Chris1

Absolutely I'd argue that. But I don't think this is the place or time for that discussion

2 hours ago, Saltface said:

Maybe it's a case of No True Scotsman, but I honestly don't think there's a man alive that would think this a great idea, especially when all the resources for alternative ideas are right there at your fingertips. But a scout mom who still sees her Life Scout as a little Wolf Cub? Yeah, that's definitely an activity she would plan.

Congratulations. that is the most sexist remark I have heard all day

@cocomaxWOW I am sorry to hear how bad IOLS was for you. That is NOT at all how that course is supposed to be taught. It is nice to hear of a good GSUSA council that does good outdoor training. In my area we used to see a fair number of girl scout leaders taking BSA training, because the girl scout council didn't offer any. 

Great, now you have started a new fad of hernias. Very good point about increased internet use when researching something. I was about to make that same comment

13 hours ago, TMSM said:

. Lets be honest that a majority of scouters and scouts (boys) hate this idea of letting the girls in this part of scouting. All of us who have been around for a while see what has already started which is a change in the program and can't wait to get out and know that for the 10,000 girls we add we will have 100,000 unhappy boys.

Let's not claim that ALL scouters "who have been around for a while" are against it, insinuating that those who support it are new to the program and don't know better. I know of quite a number of people who have been in the program for 30, 40 or more years who support this. I also know some from that vintage who are against it. 

Between his 18th and 21st birthdays,  he can still be elected as a youth, by the youth in the troop, but he can not vote for himself. 

42 minutes ago, Jameson76 said:

My comment was on the messaging and the actual mismanagement and continued mishandling of the program changes messaging.  Likely, at this point, they are identical, never said they were not. 

There are issues with the tenure and tone of the program changes

• The original Oct 17 rollout specifically noted separate troops, then 30 - 60 days later linked troops was an option
• National rolls out updated YPT and sets a different standard for girls and leaders than boys in that if there are girls then there must be a female YPT leader.  No such gender specific requirement if there are boys at an activity
• Summer 2018 there are two specific handbooks denoted by gender

 

• Actually the linked troop option came out in February or March. It was done to allow sharing of resources and as a compromise between those that wanted fully coed troops and those that wanted things to not change. 
• The adult female requirement for units with female youth has been around for years, in the Venturing and Exploring programs. 
• The possibility of separate books for girls and boys was mentioned from the beginning. And this was done to keep those who hate the idea of the appearance of a coed program. 

Remember, Compromise is the art of making everyone equally unhappy. 😋

We got a sneak peek of the two books at the area conference earlier this month. The difference is the color of the cover, the pictures inside one has girls in the pictures one Boys in pictures, and pronouns are changed from he to she him to her Etc.

My understanding is that they had thought of doing a combined book however certain people complained that with both boys and girls in all photographs it appeared to be co-ed not Separated by gender. So we end up with two books.

Don't read anything more into having two books.

I think that most troops will do their best to accommodate scouts heading back to town on Saturday night, the parent may have to be the transport, but most troops won't have any issue with a scout missing Sunday. 

From what I have seen adults at the unit level are most likely to drop scouts, while those active at the district and council level are more likely to stay. I know of ONE district committee member who made clear he will leave 12/31/2019, while the other 7 or so have made it clear that they are staying. 

For scouts and parents who are used to scouting under the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints rules, they may be surprised that they have to pay for scouting, but there are also many advantages they will find. 

In the long run I think it will end up to be a great experience for Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints scouts in community troops. Different, but good. 

I am trying to follow the new policy on how to reference the church, and it seems overly cumbersome to me right now. Oh well

On 8/15/2018 at 2:32 PM, ham_solo said:

I denied one recently for similar circumstances as SM, for a scout who had not been camping since 2014, had not correctly finished 5 eagle merit badges, never served in a position as Life, etc.. but the parents submitted what looked more like a legal brief to Council/National than a request, and in their letter made it sound like all of us leaders were incompetent, etc.  And eventually after even the Council Eagle Committee who performed their investigation and reviewed it did not give their approval, still when they sent it with their non-recommendation to National, the Troop was still overruled by National, and so the Council gave him a board and approved his eagle anyway.  None of us in the Troop were involved in the board, we refused. 

Well ham_solo, From what you stated it sounds like he used the entire "Board of Review Under Disputed Circumstances" and Appeals process as it is designed and described in the Guide to Advancement. You may not like the result, but it sounds like they followed the rules in how to proceed. Yes, it is his right to send it to national when the council says no.  This was not wrong for them to do. 

Similar holds for other stories on this thread. Like having 5 people on a Board, the policy says for an appeal There has to be an odd number of votes, either 3 or 5. Normal BoR has 3 to 6.

From the later article it is clear that he knew about the 6 month requirements, knew he would call short due to his own choices and accepted that he likely would not win the appeal. He chose to do the project, knowing that he probably wouldn't get Eagle.

He also has accepted Nationals ruling, and only blames himself for falling short. I highly respect his maturity. 

Have you contacted your Council and asked for information on a wood badge course that does not run on Sunday?

Perhaps no one knows that this is a problem or not a significant one.

