Navybone

13 minutes ago, PACAN said:

IMHO....this is a family discussion issue just like the YPT pamphlets for Scout Ranks and Cubs.   This is not just a BLM issue, it spans across all ethnic and other groups who experience racism possibly including groups we don't agree with?   

With an almost 600,000 loss of membership in the last year. The BSA needs to focus on their current issues that could put them out of business. 

Adding an Eagle Required MB is unnecessary.    If you want to inculcate this into scouts you make American Cultures a required MB for Tenderfoot.  Doing it as the last MB the night before a scout turns 18 does nothing for the scout or the younger guys.  Will this be a required line of questioning for the Eagle BOR?  All BORs?  How do you show diversity and inclusion diversity in your scouting actions?

Will the BSA eliminate the OA?   Indian Lore MB? 

Will they remove all references to Baden Powell from the history of the BSA?  Does the term Brownsea get axed?

Regarding Baden-Powell, to quote Bear Grylls  “Baden-Powell may have taken the first step in creating Scouting, but the journey continues today without him. We know where we came from but we are not going back." (I added emphasis).  The organization and the leadership can, must be stronger than one man. It does not mean tossing out all his ideas, it means keeping and strengthening the right ones. 

Regarding a pamphlet for family discussion - racism is a learned behavior.  The racism that Blacks in this country have been experiencing is not a new problem, and if we want to be part of the solution to end racism, of all types, than the MB is not a bad idea (be it a stand alone badge or part of American Culture).   Expose the youth to understanding the dangers and inherent inequity of racism, so that they can recognize it and act.  Empower them with the knowledge not to perpetuate.  Just like the CitNation MB makes the scouts learn about the Bill of Rights, this gives them the tools to understand why people protest when the constitution is failing them. After all, is not the mission of BSA: " to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law."

1 minute ago, dkurtenbach said:

As soon as BSA said, "this is what we're going to do," anything else BSA had say was irrelevant.  All that matters is what BSA is going to do, and what it is going to do is next to nothing:  a merit badge, a class, a review of names.

I do not agree that merit badges are useless, so I can see why I did not follow your logic earlier. 

4 hours ago, dkurtenbach said:

Something much more like this:  https://www.scouts.org.uk/news/2020/june/a-statement-from-chief-scout-bear-grylls/   A statement of support; of the idea that justice, empathy, and peace are part of the very fabric of Scouting; that these events reinforce the necessity for each Scout, each Scouter, each unit, each Council, and every other component of the Boy Scouts of America to ensure that we are living and acting every day in accordance with those principles.  It must be deep, open-ended, and continuing. 

By responding with steps that are minor -- a merit badge, a sensitivity class, a review of property names -- BSA is saying that the underlying racial issues are minor.  And that is coming from an organization that just a few years ago was seen as one of the biggest advocates of discrimination and exclusion in America.  

 

 

I am not tracking your logic -  BSA also put out a statement and then a decision to take positive action to educate Scouts on racism and discrimination.  The UK put a statement out and that is more proactive?  This is an opportunity to educate scouts on racism and discrimination, to have a difficult conversation about this subject, and hopefully develop young men adn women who can add to the conversation and elimination of this scourge.  Statements alone are no enough.  This is a chance for scouts to be educated and informed, and become the future leaders of this nation this program is designed for.  

3 hours ago, dkurtenbach said:

So we're going to introduce a new MERIT BADGE???!!!

Could there be a more trivial response to murder, anguish, and heartbreak?

What Alternative would you propose?

4 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Agree to that.  But these moves won't address any of that.  Stuff and fluff...

If there is a merit. Badge which discusses racism, discrimination, and how it is able to perpetuate, and how to see it and react, why is that a bad thing?How does that not help? Racism is learned, not an innate belief.     

