johnsch322

T.K. asks if this is a hint that Chubb is raising capital for BSA survivors. Report: Private equity firms look to buy Chubb | Security Info Watch

I think all or most all that is contained in the TCC's plan is known to the BSA's legal team as most of it would have been brought up in negotiation. BSA legal felt after the May 19th they were going to lose exclusivity. I am assuming that the TCC gave their plan for contributions from the LC's to them and National. BSA National and the LC's are very afraid of the the TCC's plan knowing that it will make legal and logical sense and have the backing of the majority of the claimants. They had a meeting with their legal, gave up a little more, called the mediator who called the judge so they could get the delay and will now present a little morsel. TCC knows it won't be enough and so they were against it. Now we wait once again until June 4th. BSA will say look we are negotiating and the mediators will agree. TCC will argue there hasn't been enough progress and once again the ball will be back in the judges hands. Let us all hope that she doesn't pass it back to the BSA or the mediators but finally gives it to the TCC.

Not that I can see as there is no gag order in place saying there can be no comments on the case. This would be a judge's order and would be contempt if in place. It definitely is contempt for the court and very inflammatory.

Aw shucks another waiting game.

It is like a high stakes game of chicken or he who blinks first....loses.

Yet they are still being investigated and sued and having negative PR. I think just this week I read something about an archbishop. Not sure how that could be seen as a positive.

For my two cents I think you are short changing what publicity could be generated against both the National and the local level. I believe as this moves forward and more survivors come into the public eye more awareness that the average person will have in America. Most people I talk to who have never been abused, have a scouter in their family or are a mental health professional have no or little idea what has taken place. I think the NBC video which went out to a national audience is just the beginning of what negative publicity could come if there is no Global type plan approved. Think of how the Catholic Church is now globally known as a hunting ground for pedophiles. Former Boy Scouts speak out on sexual abuse claims, bankruptcy case (nbcnews.com)

As far as I can see there has been no such ruling and I believe there will be no rulings until Monday.

I am not exactly sure how to address this except to say the BSA has definitely has not acted benevolently towards any victim in its history. They chose to keep all that they knew as secret as possible (the perversion files started in the 1920's). They had to be sued and it took the Oregon Supreme Court order to make the files brought to light. Every victim was more than likely a dues paying Boy Scout, just like the Scouts of today. The image of the Boy Scouts became more important than the individuals including the non abused. The actions that have been brought forward are against the institution not against the individuals. Imagine a different scenario 40 years ago or 4 years if the BSA had recognized and conceded that it had a problem and debt owed to former scouts who had been victimized. Then on their own volition sold off the art, disposed of excess camps, turned to the LC's and said hey you will contribute XX amount of billions or we will cancel your charter, said the same to the CO's, and set up a system to help victims go after the insurance company's and or forced/negotiated with the insurance company's to contribute billions to a fund. in this scenario there would be no TCC to pay legal fees for or their own legal fees which theoretically could have added another 150 to 200 million into the fund. I have a hard time trying to host a "pity party" in my mind for BSA. I think the TCC's approach of leaving 2 years of cash to each LC is fair. this protects the "non abused currently-registered youth". This will also give BSA the opportunity to prove it has truly evolved and now puts scouters first before image.

$25 in 1967 is the same as $200 today. I could not readily find anything on award amounts during that time. I will say that that the award should be greater 50 years later since the actual damage to ones life can be more accurately measured. you would not be trying to guess what the abused future might look like. I might also add that the award that may have been received 50 years ago could have gone to therapy/counseling which could have mitigated the damage. For me personally when I read that the BSA knew that one of my abusers had possibly 12 or 13 victims in my troop my first flash of anger was if they knew why didn't they try to help. That was 12 to 13 boys out of what 30 to 35 that were scarred for life.

If they have been able to get insurance presently they will be able to in the future. I would think that the deductible would be extremely high.

Just curious what you mean by this....adjusted up or down?

