Chris1

Your ward must be more successful than mine. Around here the young mens program almost inevitably devolves into pickup basketball every Tuesday evening. 

The above answers are correct. There are also LDS boys who belong to non LDS units.  This seems to be an overlooked aspect. Also the belief that all LDS Youth are highly active in programs it is incorrect. This varies. And the belief that call LDS Youth and adults will completely abandoned scouting in favor of the new program is as ludicrous has thinking that they would all stay with BSA. Some youth will do both some will choose one over the other some will choose neither.

There is almost no information out about what program will look like. So we will have to see if it offers leadership and character development  and outdoor skills. I have my doubts.

BUDDY SYSTEM: I found it interesting that the following was removed "The buddy system should be used at all times. The buddy system is a safety measure for all Scouting activities. Buddies should know and be comfortable with each other. Self-selection with no more than two years age or significant differences in maturity should be strongly encouraged. When necessary, a buddy team may consist of three Scouts. No youth should be forced into or made to feel uncomfortable by a buddy assignment."  and replaced with "The buddy system should be used. " .  It removes "self-selection"  age gap and "forced buddy assignments." 

So now we can force an 11 year old together with a 17 year old who he does not know, or even one he is terrified of. Wow, I'm sure that's going to work out just fine. <<please note my extreme sarcasm>>. 

@The Latin Scot I am glad to hear it. I had a feeling that it might be something like that. Thank you for not taking my comments negatively as I made them only to make prompt introspection. I now know that you had already done that. 

I am happy to call you my brother, and I hope you find the Brotherhood ceremony meaningful. Listen to all that is said, and I think you will find many nice connections to LDS teachings. 

I am sure to will continue to be a fine example of the brotherhood of cheerful service well beyond December 31st 2019. 

Congratulations, and thanks for all you do. From what I gather you are in your 20s or so, right? If that is accurate it will have some advantages and disadvantages. And since I don't know your exact job description and responsibilities, I will do my best to give some advice that may be helpful, but could be irrelevant.

1) If you are in your 20s or so, you will likely have an easier time relating to the Youth and staffers. As "CIT Champion" this will probably be a big advantage. The down side is SOME of the adults, particularly older ones, may see you as a kid. Just continue to be professional and treat them with respect. Some will come around, and others never will, so don't sweat it.

2) I am guessing that as CIT Champion part of your job is to mentor and watch out for the CITs. Depending on the culture of the camp that may be easy or difficult. Some camps treat their CITs with the same respect as all other staff members, and some camps have a reputation for hazing and treating them as second class citizens. My suggestion is to start out by making it clear that you are a friend to ALL staffers, and if they have an issue you are there to listen and help. MAKE SURE YOU ALWAYS FOLLOW YOUTH PROTECTION POLICY. If there are any hazing or mistreatment issues take it to the camp director. With any luck you won't have to face that type of thing.

Secondly, when it comes to CITs, remember that they are 14 and 15 year old youth, so may be less mature, or make silly choices. Giving expectations early, and praising their successes can go a long way to a smooth summer. Take note when they do something well, and just mention it later that day. This does a couple of things for you. It gives them positive feedback to encourage them, it shows that you care and notice them, and it also makes them aware that they are being watched which encourages them to make better choices and live up to the scout oath and law. 

On 5/27/2018 at 11:20 PM, The Latin Scot said:

Well, I will be receiving my Brotherhood Honor this weekend. Looks like I will be getting it just in time too, before leaving Scouting. Just in time indeed. 

You may want to review what sealing your membership in the brotherhood means. The following is from the OA on brotherhood

"4) Plan for Service in your Lodge 
A) Retain your registration in your Lodge and keep your dues paid. 
• Be aware that acceptance of Brotherhood Membership involves a pledge of service to 
the Lodge. 
• Develop a concrete idea of how you plan to fulfill this pledge."

Becoming a Brotherhood member is about making a pledge of service to you unit, lodge, OA, and scouting.  Now there are plenty of people who get their brotherhood sash and disappear. And I will not presume that you will not make a difference in the next 18 months. Just something on which to reflect. 

I am all in favor of giving girls the opportunities in Scouting and think it is long overdue. I am excited that Ventures and Sea Scouts will be joining us in the Order of the Arrow, again long overdue. 

I have been continuously in Scouting since I was first allowed as a Wolf.

I am an Eagle Scout, OA vigil, worked on summer camp staff for 5 years as a youth working from CIT up to Director of Program, then Assistant Ranger. I have been on staff for local high adventure programs since 17 years old. I have been Asst Den Leader, ASM, ADC, Roundtable Commissioner, ADC for Roundtable, District training staff in 2 districts, commissioner training staff, instructor at college of Commissioner Science.  <<taking a deep breath>>

I am a Wood Badge Bear, I am the 2018-2019... University of Scouting Dean of Scout training, NYLT ASM since 2017, attending NYLT Course Director's Conference in 2017, started "Junior Leader Roundtable" for my district at 13 or 14, and ran it until I left for college. As an adult I revived the idea as "Youth Leadership Roundtable" in my new district, while helping with OA chapter and staffing Lodge events. I am a unit trainer and committee member for 4 LDS units, ASM for my son's troop(non-LDS).  And I am probably leaving some stuff out.

