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Posts posted by Navybone

  1. 2 hours ago, Eagledad said:

    The best leadership development in a scouting program doesn’t come from proactive leadership development activities, the leadership development comes from the passive process of repeated observations of behavior. Just from observing others during their activities, scouts learn trust what behavior is acceptable and what is not. It should go without saying that troops that use role modeling for growth aren’t just good  leadership troops, but also well disciplined.

    The best advice I heard about leadership was from my department head when I was a brand new Ensign.  He told me to get a small black book that fit in my back pocket.  One one side, write all the leadership traits and styles your admire and the on the other, all the traits and styles you don’t admire.   That passive collection of leadership and management techniques taught me more than any classes or seminars.  And over 20 years in, I have given that advice to many a young officer or sailor, and now to scouts.

    regarding authenticity, while still an Ensign, I quickly realized that the sailors in my division could tell when I was up front and honest or when I was trying to sugar coat or “say the right words.”  Bad news delivered straight and honest is more effective than attempting to soften the news.  I am, and have been for a long time, a believer in authenticity as a leadership style.    

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  2. I too hope that the President and the First Lady, as well as the two Senators and others who work in and around the President who have tested positive, only experience a mild version of COVID and recover soon.  The country needs them to recover.

    It would be easy to take a potshot at the President in this era of partisan politics.  But politics aside, we have to remember that the the President has significant responsibilities to the defense of this nation and its well being, and we need a healthy Leader.   It makes me think of the line in the Scout Oath, “to do my duty to God and my Country.”   Maybe this will be reduce the bitterness of politics today and the focus can be on all our leaders duties to Return to working together to protect our citizens and focus on implementing the safety protocols to reduce the spread of COVID.  If a person as protected as the President can get it, we all can.  

    wash your hands, avoid large groups, maximize meetings outside rather than indoors, social distance, wear a mask, keep yourself physically strong so you can do your duty.   


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  3. 2 hours ago, David CO said:

    A lot of us are playing it pretty loose with the six month requirement during the epidemic and shutdown.  What does it mean to be active during a shutdown?  I don't know.  This is new territory for all of us.  

    I wouldn't complain about a SM who isn't doing conferences during a shutdown.  Particularly if the SM has underlying health conditions that would make him a high risk for coronavirus.  

    We have been very successful conducting SM conferences and BoR using zoom and other platforms.   While not perfect, These events are not required to be conducted in person.   We can still provide an outlet to Scouts who are motivated or looking for an activity during the period.   Our experience has been positive, from the scouts and their parents. 

  4. 17 minutes ago, David CO said:

    I wish this wasn't a scout related subject.  I wish BSA had not publicly supported BLM.  But it did.  

    This thread gets no where.  BSA has explained its position “We wholeheartedly mean exactly what we said – that we support Black families and Black communities and that Black Lives Matter. This is not a political issue or an endorsement of an organization; it is a human rights issue and one we all have a duty to address. We stand with efforts to address racism and injustice and to promote equality and inclusion.”  but then this thread devolves into a political discussion, not at all addressing racism and what the words and intent of BSA are.

    i come here to get away from the constant agreements from one side or the other that are a waste of time.  I have given up trying to have a conversation on this thread.  I stopped coming to the site for some time because this was all anyone posted on.   I recently came back, but see nothing has changed.   

    if I am going to spend time online for fun, it is worth my time figure how to support my son’s troop during COVID.  




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  5. I think Bryan does a fine job explains the BSA position:  “We wholeheartedly mean exactly what we said – that we support Black families and Black communities and that Black Lives Matter. This is not a political issue or an endorsement of an organization; it is a human rights issue and one we all have a duty to address. We stand with efforts to address racism and injustice and to promote equality and inclusion.”


    he is talking about human rights, equality, and inclusion.   Why would anyone have a problem with that?   

    is BLM perfect- no. Are riots ok - no. Is instigating or fomenting violence by left or right wing organizations ok- no.  Is racial inequality on - no.  

  6. 13 minutes ago, TAHAWK said:

    I do not understand that U.S intelligence did officially conclude there was impact.  Which is why I did not say they did.


    To believe that they did not attempt to access effect seems is to suggest that they are incompetent.


    We are more than Scouters here.  We are more than BSA Scouting devotees here.  As Americans, we should be interested in whether any foreign nation is impacting our political processes.

