Chris1

1 hour ago, WAKWIB said:

This is what our council is doing.
https://www.hoac-bsa.org/scouts-bsa-all-girl-camping-session-at-bartle-2018-10-05
For context, this will take place for 1 session out of the 5 we have on the reservation. The camp used is 1 of 3 camps on the reservation. They are in relative close proximity to each other. They will share some program areas such as lakefront, shotgun range, climbing tower and COPE course...and probably a couple that aren't coming to mind.
So, it's separated, but not so much....

So if I read that right, only one of the two properties will allow girls at all. And they get segregated 21 camp on One session. So that's 14 out of 15 for all boys and can only go to 1 camp on the last session which in my experience is the least desirable. The last session being mid-july will be the hottest particularly in Missouri, and the staff often is tired worn out and not nearly as enthusiastic as in earlier weeks.

And based on my understanding of requirements for Mic-o-say no girl will be eligible this year and won't be able to become full members for another couple of years. Presuming my understanding is accurate, if I were involved in a girl Troop I would feel slighted. But maybe that's just me.

They want $17 for those socks. And I thought the $8 or the standard uniform socks was way overpriced. I guess if I want that vintage look I will just have to use my vintage socks

But do they count as official uniform socks with the Centennial uniform?

 What do you mean grandparents? I remember those socks fondly and I'm only 40. The socks that mine Scouts grandfather or we're green used garters and had red or green tabs. 

A 16 year old boy who just joined knew how much time he had and if he could or could not earn Eagle in that time. It would be his choice and I don't think more than a few in the country, if any at all.

The real point is that National it's allowing those who were not in the program before mostly because they were not allowed, to have 24 months to earn eagle. It is simply giving them the opportunity.

There will always be those who just miss a deadline or cutoff date. In my crew there are two girls best friends that do everything together, one turns 18 in January the other mid February. So one has the opportunity to go for the extension and her Eagle while the other does not. I also know twin Eagle Scouts that missed out on getting Palms because of when their Eagle boards were even though they had plenty of merit badges but did not qualify for the retroactive Palms because they turned 18 just a couple of weeks before August 1st 2017

1 hour ago, RememberSchiff said:

Assuming no disabilities,  I would hope with an extension, we could expect more work (okay, I'll say it - additional requirements) from a 19-20yr old adult? Eagle candidate.  

Pioneering MB?  Serve as an adult leader? 

My $0.02

I don't see a reason to add requirements. As it is National essentially added the time requirement of "24 months from joining to Eagle"  I think that is enough added work for an 18-19 year old. 

https://www.outsideonline.com/2196356/why-girl-wants-become-boy-scout of June 28,2017 lists her age as 16. 

So if the articles are correct it seems she will turn 18 in May or June of 2019.

In this article.    https://patch.com/new-york/southampton/long-island-girl-continues-quest-join-boy-scouts-national-organization-women.  She is said to be 15 on May 4, 2017 that would make her still 17 on May 4,2019 therefore still 17 on February 1,2019. 

24 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Looks like Sydney Ireland will be able to get Eagle after all.

 

That was exactly what I was thinking

21 minutes ago, walk in the woods said:

Ok.  So a girl joins on Feb 1 and turns 18 on Feb 2, 2019.  Same question.

She will need to file her request for extension by March 3rd, 2019. If approved she will have until February 2, 2021 to complete the Requirements. Although the Eagle BoR could be after that. 

When sewing by machine I get as close as I can in color. If I am hand sewing I usually stitch though the murrowed edge of the patch, so the thread does not show, and therefore I will use whatever color I have handy. 

I need to disagree on one main point. Training is important to let people know the RIGHT way to do things, and the rules and policies we must follow. How many time have you seen Scouters breaking advancement policy on Boards of review or SM Conferences, or adding requirements etc, because they thought it was ok, because they NEVER GOT TRAINED?  How many "experienced" scouters support singing for lost items because they remember it when they were scouts? I know many experienced scouters with lots of credentials who still defy policy and don't get things right.  

Training is important. 

One hitch with getting basic startup and nothing else, is once things run fairly smoothly they think "every thing is working fine. I don't need to take any of that training."

On 9/21/2018 at 9:19 AM, an_old_DC said:

Units are autonomous and can do what they want: entire packs can go canoeing, unrelated girls and girl siblings can completely mix with boy dens for all activities and even "unofficially" earn advancement, etc. Troops can make up their own advancement policies including when or if a Scout can have a conference with his SM, BORs retesting Scouts and then denying advancement, having SM, CC and other adults' daughters tagalong on camping trips and "unofficially" earn advancement. The list goes on and on.

The sad thing about this one is how many long-time "trained" Scoutmasters and units seem to think this as well. And I am not talking about uninformed scouters, rather wood badge course directors, National Jamboree contingent scoutmasters, NYLT scoutmasters, Etc.

They feel they are above the law. 

10 hours ago, Eagledad said:

The discussion isn't about the youth, it's about adults contributing to the harm of the youth by accepting their transgender as normal. 

So do you think rejecting a youth is the way to "not cause harm to the Youth"?  