As an aside, I come from a scouting family. Both of my parents and my brother(Eagle Scout) are all registered scouters since he joined the pilot Tiger Cub program. All are also vigil honor. Both parents are Wood Badgers, have been District and Council trainers, both Chapter Advisors, both received Silver Beaver and District Award of Merit. Both District Committee, both Eagle advisors....  And they all think the change are great, though Dad does not see the purpose in forcing the girls into a separate troop. And that does not even get into my wife and her parents. (this post is long enough as it is)

Oh, I left out I have my Masters in Commissioner Science and working on my thesis for my doctorate. I knew there was at least one thing I forgot.  ..... Oh and District committee. 

I was just thinking from a scientific and statistical analysis standpoint it would be good to have information from both sides.

I get the feeling that many people feel the majority of scouters are on THEIR side, and those that disagree are a "crazy fringe group"  .  

So if we all give our opinion along with our background maybe we will see a device along age, or when they started as a scouter, or geography, or district/council involvement, or involvement is specific programs, or if commissioners tend to feel one way, while those who have attended jamboree feel another, or if training staff tend to differ from those who have attended 2 or more national high adventure bases.  Etc 

Let us all TRY to stay respectful, and accept the right of others to have a DIFFERENT opinion. 

I think it would also be interesting to have the same background on those who disapprove of these changes

On 6/17/2017 at 3:18 PM, TAHAWK said:

We were using the Junior Leader Orientation Workshop syllabus with the now heretical 11 Leadership Skills.  "Welcome to Scouting's toughest job."

The ideas of the 11 Leadership Skills still exist in the NYLT syllabus, it is worded and presented differently. And I will admit that it is not as in-depth in some areas but expands others. I still use the 11 Leadership Skills as supplemental material. 

Back on the original topic: My council has 7 NYLT troops this year, 2 of the SPLs are female.  We usually have 1 or 2 each year for At least the last 5 years or so. It may help that some of the first were daughters of NYLT Scoutmasters. That tends to help break the glass ceiling. On the other hand we have never had a female SM for NYLT.

Anyway, congratulations on your daughters accomplishment.

3 minutes ago, John-in-KC said:

Bryan should have reminded them no secret societies...

Said by a guy from the land of Mic O Say

2 minutes ago, TAHAWK said:

Turns out they meant 72 hours of any given "activity."  

Thanks. That has been a hot debate among training staff around here. 

Realistically I think the professional has been hearing a lot of "now that BSA allows _____, I am leaving" in the past few years and more recently. And he was pointing out that (at least to him) you sounded like another one. And IF you will only support the program so long as ___ does not change, then that is a condition. 

Your past commitment is clear, but I think the comment was about FUTURE commitment to the program.   Honestly we all have some "condition" when we will no longer be involved or support almost any organization. Some people have the condition of "so long as I am still breathing I will be a scouter" Some have other conditions. 

I would suggest you contemplate It (which you are doing by answering this thread) and then put the comment behind you.

18 minutes ago, Saltface said:

Could this also possibly be the reason a scouter hears nothing for several months after volunteering to teach at University of Scouting, then receives a frantic last-minute email asking them to teach a different class on which they are not an authority? Or are they not welcome under any conditions?

Asking for a friend.

Speaking as a Dean for UofS in my council, I suspect it has NOTHING to do with any "naughty list" and most likely come from trying to run a large event. 

2 hours ago, cchoat said:

"Win all you can" is dropped in the new "Wood Badge" syllabus currently being field tested. 

I think that is good news.  After the game when I did WB, I questioned several of the senior staff about the negative impact on morale and camaraderie. I also voiced the opinion that it was not scout-like for the staff to act in that manner, or treat participants that way. 

I also stated that it lessened my trust and impression of those involved. And I did not get upset during the game at all, in part because I am not a competitive person and also because I am math nerd and I figured out that it was a zero-sum game and the game theory behind It. 

I am glad to hear it is being reviewed. 

7 hours ago, an_old_DC said:

This is incredibly disappointing. 

Plus the whole backdoor approach to allowing previous years of experience and camping to retroactively count rubs salt in the wound.

Why shouldn't their previous camping under the Boy Scout program count? I think this is long overdue and Counting camping in the past 2 years for venture is only logical.

A (mostly) level and fair playing field

11 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Once upon a time Boy Scouter Wood Badge DID focus on outdoor skills as well as program and leadership as opposed to management. It was program specific and was the end all be all training course....

