Buffalo Skipper

My get instinct when I first posted this is that scouts should be more responsible than to have us dole out their money. But after reading the last few responses, I am accepting that this practice is more commonplace than I first suspected. In recent memory, this had been a mandatory practice for our scouts. Certainly maintaining a bank for all first year scouts is understandable, especially if they have never been in an environment like this. On the other hand, we have some second and now third year scouts who, given $50.00 would spend it on 3 knives, 5 unremarakable trinkets and the balance on candy and such--all in their first visit to the trading post. These are not bad scout, the just lack self control. I see that many troops make participation voluntary. I think this may be the way to go. Any problems you see to make this required for first year scouts and voluntary beyond that? Or maybe it should be rank based?

I would hardly call bringing one's handbook to the meeting modifying the requirements. After all, if the troop makes the scout keep track of this advancement (as we do, though we duplicate in Troopmaster) then how would the BOR even be able to verify that the scout had completed the requirements if it wasn't there? Wearing of the uniform is one of many ways to measure scout spirit. And it is a part of a scout's patrol of the month score. Is it required? Not for advancement. But it is reqired to travel to and from all troop outings. And I would send someone home to change if they were, say part of a flag detail. But no scout will not advance because of it.

That is what our troop has done at summer camp for many years. Acted as a "deposit" location for scout's money. The bank is open at certain "hours" and the "withdrawls" are monitored closely. I have worked hard over the past several months to establish an "independent" way of thinking amongst the troop's leaders and members. So when I read the summer camp policies "guide" for parents, I found this to be somewhat contaray to the direction I have been encouraging the boys to take. I agree that prehaps for a first year scout this may be a good idea, managing funds for 15 and 16 year old scouts is really uncalled for. I have already spoken to our camp treasurer, who has done this for years (and frankly, it is a pain for him to do it) and we will only be "assisting" the first year scouts this summer. Anyone older than that should have it together enough to manage. If not, it may be a good lesson for them. Thank you for your input.

Do any other troops run a "bank" for the scouts while at summer camp? This is something we have done for years, and I remember it being done while I was at camp 30+ years ago. I am having second thougths about it right now, though. I have some ideas, but I will share them after I hear what other troops do.....

...Fourteen year olds are very different from eleven year olds, can be quite scary to them... NeilLup, taking your comment out of context here, but last night at the pack's crossover as our "youngest" Webelos was about to cross over, he saw the SPL (11th grader) and two PLs (7th and 8th graders) on the other side of the bridge. Suddenly (he had met them all at 2 different troop visits), he said--they are so old, how am I going to fit in with them, and they are the leaders?! This was all said quietly and not disruptively (in front of the whole pack), but it was still a realization that the age difference can be daunting to some of these scouts. Our troop has that "band of brothers" attitude amongst the oldest scouts, but we have a real gap between them and all but 4 of the "middle" scouts. Those older "brothers" will all age out in 11 to 14 months--they are close in age and have been together since cubs. Most are good with the younger scouts, but they are their own group.

We crossed our Webelos2s last night. Big show, lots of fun, good food. The boys received arrows (see above post). All the boys crossed to the same troop, and the SPL and PLs greeted each boy as they crossed, stripped their Webelos neckerchief and tabs and replaced with the new Boy Scout green. My son crossed, and my wife is relieved that she is done with Cub Scouts. I on the other hand still have another year (I am the Webelos 1 den leader (Go Dragons!), but I will likely stay around on the committee for some time as this was my pack as a youth. My son is excited about the transition to Boy Scouts, as are all of his former Cobra Den members!

OneHour, Question for you. When did you have your New Parent meeting? Was during a regular meeting? During/before/after a committee meeting? On a different night? We have a weak committee, and we would like to get more involvement, especially from the new crossovers (not your numbers, but a healthy crop this year). Inquiring minds want to know.....

OneHour, Congratulations! As you know, it is the most rewarding job in Scouting. The two most important things for you and the committee members are 1) it's for the boys, and 2) it's gotta be fun! I know much time and consideration went into you decision. Buckle up and hang on!

Sarge, I understand your dilemma. To me, logically, the front of the arrow should be the first award earned (though not all expressed is an award), and it should progress sequentially as you go back. But that is my logic, not necessarily someone elses. As a computer programmer, I have come to realize that all logic is relative to the programmerm, the language, or sometimes even the context in which it is presented. Hope that didn't get you thinking backwards about this. Scouting is always about moving forward. (And I have learned that most non-programming Scouters are still learning how to think logically) (This message has been edited by Buffalo Skipper)(This message has been edited by Buffalo Skipper)

I've been so busy at work and and prepping for my son's B&G that I had overlooked this thread. Here is an excerpt from the ceremony we are using. It lists the meaning of the colors--I presume them to be in order. His den put them in this order.... Blue stands for the Bobcat rank Orange stands for participation as a Tiger Cub White represents the Cub Scout Motto, Promise and the Law of the Pack Grey stands for the Wolf rank Gold & Silver stripes represent arrow points earned as Wolf scouts Brown stands for the Bear rank Gold & Silver stripes represent arrow points earned as Bear scouts Red/Yellow/Green/Blue stands for the Webelos rank Yellow stands for the Arrow of Light Award Red represents the crossover to Boy Scouts I hope that helps....