    Correct, we should be very interested in a foreign (Russia, China) power is. trying to impact our country.  And they are not stopping at the 2016 election, they are trying on this election, did on the 2018 election, and will continue to try to divide this country.  They have done it in other counties, most notably France.

    The intent of my post on this was to point out that what you read is not only biased by our media, but but external influences who are trying to further divide this nation. 

  7. 1 hour ago, walk in the woods said:

    Sorry @Navybone but you dismissed one series of reports based on bias.  When shown a different report from a mainstream media outlet you deflect to Russians?  That's laughable but typical.  Beyond that, anyone who has actually picked up a copy of the SunTimes in the last 10 years knows exactly where their politics lie.

    I can see how you might think that had I made a reference to the previous post, but I did not.  

    my post was about Russian (and Chinese) efforts to divide the American populous as a whole.  But you obviously do not agree with that as a real threat.   , right.  Us intel community is clueless?  Your too smart to fall for it?  

  8. When you are looking at reporting on such issues as protest and BLM, I would ask that you do keep a sharp eye on what is being reported.  This is a great article by NYT on Russian disinformation and an attempt to widen the gulf btwn the political parties.  We have issues in this country, lets not help Russia (or Chinese) attempts to bring us down from within.  Question the reporting, even if it is confirming your own bias. 

    About three years ago, when it was BLM versus Blue lives matter in the press all the time, Twitter was able to track the post made by russian trolls and how they would insert them selves into a conversation with a centrist point of view, and then pull it wider to the polar extremes. 



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  9. 6 hours ago, TAHAWK said:

    August 10, 2020

    Black Lives Matter holds rally in Chicago to support those arrested after looting, unrest

    “That is reparations,” a BLM organizer said. “Anything they wanted to take, they can take it because these businesses have insurance"

    Black Lives Matter Chicago issued a statement obtained by the Chicago Sun-Times that read, “The mayor clearly has not learned anything since May, and she would be wise to understand that the people will keep rising up until the [Chicago Police Department] is abolished and our Black communities are fully invested in,” the group said in a statement.

    Interesting - I read the actual Sun-Times article, and it attributes the quote to Ariel Atkins, 29, who is not identified as a BLM organizer   Where it is attributed to a BLM organizer is, The Sun, the Washington Times, the NY Post  which are all "strongly biased toward conservative causes" based on Media Bias/Fact Check. 

    And she obviously does not understand how reality works and is a fantasy land about how reparations work. 

  10. 28 minutes ago, walk in the woods said:

    Sadly most Americans are too blinded by party fielty to understand the fight of our lives isn't right vs left, it's the individual vs the State.


    But carry on.

    But if BLM or PP were accused of the same crimes, it would be ok to go after them.  Sorry, but The NRA puts itself out there as defending our most valued right in the the second amendment.  But that is wrong, the most valued right is the first amendment, which BLM and PP both try to protect.  

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  11. 34 minutes ago, thrifty said:

    just thinking about reenactments a few days ago.  I love history, enjoyed going to reenactments and historical sites as a child and it was usually cheap for my poor mother.  I've taken my family to several.  I've never owned a confederate flag but I wonder how any event like this can survive in a society that has become intolerant of just about everything.  The gray army gets no insignia?  But then people are still imitating traitors and the wrong side.  Blue army vs blue army?  I'm sure WWII reenactments will probably suffer because of this increased scrutiny too.  Conneaut OH has a very large D-Day reenactment that many troops volunteer at and everyone has a great time while learning.

    You do not think there is a difference in conducting a reenactment with some authenticity such as the confederate flag and someone displaying it at work or on their car/NASCAR/on a shirt?

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  12. 3 hours ago, Troop75Eagle said:

    You are a satisfactory apologist for BLM.  I’m sure they would welcome your analysis.  You speak meaningfully for a portion of their reality. For many many others, they and their ilk will become a social rabble eager to disrupt increasingly For disruptions sake.  There will be sighing, shaking of heads, and standing back indifferently as they do their thing as one more instance of an out of control portion of the population.  Not everyone of course, and I make no common cause and have no patience for alt right reactionaries either.  But the actions will increasingly reflect a lack of discipline and sloppy impulse control that garners the reaction, ‘well, what else is new. What did you expect?’ 

