Navybone

1 minute ago, tnmule20 said:

Maybe not yet.  Give it some time.

So you do not think that it is worth giving BSA the opportunity to develop and implement a worthwhile DEI program not based on CRT? 

5 minutes ago, Armymutt said:

So the solution is to further isolate the workforce along personal identity lines, rather than figure out the problem and eliminate it at the source?  

The purpose of the workforce groups is to better understand the different cultures and so that BSA can understand there are bias (intentional or unintentional) in the processes or workforce management.   I have not seen anything that creates or encourages a group specific paths or efforts that would isolate anyone.  Have you?

2 minutes ago, tnmule20 said:

 Now, the minute this training or merit badge includes components of CRT all bets are off and I won't touch it with a ten foot pole.

Did BSA says its DEI programs would be based on CRT?  DEI does not equal CRT. 

2 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

I will feel included, and like I belong, when they disband all Workforce Resource Groups and treat people based on character and individual merit rather than categorizing people according to skin color, sexual preference, national origin, heritage, religion, voting preference, gender, mental illness, income level, language, etc. etc. etc. 

 

I think the point is that they have the workforce groups becasue people are not treated based on character and individual merit.

2 hours ago, JDOutwest said:

I am not comfortable with DEI.  Seems like it is CRT (Critical Race Theory) with a new label.  I started to take the training but it seems I don't speak the approved language.  Did George Orwell write fiction?  Not sure about DEI at all.  JD 

Did you get that after completing the training?  I would be interested in what issues you had with the training.  I thought it was pretty good. 

As part of Citizenship in the Community MB, Scouts are asked to attend a community meeting and then discuss an issue with the counselor.  Maybe these scouts have taken the lessons of citizenship to heart and see an issue that they feel strongly about.  Is the issue here that they are in uniform or the issue they have raised? 

To be honest, I think it is great that they are calling out the county commissioners for not following their own rules and requirements.  This is exactly what the engaged citizen should do. 

2 hours ago, yknot said:

I kind of disagree. Having the mentality that you don't cancel for bad weather is the opposite of what I think scouts is supposed to teach. We teach be prepared, which includes being prepared to change plans. Even D-Day was weather dependent. This is scouts, not the military. 

Yep.  I would hope that the mentality is that you just don't cancel for bad weather but look at how to minimize any risk due to the weather.  Sure, maybe that is move the camp out to the back of the church or what ever, but is there is process to assess and then develop mitigation efforts.  And you have to be willing to cancel if you cannot mitigate the risk.

47 minutes ago, MattR said:

I don't think you need the hat so it might be easier to just drop it all together. 

I like the idea of just one neckerchief.

Why the books aren't combined into one or just made into a pdf is a mystery. Of course, we know the answer. They make money on sales. 

For the books, they barely survive a year, so I cannot imagine one last four years at the cub scout ages 

12 minutes ago, docSquatch said:

Has anyone used remote apps for meetings during COVID; Google Classroom, Zoom, Teams, etc.? How did the Scouts/you like it?

In an effort to keep scouts involved and give them some outlet during the first 12 months of COVID (when we were locked down), we used Zoom and Google Classroom.  It is OK, but since the scouts were on it all day for school, they were less than excited.  I made them keep their cameras on, for sure.  ask questions, don't just talk, use programs like moodle (I think that was the name) to make it fun.  I would make quizzes  on the knowledge they needed to show, and they would compete to see who got the answer first or right the most often.  But, it does not replace in person discussions at all.

18 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said:

IMHO, seems quite a jump to equate "teasing" with "hazing".

It depends on what the person doing the teasing is trying to do, what is the intent?  How is it received? It is a thin line that all too often is crossed. 

What I would really like to know is how he was able to get into this position. As Texan asked, was he a registered leader?  Had he been vetted or checked in anyway?  Completed the YP training, etc.  I trust that the legal system will take care of this guy, and I hope that National would put every effort to be aggressive in ensuring that the maximum penalties are pursued -  if only to show that they are serious about youth protection. 

But I also really want to know where the system failed.  The first line of failure here has to be how he was able to get into this position to participate in the camp.  Was it at the camp level or at the troop level? 

58 minutes ago, fred8033 said:

I’ve been in decades of MBA courses and high performance team training and similar sessions.  From what I've seen ...   Leadership is not something that can easily be taught.  In fact, I'd question whether it can be taught.  What you can do is create situations where leadership is necessary and individuals will naturally learn. 