I strive to treat everyone I encounter and all youth I work with, with dignity, caring and respect without judgement. No matter who or what they are, and no matter what they are going through. No matter what choices or mistakes they may have made.  I want all youth to have a trusted adult mentor to which they can turn for support and guidance, when they are confused or feel they can't talk to anyone else. 

I don't see the relevance of that article to my understanding of BSA policy related to transgender youth. BSA only goes as far as accepting the gender written on the application. BSA makes no suggestions on what types of therapy  to use, nor any timeline for transition , nor if any particular approach is good, bad, or indifferent.  

From reading the article I can understand your emotion regarding the topic, and the way the AAP guidance is phrased. 

And maybe it is just me, but I don't see the strong connection to BSA. You of course are free to see it differently than I do. If BSA made such statements and pushed for any child questioning who they are to get gender reassignment surgery ASAP, then I would think they had gone too far. 

What is her reasoning on why he should not go through ordeal? I can't think of any valid reason, but would love to hear her thoughts

What reason does she give for needing to know who is attending and seeing them first? 

I can imagine reasonable reasons like to ask you to bring back specific information or for carpooling reasons. Of course I can also imagine plenty of reasons that have more to do with control. 

1 hour ago, qwazse said:

Things, when decided by a committee, move at a glacial pace. Your expectation that you would get a reply via Email within four days is unrealistic. Unless it's my brothers wanting to identify a snake, I take at least a week to reply to any given letter.

From my perspective, this decision shouldn't involve the CC at all. The SM/ASMs should have a huddle and decide how to deliver the promise of scouting through the advancement method. The best the CC can do is run interference, encourage that huddle and support the leaders in whatever decision they make.

That said, the CC should have simply told you that he was gathering facts and putting it on the agenda for the next committee meeting.

Well... That's one opinion. The Scoutmaster is in charge of the program, and the committee is in charge of the policy and the business end of troop operations. So in a case where there is a policy that does not conform to BSA advancement policy it is the place of the CC to act.

Personally I would never take a week to get back to someone on this type of topic, unless I was in a coma or at a camp with no signal. It may just be "I am looking in to this" or "I will talk to the SM on this matter"  but it will be something. So we just have different communication styles.  

7 minutes ago, Hawkwin said:

@an_old_DC Thanks again. I am going to wait and see what response I get from the district and I also plan to bring this up at the committee meeting next week if it is not resolved by then. As far as I know, the rest of the committee is unaware of this issue and they might have a different opinion after it has been shared. I am aware of at least three advocates on the committee that would very likely support a change to this unwritten rule (their scouts will be impacted too and my son is in their patrol). I assume these things are voted on but I have no idea.

If you do have enough support on the committee you could win the battle and have this policy eliminated. From my experience however even if the committee sites with you scoutmaster is likely to make things difficult for your son and family. Maybe he won't but I would suggest continuing to look at other troops.

Adults that Run troops as their personal fiefdom do not like it when lowly peasants win. And they tend to lash out with whatever influenced they have.

Hawkins, I have been in a situation similar to this and unfortunately I suggest you look for a new unit. You are right he is wrong yet the council or District are not often very effective in dealing with this type of matter.

A lesson that I learned the hard way is just because you're right does not mean that you will win. I know a number of troops. Blakely violate advancement policies and have gotten away with it for decades. Some of the scoutmasters from these units are extremely high in the council and continue to gain influence.

This is not to say that your battle was not worth it. For I feel any battle in the interest of the youth is worth it. The argument will cause others to reevaluate the policy and within a few years thanks will have changed. Unfortunately it is not really possible for you to stay around during that change

This can be a lesson to your son and others standing up for what is right when backing down for being quiet would be the safe and Easy Choice.

Good luck to you and your family

It may be time to get your District Commissioner and/or Council Advancement Committee. 

I suggest he talk to the SPL and perhaps you may want to talk to PA or SM if  this is discouraging your son. 

Even if they are focusing on Tenderfoot requirements someone has to cook. So I see no reason why they wouldn't jump on the chance for someone to cover that duty. 

There IS far more to scouting than advancement. But if he looses his enthusiasm and drive then the troop has failed him. 

We have sessions like that at roundtables and universities of Scouting here. Of course I am the one who decides what classes are taught. 

7 hours ago, gblotter said:

... Family Scouting is not about offering a traditional Scouting program to girls.

I know quite a number of girls who will be ticked off if they don't get the same patrol-method, traditional program the boys get.

2 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

I’m curious to learn how “adult led and youth led” tie in with “working together across generations“?

Barry

Commonly confused. It says "adult led and youth run" . Many people use "youth led" and "Youth run" interchangeably, but there is a specific meaning in this context. It means that the adults give needed leadership, mentor the youth, and take responsibility for ensuring things are safe, meet objectives and follow laws and policies. While the youth execute the program. 

I'm sure we could have a whole OTHER thread where people strongly disagree on the topic of what "youth led/run" means and how much involvement adults should have. 

Gosh, I thought we were talking about the September October issue of scouting magazine.