    One way to look at the current unrest by blacks in this county is to think that if a majority of this group, which makes 13% of our nation, is disenfranchised due to how they are being treated, then maybe this is worth trying to understand, looking at how to solve some of the racism they are encountering, if I can. 
    There is also the option of thinking this is not my problem, or it’s not that bad, or even to outright dismiss them and accuse them of being trouble makers.  Who are “they”to make a fuss. These people are exceptionally narrow minded and are absolutely part of the problem.   It is you.  You accuse me of being an apologist. No, I have decided that enough is enough and there is a valid point of discussion.  I do this not because it is easy, but because part of this country’s population is hurting.   It is not an comfortable position for me to take.     What is more comfortable is to bury my head in the sand, deny any issues, mark it up to rabble rousers and anarchists.  Easier to just rely on right wing media and follow however that portray it.  My failure is believing that just because people on this site are part of scouts, that they live or espouse any of the aspects of what scouting teaches our youth.  


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  13. 1 hour ago, Troop75Eagle said:

    But what comes with this particular group, it’s allies among anarchists and politically correct culture certainly is at issue. People will demand change without useful or reasonable  suggestions.

    There is debate on the actual “alliance” with anarchist.  There are elements on the extreme left AND right who are using the protest as an opportunity to fan the flames and creat riots.  BLM has a responsibility to try to distance themselves for sure and not get “co-mingled” with these groups.  But again,  BLM protest does not equal riots and violence.   

    but to your original post that I responded to, BLM  not advocating turning over the government.  And to this point, BLMmis not advocating riots and violence, and destruction all over the country.  

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  14. 1 hour ago, Troop75Eagle said:

    Indeed, That is far beyond just the trait of expressed racism.  That suggests that the whole system from inception is so flawed (and anti black) that it has to be destroyed and rebuilt with them in mind in whatever self image they have.

    Where are you seeing BLM advocating replacing our system over government?  I just  looked all through their site and do not see anything about a revolution or changing any of the principle documents of government.  Do they think that there is a significant racism issue in this country, yes.  But I do not see them pushing for a new constitution, maybe just ensuring they get the rights that the constitution affords them.  You cannot legislate away racism.  

  15. 41 minutes ago, yknot said:

    Obliterating artwork and history set in stone is not going to accomplish any of the human aims we want. All it's going to do is erase a piece a of history. Also, you would be erasing a monument to a different kind of slave. All three men are mounted on horses who mutely served their masters through no wish of their own. Almost all of humanity of every color, ethnicity and race has only survived because they were able to enslave the horse. The only monuments that exist to these poor beasts are military ones like this one at Stone Mountain. Traveler, Little Sorrel and Black Jack are the names of the horses depicted on Stone Mountain.  Traveler, despite the side he served on, is one of the most famous war horses of all time, often listed in the same breath with Bucephalas, the beloved war mount of Alexander the Great, Napoleon's Marengo, and the Duke of Wellington's Copenhagen. Little Sorrel, Stonewall Jackson's war horse, was stolen from Union troops and made to serve the Confederacy through no equine choice of his own and yet people want to erase him.

    I did not realize Stone Mountain was a tribute to horses.  Being funded by the KKK and all.  Opening the anniversary of Lincoln’s Assassination.   Maybe should have just left the people off of it.  Anywhere I can read more about Stone Mountain as a tribute to horses.  The sites webpage says nothing about this.  

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  16. 48 minutes ago, David CO said:

    Now look who is engaging in historical revisionism.  

    I am only quoting the cession documents presented to make the case of the states who joined the Confederacy.  If that is historical revisionism, what document from the time should if use.  I mean, they were written by the states themselves.  You don’t have to believe me, You find a copy here:  https://www.battlefields.org/learn/primary-sources/declaration-causes-seceding-states

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  17. 23 minutes ago, Troop75Eagle said:

    I believe destroying monuments is absurd on its face.  The Taliban destroyed them because it was offensive to them. The idea is that it was offensive to their sensibilities.  The fact it was idolatry in Islam is irrelevant. It was just as important to them as a sensibility as others find Stone Mountain offensive or Mount Rushmore.  

    vultural and artistic achievements have been Swept away and destroyed because of cultural relativism and people in one era.  They deny the future the concrete understanding and review of what was done. Destroying culture and art because it offends people is outrageous.  If one wants to do that, then every neonazi is fully justified in defacing everything they don’t like.  


    I do not agree with the taliban on anything.  Which is why I spent many years hunting and killing them.  

    but for this, You are You saying you are ok with Stone Mountain? What it represents, what it honors?  

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  18. 14 minutes ago, David CO said:

     The Confederacy had many reasons for leaving the Union.  Slavery was one of them.  Do you disparage the rest of the organization and their goals for that?  Sometimes one is enough.

