Unit Commissioner?  That much experance could be of great value to another struggling unit in need.

Ah Desertrat 77,

You brought back memories of my OA Ordeal.   A match, half an orange, slice a bread and a raw egg. 

As for Guiness JoeBob, I don't think we can serve that on a Scouting activity.  (And I would prefer my Guiness egg free please)