Jump to content


  • Content Count

  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won


Posts posted by Navybone

  1. 30 minutes ago, yknot said:

    These works are beautiful representations of public art that are a snap shot of a historical moment and help tell the history of the time they represent. It is shameful and ignorant that anyone should suggest their destruction, removal or denigration. This doesn't happen in many other countries, just the idiotic United States and Iran apparently. Historical monuments of different viewpoints and eras in history are deserving of preservation and protection. 

    Beauty is in the eye of The beholder.  I see nothing of value in a statue of a southern general.   A memorial to those who caught and died, ok.  But for a failed general who was a traitor to his nation and Fought for a cause that one human was worth less than another - no.   And regarding destruction of monuments, go to Germany and look at all the building and statues that the Nazis created.   While buildings remain, the emblems of the Nazis are gone.  And nothing is buried - the Germans make all students see the horrors that the Nazis performed and ensure they understand how it came to be.  Maybe that is what should have occurred during the reconstruction.  Then there would not have been the romantic fever of the southern crusade that bloomed in the 1920s.   




  2. 3 hours ago, yknot said:

    Lee was a gentleman, but fighting for a horrific cause. ....And I'll leave you with this. Baden Powell was an acknowledged racist. Should we strike his name from scout history?  


    At least I agree with the second half of your sentence on Lee.  The civil war was fought at a level of brutality unseen at the time and only surprised by WW1. 

    History is not statues glorifying a false narrative of Southern sons fighting for states rights.  History is being willing to accept both sides of the story based on actual accounts and sources.  

    and interesting comment about B-P.  Never knew that.


  3. 1 hour ago, yknot said:

    And just to be clear, I find slavery reprehensible, I am not a Southern apologist or whatever the word would be, I just don't agree with this current fad of trying to erase history. 

    I do not think it is about erasing history, but not celebrating the history of this ideals, actions, or men of beliefs that have been found not worthy of emulation or celebration. 

  4. 22 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

    I'm going to infer that his role in the confederacy had more to do with a duty to his home state than to anything else.  But, once he joined that army, he did his duty as a soldier and fought for that army.  I have a hunch that were he living further north we'd be hearing about him as a well respected Union general.  

    But he did not fight for his nation, but put his state first.  And since he lost, he is, in fact, a traitor to his nation.  Hence part of the reason not to name a council after him.  Does not stand up to the test of being loyal. 

  5. Actually, it is sad that they have to use this as a time to promote awareness into sexual abuse.   I don’t have a daughter in Girl Scouts, but maybe they have done some research and are being more active leaning the BSA was years ago.  Maybe they are actually paying attention and taking lessons from the none stop challenge BSA is dealing with.  

    everyone knows that GSUSA cannot and will not dictate how families act this holiday season, but is bring attention to a real problem any different than BSA making scouts and parents talk about child abuse before a scout can earn Scout?  While maybe not perfect, it has you and others talking about it.   

  6. 6 hours ago, MattR said:

     Fifteen years ago all the liberals I knew viewed the BSA as a youth military development organization, Jr Jr ROTC, if you will. And while they still do, now the conservatives see us as morally bankrupt. Who wants to put their kids in that mess? And before anyone says "that's not my troop!" it's the image we have. And yes, this image is compounded by the fiscal incompetence of national. People with little or no experience with scouts are who the message needs to be focused on.

    I do not buy the narrative your describe for the scouts themselves.  I believe that there is crisis in faith of the leaders, down to the local level, based on actions of leaders in the past.  Even the homosexual and female fight is only used who have an axe to grind - and the fact that they hate that it has been overall successful.  But I want to use a horrible experience to illustrate that Boy Scouts still means something positive when used in reference to actual scouts.  When adults and neighbors described the boy who shot and killed some other students at his high school in California, the description was of surprise that he did it, and one of the reason was BECAUSE he was a Boy Scout.   His horrible actions are considered antithetical to the image of the Boy Scout. 

    So I argue that the image is less that of the actual scout, but the leadership, and so long as more sex abuse cases surface, that is the image the leaders have to fight to change.  But I believe the image of the actual scout and what they are learning remains positive and strong.  And that is where BSA needs to be focusing its PR campaign.  

  7. I actually see this as a positive reference to Boy Scouts.  They specifically call out participation in Boy Scouts because it is so counter to the message and the respect that is afforded Boy Scouts.  there is too much negative publicity because of abuses by Boy Scout leaders.  But despite that, the public perception of youth in Boy Scouts remains very positive.  This entire event is sad and occurs way too often.  But the references to Boy Scouts is all positive.   

    • Upvote 1
  8. 56 minutes ago, mrkstvns said:

    The problem is that there are also many merit badge events that are NOT good.  They take short cuts. When there are multiple options to meet a requirement, the bad merit badge class always picks the easiest and simplest, not the one that delivers a meaningful experience. 

    I keep re-reading this section hoping that I am reading it wrong.  It implies that options are simply an easy way out for scouts, and I do not think that is right.  What if the "easiest and the simplest" provides a meaningful experience to the scout?   Just because an option is harder does not necessarily translate into more meaningful.  Maybe the opportunity is that they scouts get to decide which to the multiple options THEY want to take.  

  9. Seems that if you are going to deliberately decide the BSA's ten essentials are not right or required since it is a short (10 miles) hike, then be confident in your assessment.  If you are including a knife, filter, and matches to ensure that you are prepared in the event something goes wrong (why is a flashlight an overabundance of caution and not a knife, filter, or matches), then the logic for not including the flashlight is questionable. 

    I do not think the 10 essentials are "canonical" in an effort just to be directive in nature, but based on lessons learned the hard way over time and written in blood.  