16 minutes ago, 69RoadRunner said:

The virus does not distinguish between reasons for people gathering. Either it is safe or it is not safe.  If it is killing grandma to gather for one reason, it's killing grandma for all reasons.  If it's safe to gather for one reason, it's safe to gather for all reasons.

The Constitution guarantees the right of the people to peaceably assemble. When there are extreme circumstances, that right can be temporarily restricted, but the government does not get to decide based on whether they like or dislike the reason. 

I think we are both trying to say the same thing.  I agree with everything you say and was not trying to imply otherwise. 

1 hour ago, 69RoadRunner said:

The rules for this pandemic are now Calvinball.  Governors are extending lockdowns while participating in massive events with no social distancing.

I do not see the restrictions due to COVID on businesses and families and the seemingly disconnection with the protest as related.    Governors are caught in an interesting dilemma- Public health, economic development, and protest due to civil injustice.   All three are pulling at each other and none are necessarily supportive of the other.   
 

from a scouting perspective - look at the conversation we can have as part of Cit Nation, Cit Community, and Public health.  How restrictions and wearing masks are helping the greater community. And how protestors are so upset, they are willing to take risks to themselves to protest inequality based on race. Interesting times.   

31 minutes ago, 69RoadRunner said:

Tracing is impossible when people are gathering in large numbers at protests.

Schools reopening in the EU has not resulted in an increase in Covid cases, and that's indoors where it's more likely to spread, unlike Philmont.

 

This works for K-12, where all the students are from one area, and the COVID trend is declining.   They are also taking precautions like reduced class sizes, alternating days, and other cautions.  Schools are not opening in the more impacted areas.  all this is accomplished through understanding the health of the students and teachers, and deliberate risk mitigation efforts.  In short, this is not a viable model.
 

Unless BSA were to somehow limit Philmont participation to those areas where there was declining or no COVID growth, account for safe travel (?) - maybe only within xx miles driving range.....A better model is seeing how colleges fair when they start back up in person in the fall.  

For government purposes, I get why there ins concern with zoom and China, but for scouts?   Do we really understand how the internet works and cloud storage?  

what are the safety concerns you have?  If you set it up with a waiting room, you cannot be zoom bombed.  Is it because the servers are/were in China?  I think that has been changed recently.

What makes Scouts a successful program is having standards and holding the adult leaders and the scouts to them.  If the standards are dropped, then what the ranks mean drops.   This is the same reason that SMs or MB counselors are not to pick and choose the requirements they want to teach.  Either it means something, or it does not.

Some of these changes are OK and make some sense, but some are just ludicrous. 

The hand shake survived the 1918 Spanish Flu, so why would it not survive this?  It may take time, but..

Double secret conditional charter, obviously 

6 hours ago, carebear3895 said:

The BSA will be a shell of itself after this over and done. What's the number #1 killer of units? Not meeting or no activities. Well, that' what is happening across the nation right now. I'm willing to bet that 1/4 of all Cub Scouts Packs will never meet again post-corona. 

 

 

If units do not adapt and remain connected to their scouts, then yes, this will happen.  Sure, scouting is about being outside.  But it does not stop because cannot get outside.  This to shall pass and the scouts will be able to go back to camping and backpacking.  When -  who knows.  But we will.  And I am willing to bet that the units that are able to adapt and remain connected with their scouts at this time will see the scouts return.  At a minimum, virtual meetings provide an opportunity for some scouts (and their parents) to do and learn something.  A great way to weather this storm is to help provide structure for the scouts -  and advancement and merit badges are great ways to help parents who need help. 

Its not perfect, but if BSA does not learn to work through and thrive in this current crisis, then it will die.  And it is not national or the councils that will make this happen.  It will be the local pack or troop leadership who take their one hours a week (ha) and think creative.  It will be the "front line" leaderships who share resources, tips, and best practices, that make this occur.  What National needs to be doing is removing barriers and pushing capability down to the local level.  Not charging $5 for whatever fees for council led virtual merit badge sessions, but virtual sessions where they SEE their friends in the troop/pack.