I spent my lunch break looking over lyrics. I found some interesting ones: Stand by Me (Temptations) When I Grow Up to Be a Man (Beach Boys) Wonderful World (Louis Armstrong) Dreams Go By (Harry Chapin) The Cape (Guy Clark) After really looking at the lyrics, though, I think I will go with Forever Young. It is upbeat, and a very positive song. Thanks for the suggestions. If anyone has any others, please let me know--I still have until tonight to finish it up....

Oh, we're including old Scouting uniforms (which are 50+ lbs out of fit?), well.... 1 Cub Scout uniform (1970s)--complete with patches,necherchief(s) and hat(s) 1 Boy Scout uniform (1970s)--(Troop) 1 Boy Scout uniform (1981)--complete National Jamboree Contingent troop 1 Sea Scout uniform (customized for ship 1980s)--complete 1 Cub Scout leader uniform 1 Leader uniform with velcro patches for multiple use 2 Boy Scout uniform (minimal insignia) for meeting and camping use 1 Boy Scout uniform (full insignia) for ceremonies 1 Venturing uniform (Forum Commissioner) 1 Sea Scout Khakis 1 Sea Scout Whites I don't even keep track of how many t-shirts, activity shirts, polos (15 at a quick count), or socks and hats etc. I have. It fills the second dresser in the laundry room.

I dropped a hint about this in another post, but I didn't have any takers, so I will be more blunt in a post. Every year our Pack does a short (3-5 minute) slide show for our crossing over Webelos on their time with the pack, from Tigers to the present. It shows their activities, how much they have grown up, and even some of their friends who may have dropped out along the way. In the past I have accompanied this with music, CSN's "Teach your Children." Great song, but I want to try something new. Any ideas on a good song to bring tears to the whole audience? Hard to beat "Teach your Children," but I am open to ideas....

2 down, 5 to go.Only 5? Oh. I wish I only had 5. I am at 8 right now, but I still don't have a set of Sea Scout Blues, and I have yet to buy any of the new shirts. You might take Scouting too seriously if.... You have a separate closet filled with scout uniforms.....

Some of the no longer issued awards with knot representations include: *Cub Scout Den Leader Coach Award *Explorer Silver Award I *Explorer Silver Award II (this was also used to represent several other Explorer level awards through the mid-1980s) *Air Explorer Ace *Explorer Ranger Award (there is a Venturing Ranger Award--quite an accomplishment, but no knot is authorized for wear on the uniform) *Skipper's Key (there is a Skipper's Key authorized, but the knot is the same as the other -keys: Scoutmaster, Commissioner, District Committee, and Advisor. The defunct knot used different colored rope than the other keys) Anyone who earned these now no-longer-offered awards is still entitled to wear them. Some, such as the Explorer Gold is still available for purchase through BSA supply, while most are not. Several suppliers manufacture copies, but these are not "official" knots. Additionally, back in the 50s (I think) several knots were issued on a green background to match the Explorer shirt as well as on white and navy blue to accompany the Sea Scout/Explorer uniforms. Again, these are no longer produced by BSA, but representations may be purchased through several sources. Many of these patches are of superior quality when compared to official BSA issue knots. Authorization to wear these reproductions and "fake" knots is subject to debate.

Wearing of neckerchiefs in our troop is very clear cut. Our neckerchiefs are unique, resembling a pizzaria napkin (white with red/pink checks). This dates back 70 years when one of the founding members of the troop owned an Italian restaurant and provided napkins as neckerchiefs. Neckerchiefs are only awarded to scouts (and adults) once they have camped with the troop. When I first joined the troop over 3 years ago as a committee member, I did not have the chance to camp with the troop for almost 2 years, and therefore was not given a neckerchief. I finally went when my son and I went on a Webelos campout with the troop a year and a half ago (I have missed only one campout since). When my son crosses next week, he will receive a neckerchief, as will one other Webelos who camped with us. The others who are crossing over have not camped with us yet, and will not receive one until they have done so.

Jet, As I said, having the ceremonies on separate occasions, because I have never seen a boy earn the AOL and then not cross over to a troop. I've heard of it elsewhere (and I am sure it has happened locally), I've just never witnessed it.