There is no such thing as the "end all be all training course" in Scouting. The older course was good, but just had a DIFFERENT focus. Neither was perfect. 

They are currently revamping wood batch. So you may just get your wish but I kind of doubt it. Both outdoor skills and management and mentoring skills are required to run a good program.

Does would match put too much focus on one and not enough focus on the other? Maybe. That's up to personal opinion. But I'm not sure that a scoutmaster who knows every not every plant every animal and 38 ways to cook cactus but lacks the ability to Mentor Youth or understand team development or how to teach and interact with youth is up any more benefit to the scouts themselves.

Wood badge is now about leadership management team development whether you like it or not. I think it is a good course so long as you're not expecting the Scout craft course. Most of the Scout crafts has been moved to introduction to outdoor leadership skills. Is there enough time in that course to cover everything? No. Should BSA introduce a intense scoutcraft course for adults? Maybe. Will enough adults take it? I have my doubts considering we can't get them i o l s for 24 hours when it is basic training.

For more Scouts skill courses I would suggest requesting them at your local University of scouting. Most councils have that once a year, a day-long training for adults.

6 hours ago, FireStone said:

I personally have no issue with Wood Badge, the program, or the participants generally. My comment was more to do with specific people who focus on Wood Badge and similar adult recognition to the point where it seems be prioritized over youth elements of the program, and how that runs counter to my own views on Scouting.  

There we agree. 

9 hours ago, gblotter said:

When contemplating a non-LDS troop, there is some doubt/concern over respect for our beliefs (avoiding Sunday camping, etc)

I am sorry to hear about the negative Jamboree experience. I think one has to just look around and be open with the leadership of perspective troops, and find one that has values and standards that you can accept and support.  I am sure some units won't be willing to accommodate but others will. Try to meet them half way, don't expect them to not camp on Sundays, but I think it is reasonable for them to support your choice to leave Saturday night. You will have to realize that things will be done a bit differently.  But realize there are many LDS youth in community troops NOW, who are happy and accepted. 

And the option of moving the troop to a new CO and continue running it the same way. And there are always concerns about enough volunteers, but it can work.

Wow, the anti-WB thing is interesting. I understand where many of you are coming from, seeing scouters who feel superior because of 2 or 3 or 4 wooden beads. 

Going through the course means information has been presented to you, not that you USE that knowledge. I too know a number of Wood Badgers who have no clue about scouting aims or methods, but that does not mean it is a bad course. I have taken the course and found it very useful in my life and interaction with scouts.  

Wood Badge is NOT a Silver Bullet, nor will it make any adult a "super scouter" .  I do encourage scouters to attend Wood Badge for what they can bring back to their youth, and for leadership skills it teaches. It is not about "hanging out with other adults" or avoiding youth. It is training how to better assist youth on their scouting trail and in life. 

It is a shame that some people have lost focus on what Wood Badge, and all of scouting is really about. And worse that their attitudes have caused others to view WB and other activities and groups with disdain or suspicion. I do understand your feelings and have had similar ones on certain groups in my own council. Don't let them keep you from a program that can help you better mentor youth.

2 hours ago, Oldscout448 said:

I will bet a weeks  months pay that SSScout doesn't care a whit about getting yet another knot on his shirt.  if he did he wouldn't be asking for input

I think you are almost certainly correct. I mention it more as a general reminder to all of us who occasionally get caught up in questions of recognition like this one. On either side of the issue.

Most awards, like the District Award of Merit, Silver Beaver, etc. are intended to be earned once. 

Beyond that the knots are to only be on the uniform ONCE, typically with devices for times when the knot represents multiple award or the award can be earned more than once. 

If one were to earn an award more than once that does not have appropriate devices, one should were the single knot. For instance it is quite possible to earn the adult religious knot for more than one religious organization, that person would not wear the knot twice, nor would he be able to have a device to indicate that he earned it more than once.

Remember that our purpose here is for the youth, not to get knots on our shirt. 

I am glad to see this thread was cleared of the off topic rants.  Thanks moderators. 

As a life-long scout and scouter, and a fairly recent convert to the LDS church (about 3 years) I have to say I am disappointed with the decision but will continue to support BSA and scouting. I also personally think that opening the programs to girls is great. 

My bigger concern is for the youth of the church without some of the safety measures and regulations that BSA has. I know we all like to complain about how BSA won't allow water guns and have regulations for many things and prohibits some activities that we find acceptable, but overall it is for the safety of the youth, and it does a pretty good job. Without some of those policies you can end up with well meaning people over there head. Just because you rock climb does not mean you know how to safely teach a bunch of youth and supervise the activity. 

I wish the BSA and the LDS Church the best of luck in their future programs, and wish those adults and youth involved in those programs safe and fulfilling experiences.