  10. On 7/3/2019 at 9:13 AM, mrkstvns said:

    First Aid merit badge workshops are often readily available in most communities. It's a badge that is easy for the scouts to earn during the school year, so I don't recommend our boys spend their summer camp time on it when they could be out doing canoeing, archery, horseback riding or some other fun badge that is not always available close to home.

    Great point also.  Make it fun!

  11. My son just completed his first Boy Scout summer camp.  earned swimming -  and totally think that is a great 1st year merit badge is the scout is a decent swimmer.  He also did Trail to First class.  And he and the other boys in the troop who took the course loved it.  Was it perfect, no.  Was it enough to make them smarter and more confident in scouting, 100% yes.  It is not the only time they will learn or tie knots, for example, but gave them a great foundation.  

    He also earned Pioneering, which he did to be more confident in knots and so he would learn how to build structures.  Loved it.  

    We were advised to take a balanced mix at camps, and it worked wonderfully.  He learned a ton, be became so much more confident outdoors, and left excited to be a scout.  What else should a first year scout come away with?  


    PS- but I like the idea of first aid next year.  

    • Upvote 1
  12. Eagle, thanks -  had not seen the picture or any of the context with them.  than clears up quite a bit of the issue.  Some quick research on this site and the magic of google shows she this has already been a source of considerable debate.  However, going back to the original post, the actions of one (Ms. Ireland), should not impugn the work of other young women working toward Eagle.  


  13. 36 minutes ago, FireStone said:

    It is documented, as I mentioned (media photos).

    A photo only shows you one thing - that she is wearing Life Scout.  Unless there is additional information in the photo or accompanying it, that is all it tells you.  What was her history with scouting, was she a venturer, how involved is her family, her troop, her motivation?    It does not and cannot tell you that anything was fudged, fabricated, altered, or all together ignored.  

  14. 23 minutes ago, FireStone said:

    On the question of whether there are any shortcuts being taken/given to girls, I don't think it's debatable. It is an absolute fact that it's happening (a prominent female scout was wearing her Life rank badge in media photos months ago).

    Unless you are personally aware of  personally involved with, or have documentation of, shortcuts taken by individual you mention, is is not fact. It is supposition on your part.   

  15. 1 hour ago, SSF said:

    I've never heard of the "rule of law" being applied to BSA advancement. 

    You sound like a criminal defense attorney, defending a guilty client

    No, the rule of law is part of the discussion for the citizenship in the nation merit badge discussion about the laws and founding documents of the United States 

    it is not part of advancement, but what we the program instills in our Scouts    


  16. 3 minutes ago, SSF said:

    Yes, this girl supposedly completed these requirements in very quick time, as you admit. Does it not strike you as odd that girls are racing towards advancement so rapidly?

    Correct we have no evidence that she did not complete the requirements properly. We also have no evidence to indicate that she actually did. All of this stems from the girl posting on social media.

    Two reason I look at this differently.

    1.  A scout is trustworthy - if she did not meet the requirements, she is obviously not meeting the intend, standards, and ideals of scouting. 

    2.  Part of the rule of law that we teach scouts is innocent until proven guilty.  

    The onus is not on her to prove you wrong, she only has to make her case to her troop and her council.   

  17. The success and meaning of the Eagle Scout is based on the integrity of the system.  And there are many posts in the thread that doubt that a girl was able to do what was required in such a quick time, despite lack of evidence to the contrary.   I have to wonder if it is based on concern for the integrity of scouting, or simply continued angst and disagreement with the decision to allow females in scouts.  

    If it is the former and short cuts are made, than BSA leadership needs to step up and ensure the process and system remains solid.  If it is the latter, the only results of their efforts will be to further damage the reputation of scouting and Eagle Scout, which I hope is not their intent.   

    • Upvote 1
  18. 3 minutes ago, qwazse said:

    I think you mistake what it means to be partisan. To allow individuals to express  their political views on non-uniform gear is not partisan. That opens the door for productive debate.

    Absolutely -  Engage the scouts and let them understand why hats, slogans, etc, can be interpreted differently, why some people take umbrage at symbols.   Is this not what we want the scouts to be - is this not why there are the three citizenship merit badges.  Don't we want the scouts to grow up thinking, being able to critically examine an agreement, not mindlessly provide what they have been told.  

    However, if the debate devolves into a two-sided argument that is not constructive, than it is time to step in.  there is a reason that in the Navy, three topics not to be discussed over the dinner table were politics, religion, and members of the opposite sex.  They can be polarizing.  

  19. I think it is a stretch to assume that the boy does not love his country or that he disrespects  the flag or the US.    As I have mentioned before, he would have learned that the flag is a symbol and not a holy relic.  It is a symbol of a great country.  Also, that being a good citizen includes speaking up for those who have no voice.  Again, the Webelos took a position, now let’s let him explain it. I think being able to discuss it makes him, and his den, a better scout(s).  

  20. 35 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

    My style of mentoring is guide the scout to answer his questions, because the process of self conclusions is the profound motivation to change a habit. It's one thing to be obedient because the adults says so, it's different when the scout determines it is the right thing to do. I want the scout to answer to himself why he acted the way he did. 

    As I stated before, I'm skeptical of a 10 year old making a protest of this nature. Acting out of step of the herd exposes one to danger, which is why the behavior is not instinctive at this age.

    Totally agree.  

  21. To the point of what did it accomplish - it has been successful - people are talking.  

    If I think about it, not sure that Scouts should have a definite definition on if a protest is ok in uniform.  It is quite right to explain the action of one is not the position of the organization, but the Scouts is about developing thinking men and women.   And if this boy can explain is reasoning, there is great value to be gained here. 

  • Create New...