    No, slavery was the reason they left.  Read each states declaration on why they left.  In each, the reason is slavery.  The efforts in the early 1900’s of the LOst cause or states right was nothing more than way for the south to convince itself that it was not slavery.  But their founding documents betray that reality.  For the 5 initial states in why they left the union (from their words)

    georgia:  third line - they have endeavored  to weaken out security, to disturb out domestic peace and tranquillity....with reference to that property 

    mississippi: second line.  Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery - the greatest material interest of the world.

    s. Carolina: first line...but in deference to to the opinions and wishes of other slaveholding states

    texas: takes some time, but third paragraph: she was received as a commonwealth holding, maintaining and protecting the institution known as negro slavery — the servitude of of the African to the white race within her limits....

    virginia: last line for the first paragraph:   Not only to the injury of the people, of Virginia, but to the oppression of the southern slave holding states.  

    I am see past many things, but slavery of another human based on the color of there skin.  No, I cannot see past that.  Who can?


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  19. 4 minutes ago, Troop75Eagle said:


    there is no limit to hurt feelings and desire to eliminate symbols placed in a public forum.  Native Americans despise Mt Rushmore and want it gone, the protestors apparently don’t want symbols of anyone having anything to do with slavery around as the destruction of Jefferson and Washington clearly illustrated.  Stone Mountain is one of the biggest monuments in earth but protestors would just assume blow it up.  

    Like it or not, this is cultural purging and a point when one group attempts to erase public display of history in a whirlwind of action riding high on emotion. Frankly, they could take a page from the Taliban playbook.  They blew up ancient Buddhist behemoths because it was offensive to Islam.  The various churches over time have destroyed or marred art because it was offensive to sensibilities,  

    Stone Mountain is literally the largest monument on earth dedicated to honoring the men who betrayed their country to enslave an entire race due to their skin.  The taliban blew up statues because Islam considers any representation of the human as offensive.  Both of these instances illustrate how narrow the thinking of a culture or people can be.   Are you in agreement that Stone Mountain should be preserved because is it something the US wants to celebrate or honor.   That the South’s effort to break away from the United States over the desire to preserve slavery is something we want to solemnize, and that is it is something we want our children to commemorate and recognize in anything other than repudiation of racism? 

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  20. 10 minutes ago, walk in the woods said:

    The first amendment prevents the government from stopping peaceable assembly and redress of grievances.  Rioting and looting are prominently absent.  People keep saying I should listen.  Oh I'm listening all right and hearing just fine.  BLM the organization explicitly calls for the destruction of the family (how's that worked out for the black community over the last 50 years?), and one of their organizers has explicitly stated they have a Marxist ideology.  There's no interest in conversation or dialog from BLM the organization.  And beyond the Confederates statues my own Senator Duckworth has said she'd be open to listening to arguments to take down memorials to Geo. Washington.  There have been calls to take down the Jefferson Memorial.  Sorry, cultural Marxism is real and must be actively opposed.  BLM will set civil rights back 70 years.

    There are 17 different items BLM is supporting In their mission.  You have identified one and disparage the rest of the organization and their goals for that?  And it does NOT call for the destruction of the family, rather it calls for recognition that extended families and villages have a significant pace in today’s society.  Do we not want equality under law for all Americans, regardless of race?  Do we not understand that a significant portion of our population is disenfranchised and there is room and opportunity to heal the Division that occurs.  

    And for Duckworth, her comments are for being willing to having a dialogue.  Do we not want open discussion and debate?  Are we so closed minded?  Cultural Marxism is a new-con wet- dream to encourage right wing conservative government, not an engaged government willing to talk to the people, and understand their concerns. 

    what are you listening to?  

  21. 18 minutes ago, David CO said:

    Tell that to all of the liberal mayors and city councils who allow the looting and rioting, the blocking of highways, the destruction of public property, and the threats against honest law abiding citizens.  These liberal politicians don't seem to be able to differentiate between criminal behavior and peaceful protests. 

    No, the politicians get it, they understand.  But maybe they are trying to approach this more as an enagagement to address the underlying conditions ina an effort to stop more protest, looting, etc.  but again, protesting is not the same as looting and rioting.  And when peaceful protestors are treated like looters or rioter like some heavy handed politicians have done, then nothing moves forward, nothing changes, and we are stuck in the death spiral of ineffectiveness.  And simp,Ed protesting is seen as the same as looting or rioting.  

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