A nuanced comment on your assessment on teaching leadership, based on my experience (MBA and senior military leader) - leadership is learned by doing (being in a position of leadership) and having a mentor or guide to help develop the individuals leadership skills.   My concern and experience with naturally learning is that poor leadership skills that create results can be the the wrong lessons learned.  What I mean by this are use of yelling, fear, intimidation, threats, etc. and learning that those type of toxic leadership methods can be successful to get objectives met.  

Feedback from my Son's troop summer camp, based on scout and adult leaders comment (I could not go, unfortunately) , echo your sentiments exactly.   I do find the drop in cub scouting in our area, as a results of the pandemic and dearth of adult leadership, to be a significant concern. 

ear plugs?  I also find the first night is rarely a good night, but the next nights are always great sleep.  Really dislike one night camp outs. 

8 minutes ago, mashmaster said:

Understood.   Now let's be honest.  The scouts and their parents aren't looking at the number of knots on the uniform.  That is only something that other leaders will look at.  I have plenty of knots and know other leaders with none and with a ton.  It doesn't affect me and if that is what people are focusing on, they need a reset.

Yes, one hundred time yes.  And I would argue that there is no serious correlation between knots and leadership or ability.  Some units nominate people, some do not.  

8 minutes ago, mashmaster said:

I would also say, why would you just the overweight leader when you don't know the details and reasons behind it.  I am officially "obese" according to BMI number but I run multiple marathons a year.  people need to get beyond those first impressions.  

My original comment was in response to another comment about the message that the scout sees when a uniform is or is not correct.  I picked weight becasue it is an easy visual, as is looking at a uniform.  And regarding first impressions, I agree, same as how some might feel about the number of knots. 

12 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

Wow! Let's see; long hair, ear-ring, nose ring, tattoos, body odor, bad breath

I do not see anything about hair, piercings, or tattoos in the handbook.  I am all about inclusion.  But if the discussion is about what the message to the scouts, we have to be serious about what really see. 

10 hours ago, The Latin Scot said:

. The better question is to ask "what message am I sending to the youth and to other leaders by the way I wear my uniform and its insignia?"

What message indeed.  But if you step back and look at the individual wearing the uniform.  If the leader is grossly overweight, but has three knots, is that any better or worse than leader who follows the Scout oath to keep himself physically strong but is wearing 15?  What is the more important message that the scout should be getting from the leader?  And what is the message that the is really being sent to the scout.  Performance, leadership, living up to the Scout oath and law should always trump a minor uniform infraction.

8 hours ago, David CO said:

Not cool.

what is the issue?

1 hour ago, Sniktaw said:

Do people really think that it's not okay for a Scout to tent with his parent?

The fault is that Scouts BSA is trying to thread the line with “family camping” while trying to have a regular scout experience.   It only puts every leader in a no win position.  Ugg. 

26 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

The official answer from BSA National is this: NO (unless the scout is in Cub Scouts)

I gues the issue here is family camping - how does that change things.  If not at all, then why have it?  I did not see family camping mentioned specifically on the BSA webpage.  

3 hours ago, CynicalScouter said:

I have no idea how a scout is actually going to "Explain" "demonstrate" or "show" in a google classroom.

The merit badge mills are running, running, running...

If the counselor uses google meets as part of classroom, then it is a simple video chat to explain, etc.  

41 minutes ago, Bowsprit said:

Zero posters on this thread, regardless of their position on this issue, are coming across as racist or sexist to me. Yet, as I read through these comments, especially from certain commentors, there is a clear implied accusation that those of us against DEI training must be racist, despite a complete lack of any evidence to the effect.

I think there has been some spirited discussion, but I do not think anyone has called or implied anyone is racist.  

10 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

They announced this adhering to Black Lives Matter (note the caps).

https://scoutingwire.org/bsas-commitment-to-act-against-racial-injustice/

And then had to backpedal, hard, 10 days later in a letter to Law Enforcement Exploring Volunteers

 

I saw all that.  But I have not seen anything since then to suggest the MB is a joint BLM BSA badge or that BLM was involved in its development 

1 minute ago, CynicalScouter said:

No, but BSA has decided to align themselves and embrace them and use them as the basis for the MB.

That's not political?

Depends - I had not seen that they used BLM as the basis of the badge.  The BLM provide information for the requirements or the instruction booklet?   Does what they provided expand beyond understanding and recognizing racism?  I don’t know.  
I am not a fan of everything BLM stands for, but I do know that the accepting people, regardless of skin color, race, sexuality, sociology-economic status, education, etc, is basic human kindness and professionalism when one is an adult in the work force.  There is nothing political about that.  And I have seen youth come into the work force totally unprepared to start working with other unlike them.