********Warning Long Post Ahead******** As a former Cubmaster (and current Scoutmaster) I have some particular feelings about this. First, in our district, many (not all) packs invite the OA dance teams to handlea crossover ceremony. These are accepted as is and are a great ceremony (in my opinion). We have always given the Webelos "free reign" to do what they want. The Webelos 1 dens are responsible for planning and organizing the B&G. They do so by consulting with the Webelos 2leaders and parentsto ensure their ideas are delivered. The CM has always "played along" with whatever script is presented to him. The AoL presentation and the following Crossover (always separate) are the highlight of the evening, and it has been universally agreed within the pack that this isthe Webelos 2's special night and the night that the rest of the cub scouts look forward to with awe and admiration. (Why can't allpack leaders and parentsplay this nicely?) After the AoL ceremony, everyone sits down and there is a little slide show with photos of the boys since they were together in Tigers. It includes some of the other boys who have come and dropped out of the den, and finally addsphotos of the current boys in the den. It is generally set to music. this year we are looking at CSN's "Teach Your Children"; but if anyone has anyother suggestions, I will pass it along (hint,hint). Following this, the OA begins the Crossover. The most stirring moment iswhen the cub scout stops in the middle of the bridge,turns aroundabout 150 degrees toface the cubmasterand gives him the cub scout salute, beforestepping off the bridge to the waitingtroop. As the boy approaches the troop, his neckerchief and tabs are removed, replaced by the troop regalia. Thecub's parents follow him across the bridge,symbolizing their leaving the pack forthe troop as well, but they step to the side while he is being tended by the troop. For the adults, there is rarely a dry eye in the place. This is the crossover ceremony used by the lodge: OA CEREMONY For Pack Crossover CHARACTERS: Allowat Sakima, Kichkinet Cubmaster, Scoutmaster OA Troop rep MATERIALS: Podium, Bridge, Cassette player and Indian flute music SETTING: Lights are off or partially dimmed The Webelos and their families or representatives are seated together at the front of the room. The Scoutmaster and any troop members are seated in the front on the other side of the room, where the Webelos will cross over. A steady drum beat marks the entrance of the Chief and Kichkinet, measuring their footsteps to the drum beat. As the Chief reaches the podium and raises his arms to gain attention, the drum beats 3 final LOUD beats. CHIEF: I, Allowat Sakima, Chief of the Yustaga Lodge and my brother(s) have been called to this Council Meeting to consider the requests of these Webelos (chief points to the Webelos standing up front) who feel they have passed the tests that would allow them to join this Council in the Brotherhood of Scouting. Will anyone speak for these Webelos? CUBMASTER: I will speak for them. CHIEF: Have these Webelos met the requirements? CUBMASTER: Yes, they have. They have studied many things that would increase their skills in Physical Activities, Mental Abilities, Community Relations, Technology, and Outdoor Experiences so that they might become self-sufficient Scouts. They have studied well to prepare themselves to join this Council. Webelos, please stand and recite with me the Scout Oath. (Cubmaster leads the Scout Oath) Please remain standing, and recite the Scout Law. (Cubmaster leads the Scout Law) (Cubmaster turns to Allowat Sakima and says) They have proven themselves worthy to stand before the Council. START THE FLUTE MUSIC CHIEF: Brother Kichkinet, please bring these Webelos before this council as I call their names. They must cross over the bridge to the future, to mark their commitment to the Brotherhood of Scouting. I ask that their parents or a representative follow them. The Brotherhood of Scouting has many members, and we welcome the wisdom of our elders to our Council fires. I ask that a representative of this Council to which they have applied, greet them as they arrive. Brother Kichkinet, please escort the Scoutmaster (and any troop members) to the foot of the bridge. Kichkinet escorts the scoutmaster and any troop members to the receiving side of the bridge. Kichkinet crosses the bridge and waits for the chief to callout the Webelos names. CHIEF: Calls the names of the Webelos to crossover. (Family members follow the Webelos) KICKINET: (whispers to the Webelos to turn and face his Cubmaster and salute using the Cub Scout salute) CHIEF: Continues until all have crossed over. (Holding arms up and outward for attention looks upward) And now may the Great Spirit guide us and shine forth his light upon us to show us our true path. MUSIC STOPS Steady drum beat paces the chief and Kichkinet as they exit. (Not too slowly) Three loud quick drumbeats sound as they exit from sight and the lights are brought up Following all this, the Webelos 1, now the oldest cub scouts in the pack, retire the flag and the B&G is concluded.

Truly beautiful craftsmanship.! The detail on the leatherwork is marvelous. I do like the idea of a walnut pole. We do not have walnut growing in our area, but I love to work with the wood. Well done! Our troop had it's 100th Eagle last year (we have had 2 since). We have 2 had a varnished plywood boards with brass name plates on them The first board holds about 70 or so names. I am re-making 2 boards from some unique figured cherry planks. My intention is to make each plaque hold 100 names. With 98 empty spaces, this should last us for a long time to come.