Check with the Lodge about their policy, but make sure you talk to someone who ACTUALLY knows the rules, not just a fanatic. There is a bunch of false information floating around.

Find out if the flap was only available to those who went, or to anyone as a way to promote NOAC or raise funds. If it was only for attendees then I would say no. If it was a fund raiser, or other (which you seem to indicate) then it might be ok. 

If it were an "earned" flap, our lodge has had a number over the years, then I would suggest not wearing it.  

In my Council we have to Wood badge courses each year one is Thursday through Saturday the other Friday through Sunday. Many IOLS courses or Friday Saturday While others are Saturday Sunday. Our last Council camporee there were religious services for Catholic Protestant and Jewish.

We have significant LDS. After the LDS church leave in 2020, We shall see if these offerings diminish. 

Thanks for the first hand info. Sounds like good changes overall.

The schedule in the gilwell cassette from your course listed the blue and gold banquet as evening on day one.

I have mixed feelings on the Outdoor Experience being limited to just five hours. Rather than 2 overnight. I can see the logistical advantage particularly for those do you use CPAP or have other needs. This no doubt allows more time to be trimmed from the schedule. I do like the use of nylt Youth.

Many will be sad to have the kudu horn and Axe and log go away. I like the ties to tradition and meanings behind them but they really are not crucial and may have gotten too much emphasis in some courses over the years.

I am not sad to have win all you can AKA Game of Life go away. Nor will I miss artificial stress events or extreme Critter rivalries

Thanks

But of the 6 days (Friday1, Saturday1, Sunday1, Fri2, Sat2, Sun2) which has been removed?? Or is it liked 2.5 days twice??

7 hours ago, C7Scouter said:

I'm staffing one of the pilot courses and getting ready for our final staff development weekend in a week.  What I can say is that, yes, changes have been made and they are certainly for the better.  Folks will notice updated material (think current management and leadership techniques) as well as a combining of material that may have seemed redundant to participants.  It indeed has been shortened if using the two weekend format, by one day.  As others have noted, certain parts of the course have been shuffled in hopes that the flow is better.

I believe I saw someone ask about the Patrol Project.  It has indeed been turned into the Patrol Leadership Quest.  This will actually happen within the course in hopes of eliminating a bunch of interim work.  We will see how this one goes.  I, personally liked the project and I suppose change is also good.

Lastly, Tools of the Trade is a new part of the course.  Think of a physical object that helps tie the various subjects together.  Things that can actually go in your tool box.  These are talked about in every presentation (each major presentation has one) and then recycled or rehashed at the very end ( I believe there are a dozen or so).

The whole point of the pilot courses is to provide feedback to National for additional adjustments and/ or changes prior to the adoption by all in 2020ish.  I can tell you that the syllabus is still living and breathing.  Most has been finalized, but it is still being tweaked.

Wish us luck!

Which Day is removed??? This might help us in a few areas. 

@C7Scouter please keep us posted on how things go and what other changes there are. And good luck. 

Just out of curiosity, where is your course? (council/state) and when will it be held????

Just now, RememberSchiff said:

I thought the same about the scout neckerchief - an international scout thing yet no longer required as part of the uniform here..

Hello it may not be required here. But BSA has moved to allow it without the field uniform, which matches International scouting better.

The Tartan neckerchief is not going anywhere. That is an International Wood badge thing oh, and is part of uniform.

11 hours ago, Jameson76 said:

As long as we are rooting out cultural appropriation in the BSA, will National and the Woodbadge Junta do away with kilts?  As someone who has Scottish background, maybe I'm offended....

National is already cracking down on kilts at Wood Badge, as they are not official uniform. I was able to wear my kilt on "Diversity Day" and a Santa hat on "Christmas in July". But staff really should be setting the example, so the kilt gets less use. 

@jjlash thanks. That is great information.

But just a quick glance I saw following 

• Blue and gold banquet moved from lunch to dinner on first day
•  listening to learn presentation moved from day 1 to day 2
• Some things are Philmont specific like touring different areas. So that may change or the actual course
• Looks like outdoor Experience may be reduced. They were at Rocky Mountain Scout camp on day 4 but looks like that was the only time.
• I am not sure if the actual course will be 5 or 6 days. The Florida sea Base course appears to have been 6 days. It is possible that Philmont shortened theirs to 5 days due to Easter.

As for having to retake Wood Badge, everything I have heard indicates NO.  The course is an update, not a significant reworking like WB21

@jjlash thanks. That is great information.

But just a quick glance I saw following 

• Blue and gold banquet moved from lunch to dinner on first day
•  listening to learn presentation moved from day 1 to day 2
• Some things are Philmont specific like touring different areas. So that may change or the actual course
• Looks like outdoor Experience may be reduced. They were at Rocky Mountain Scout camp on day 4 but looks like that was the only time.

Wood badge is being updated with pilot courses this year and next year to be fully implemented in 2020 or so.

Who has information about what is being changed? So far my information states that the following are changing.

• The game "Win all you can" aka "the Game of Life" is going away
• The movie October Sky is also being replaced. Does anyone no what movie will replace it?
•  

What do other people know?

The new colors will only come out once the supply of current ones is sold, so I would guess next year, at the earliest, before we see them.