As mentioned the TCC said that the table of what a claim was worth was for negotiation purposes. If you read into that then the 103 Billion would be the same. I am not the one to say that it is the bankruptcy judges decision to reduce amounts (can someone else comment on this) I will say there is a large gap between 2.7-7.1 and 103 billion. I do believe that the judge could rule on some motions to get the figure above what has now been proposed by the BSA.

Here is a link to what the TCC feels that an abuse is worth for negotiating purposes. Boy Scouts of America: Pachulski Stang Ziehl & Jones (pszjlaw.com) Couple that with the table Unique and Timely Abuse Claim Count by Local Council & Allegation Rows 1-264 (in white) list Abuse Claims against individual Local Councils. Rows 265-1,267 (in blue) list Abuse Claims against more than one Local Council Contained in: https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/213bd53f-b44f-45c9-97fc-246bcb7ca06b_4108.pdf And now we can see how the TCC came to value the abuse claims at 103 Billion

I would think that the BSA has another more robust plan for survivors (remember the motto "be prepared"). The "Death Trap B Plan" leaves all of the LC's and CO's on the sinking ship and the BSA National on the only lifeboats. Would they wave and say good luck? How much bitterness would that generate? BSA National needs the LC's or there is no BSA. Yes they can grant new charters but the publicity on the local and national level for the next 4 to 5 years will deter more parents from allowing their children become part of the organization. With out new blood BSA cannot survive and I am sure that they know this. If there is a Global Settlement then BSA can wave the flag and the spin will be look at what good we have done for our former members.

So I looked up my LC it has over 17M in net assets as of now I am the only claimant. I am in California as is the LC. I would think they would have to pony up a big chunk now or a larger chunk later. thoughts?

In my opinion ending the exclusivity would fast track the process. With more than likely two new proposals that could land on her bench in a couple of weeks and the BSA knowing that the TCC's plan will be very detailed and generous to the survivors they would have to produce something similar and then having a negotiated compromise between the two might work. Might scare the insurance companies and make them step up also.

Do you believe the BSA lawyers are losing credibility with the judge and if they are would that matter?

Or are dead, now so mentally ill they can no longer function as human beings, have a fear of acknowledging what happened, or afraid of what family and friends might think of them etc. etc. etc. but I very much doubt many would be in the two reasons you mention here. I say this as someone who has lived and carried this nightmare for over 50 years and this is not an attack on you or BSA or the YPT.

My bad I was trying to quote Qwazse.

I think one must be very careful about using the 85k number of claimants as a benchmark as to the number of victims. I looked at how many claims the LC that I belonged to had claims against it. I was shocked to find that I was the only one since when I looked at the perversion files and the BSA docs contained therein it says my perpetrator was suspected of abusing 12 to 13 boys. And that was in my troop. Could the real figure of victims be more in the 850,000 to 1 million range? Maybe not that high but it does suggest that it just might be way north of 85,000.

I am sure that 20, 30 ,40 possibly 50 years ago there was some sort of tracking of abuse and that tracking showed low numbers. The UK has a centralized health system "the NHS" for many decades and there has been abuse. Society will only know realities when victims come forward and I can attest to the fact that abuse survivors are slow to disclose i.e. USA Gymnastics, Catholic Church and the list could go on and on. You cannot track in real time and that is the fallacy of tracking abuse and trying to say what what a good job we are doing now. https://www.boltburdonkemp.co.uk/.../scouts-abuse-map

This is a strange conversation. The reason that BSA is in Bankruptcy is the abuse not because they had not payed their normal course of business obligations. I can say from my experience and I would tend to believe still occurs young boys/men are ashamed and confused after abuse and will not reveal to others in the aftermath of abuse. This would make any study moot. No one will know until 10 to 20 years from now if the YPT policies that have been successful. Some of the policy may work some may not. Just the fact that the Boy Scouts consists of young boys will always make it a magnet for pedophiles who desire them.

Because the BSA is non profit they have the control whether they go into Chapter 7. They cannot be forced. Welcome to the forum.

I think this would be a great idea. I have been searching for a forum were I could converse and talk about what I am feeling with other survivors. Most of us don't really no anyone else in our situation.