I posted my remarks on the other topic, so I will not repeat them. However, rereading the post, I will edit my opinion on the matter slightly. Crossover is about joining Boy Scouts, but it is a Cub Scout (not Boy Scout) function. I do disagree with the SM on one significant point. If he is looking for an induction ceremony, that has no place at the Blue and Gold, as it is a Boy Scout activity. A great place for an induction ceremony is with the new scouts at the campfire on their first campout. If the troop wants the cub scouts to witness this (as a recruiting tool), it would be good to do this at a troop's Court of Honor; and invite the pack (or at least the remaining Webelos) to attend. I saw a Scoutmaster who wanted to speak at the crossover and talk about "...the troop this" and "...the troop that." As the Cubmaster, I put my foot down, and said "No." We were doing an OA ceremony for crossover, and to have him speak would have interrupted the ceremony. I was simply inappropriate. He did as I asked.

Seabadge SR-33 staff debriefing had a discussion along these lines back in November after our course. It was discussed as hypothetical, but I see a definate connection between what is posted here and our little talk. Obviously, this was well underway (pun intended) at the time of SR-33. Interesting; this changes a lot of things. Thanks. I had no idea, even if I may have been part of a focus group on the matter....

The topic of "Bridging" has been discussed (and beaten to death) on other sites. The bridge is the symbolic crossing from Cub Scouts to Boy Scouts. If the Webelos is not joining a troop but is "dropping out," there is no bridge to cross. To cross a bridge "for the fun of it" is akin to handing out Arrow of Lights, because they have been in Cub Scouts for 5 years, but they haven't completed the requirements. The bridge is joining the troop. I am pretty much with the SM on this one. I would not expect the youth to fill out his paperwork before crossing, but I would not cross a boy with whom I have not had a Scoutmaster conference (joining). I went and visited 2 Webelos at home last night just for that purpose. On the other hand, I would really question why a boy would tough out Webelos and not be interested in joining a Boy Scout troop. The primary purpose of the Webelos program is to prepare boys for Boy Scouts. AoL requirements 2 and 6 require knowing the Scout Oath and Law, and meeting with a troop to discuss joining. While joining is not the requirement, it is largely a meaningless accomplishment if you don't. I have never personally seen a situation where any boy who made it to the Blue and Gold did not cross. Talk to those boys and find out why they stuck around if they are not continuing. This is the real problem, not the SM who doesn't want to cross boys who are not joining.

Kahuna, Your comment about Sea Scout Ships set off bells in my head, and it kind of makes sense. If a unit is chartered by another non-profit organization (and by a large percentage, most units are), then the charter's 501c3 covers the chartered unit. Admitedly, not all charters see it this way, but that is really not the point here. I think that may be intended to cover the bulk of the units, and the letter is really intended for that purpose. Obviously, for units chartered by business or other non- not-for-profit organizations, a 501c3 needs to be in order, but only if one is to receive donations for which the doner wishes to claim an IRS deduction. State tax exemption status is quite another story, and varies greatly from state-to-state. Some states make this easy (such as Florida, which has no state income tax), while others may be more involved. But again, the intent of the BSA letter may well have been an attempt to see that units fall under their charter partner's orgizational status. Just a thought.

I have a 16 year old SPL who does not like to wear his (scout) pants. We went to visit a troop to "get some ideas" about 4 months ago. I warned him that the troop we were visiting was notorious for wearing their uniforms, always. He tried to make some excuse, but I said I was just letting him know. He showed up in his scout shirt and blue and white striped soccer pants. We had no sooner gotten in the door than a young 11 year old scout wearing "Coke-bottle" glasses (you could almost see the snot dripping down his nose...) came up to him, stood in his space, looked him up and down once and then looked up into his face and said smartly, "Where are your pants?" He was really taken aback and wasn't sure how to respond. Holding back my laughter, I stepped in to save face and said, we're visiting from another troop. The boy walked around to his shoulder, eyed his troop number, replied "So you are," and walked away. For Scout Sunday, the troop ushered all the services, and our SPL was the only one not to wear a complete uniform. An older church member came up to me and asked, "That tall boy in the back, can he not afford a pair of pants? I will certainly buy him a pair of pants if he needs them." I explained that he was a teenager and what he really needed was a kick in the pants. She laughed and when on her way. We have really worked hard, and now all but two of the older teenagers show up in a complete uniform every week. With the new scouts coming in, I hope we can keep this trend. For years this was a belt up uniformed troop. The scouts have recently begun enforcing with one another to have their shirts tucked in as well. It is nice to see we are making progress.

Thanks much ozemu. I was really hoping someone would reach past the obvious and look in that direction. Well put.