We have been using Zoom - with the a fore mentioned limitations.  MS teams also works, but not everyone has it.  Our schools provide middle and high students with Chrome Books and come with google hangout/meet.  So may use use.  We are just starting and prefer Zoom in that you can share your screen as well as have an ongoing chat at the same time.  40 minutes also makes us be efficient. 

19 minutes ago, qwazse said:

IMHO, we are thinking about this wrongly.

The goal should not be doing only the MBs that you can complete during confinement. Rather, the goal should be learning what you and your team-mates are doing, and coming along side them to make their effort truly epic. This may mean you start a badge and hit a road block. No worries, that's what partials are for. Then you conference with your patrol, and line up a weekend or two to do the "do" requirements that imply some necessary social proximity.

 

Totally concur - it is OK to have partials.  Because when the social distancing ends, and it will, the scouts will be able to get out and complete the requirements they need to accomplish physically or in person.  Get the mundane or "talking"portions of advancement or merit badges done now.  We all have the time.  Lets absolutely not do that when we can all meet physically and get out and hike/camp/climb/swim/etc.  Well, maybe a short safety refresher.....

Perfect time to work on parts of CitNation, CitWorld.  Not to develop ways around them, but work on the parts of MB, like family life,  that can be accomplished now, and the rest will be done in due time. 

looking to do the same in my area -  finish up some Merit Badges that can be accomplished over a virtual environment, and then look at those that can be partially accomplished virtually.  I a thinking small groups (3-5) to keep them engaged, not just listening.   I am looking at platforms like Zoom (others are MS Teams, Chrome Meeting maker, and others) where you can host multiple people at once, share your desktop to show illustrations, slides, etc.   Probably in the evening, as in our district, the kids still have school work they are working on at home. 

thanks for sharing.

With schools closing and moving to on-line teaching, and groups gathering sizes being limited, how do we sustain interest in and maintain advancement, where we can, in scouting?  Virtual troop or patrol meetings on platforms like Zoom, trail to first class discussion in a chat room?  Emphasize some merit badges (reading) over others?  Interested in thoughts from the community.    

At the council for San Jose area, some leadership training and a University of Scouting event were cancelled.  

Article does not indicate anything about Girl Scouts - you have some insight on why they were not included?

9 hours ago, Pale Horse said:

NO.  BSA rules do not require a parent or guardian unless the Scout is a Tiger or Lion.  Refer to Guide to Safe Scouting which @T2Eagle quoted above.  Councils are able to set their own requirements at Council Events, but that is not a BSA rule and cannot be enforced at non-council events.

 

I am not sure you are reading it right or maybe in totality.  It does not specifically say parents are not required for wolf and bear.  It also says “ 

• Den leaders, pack leaders, and parents are expected to accompany the youth on approved trips.

https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/gss/gss03/

24 minutes ago, David CO said:

Yes.  This is because Scouts BSA is now openly and actively working counter to the goals and mission of my religion.  The message our scouts are receiving is very clearly articulated.  There is no hidden agenda.  Our boys should put their religion first.  

 

Any response and continuation of this line of thinking would probably be more applicable in a different thread.  

12 hours ago, David CO said:

Really?  I can think of several.

A MBC might not agree with the decision to include girls in scouting.  While he can't change the decision, he doesn't have to cooperate with it, and he doesn't have to donate his valuable time and skills to assist it.  Passive resistance.

YP protects the youth.  It doesn't protect the MBC.  

The Chartered Organization might not want him to be working with girls.  

 

Interesting argument - you are essentially saying that it is OK for a CO or a MBC to openly and actively work counter to the efforts, the goals, and the mission of Scout BSA.  Wonder why there may be issues is Scouts BSA.  I cannot help but look at this and think about the message that the scouts in troops like this are receiving and learning.  And then to look at the purpose behind scouting and what it hopes to instill in youth.