cocomax

21 minutes ago, Horizon said:

It exists, and we created it. Let me provide some examples.

Pinewood derby - when the winning car comes from the kid whose family has the tool set at home to build the perfect racer or art object. They get the awards, while the kids who actually did it himself goes home discouraged. The next year, other parents learn the rules of the game and take over.

Campsite pioneering projects - where the camp rewards the 2:00 AM dads, while the Troop of boys whose gateway is a lashed collection of random poles and lines (but with proper knots) does not place. The next year, adult leaders either take charge - or the Troop votes to not bother with that part of the contest.

Eagle projects - where someone at the Council starts adding requirements until the only way to get approved is to have a parent used to running RFPs, procurement, or large-scale construction projects involved. Eagle being marketed as the most important thing in the world means that parents quickly realize the only path forward is to take control.

I can give similar observations for science fair, the dreaded California Mission projects, or other ways the school issue homework that can only be completed to the teacher's satisfaction when parents become heavily involved. 

We can be the ones in the way, insisting on only working with the youth. BUT. We also must ensure that what we require is appropriate for the youth we are mentoring, and that we are not adding to the requirements in such a way as to make it impossible (or improbable) that a youth can complete on their own.

The parents are stepping in to make sure their kid has an advantage over the other kids and to make sure their kid wins. They end up spoiling things for everyone else. As a kid the victory is not as meaningful when you know your parents did it for you.

In our troop the boys have to do almost everything themselves and we loose the contests most of the time,  but the boys can see with their own eyes what is going on. The boys in my troop would rather do things themselves and loose than have it done for them.  

I do not understand why some scouter parents behave the way they do.

Please step aside Helicopter Parents there is a new, even worse form of parent taking the field. 

https://www.weareteachers.com/lawnmower-parents/

I know some scouts that are near getting their eagle that have their mom stepping in and speaking to the scout master and SPL on the their behalf, for easy things like if they were or were not going on the next trip..

I have seen moms acting as a buffer between between merit badge councilors and scouts, to really help speed things up.

I have been to Camp-O-Rees where at 2am Saturday morning a group of dads were busy building the award wining pioneering project while the boys slept.

So I have seen these take charge parents in the wild. . .  I just did not know it was such a wide spread thing.

8 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

I compare the the BSA updates similar to how we handled adding girls.  As the change occurs, I expect over communication and focus.  As a Pack we wanted to ensure the girls that joined understood we fully welcomed them, regardless of what noise they may hear from outside.  So, we sent emails to parents, included the girls as a focus during various events and ensured we fully welcomed them.  Now that they are fully on board we are moving to business as usual.  We still need to add some reminders that we accept both boys and girls in our Pack as MANY are unaware of the change.

I would expect a lot of focus from BSA through June/July next year on girls given this major change.  Units adding girls will need the guidance and many people are still unaware of the change.  Over communication will be key.  Over time it should be balanced but I have no issue with the increased focus short term.  

It sounds like your pack is doing a good job welcoming the girls.

At this point,  we are so far down this rabbit hole I would like to see BSA hit the gas,  not the brakes.  I think it would would be great if BSA removed all pictures of boys from their web site and all magazines. Only show girls, and make sure most of the girls are people of color.  Go all in.  Focus only on girls and female scouters. Go in 100% and see what happens. Do it for at least a year or two. 

I have reached a state of peace with what is going on. I have reach a state of acceptance.

I try to only worry about things that I have the power to control,  I have almost zero influence over what BSA does, it is a waste of time to worry about BSA national matters.   

I am grateful that live in a magical time.  I get to be a scouter and my son is a scout during the last days of the Boy Scouts.  My son will be one of the last Boy Scouts as that title fades into the dust bin of history. 

We live in interesting times.

I like to read things and talk about all things BSA, because it is interesting to me. Not because I can really change anything. 

3 minutes ago, qwazse said:

Really? Boys log on to scouting dot org? But, soon it's gonna be Boy's Life and other youth-facing publications.

We have had an uptick in membership. But, the Pack will not serve up as many Webelos next year.

Troops (BSA and GS/USA) have been cycling up and down like that for decades. It's like the weather: hard to catch a global warming signal for all of the noise.

Yes, when a boy wants to join the Boy Scouts and does an google search to find out more, maybe try to find a troop, they will most likely end up on scouting.org.

You are right, I do not know what the big picture of what is going on a large scale.  I just see a tiny piece of the world, and my piece of the world is not at all like the rest of the world. 

I will have to wait and see what happens.

Boy's Life said many months ago that they were going to change their name this October to "welcome the girls to scouting" . . . I am wondering if they are still still have the guts to do so.  

39 minutes ago, walk in the woods said:

As much as I'm enjoying the virtual ritual of burning Wood Badgers at the stake, https://www.scouting.org/scoutsbsa/, seems to make the OP's point.  Would it have been too difficult to put a rotating banner on the page, or split the banner to show both boys and girls smiling and enjoying the outdoors?

The boys notice stuff like this,  even if they don't say anything.

What boys will do is walk away from scouting or never join in the first place. 

Some moms notice stuff like this and get very upset, more so then the dads. Our troop is having to deal with moms that want to pull their boys out of scouting over this even though our troop will not be changing any. 

It seems like recruiting is extra hard this year,  the near by troops are down to 2 or 3 boys, a few years ago they had a lot of boys. I do not know if it has anything to do with BSA focusing on girls.

The Girl Scout troops are growing like gang busters around here.   

How to do a teaching presentation with a small group:

Know the subject really well.

Take a bullet point outline of the subjects being covered.

Bring interesting props.

Bring hands on materials for the people to work with.

HAVE FUN!!!

Walk around in front of the group and make eye contact from time to time, with one person at a time,  talk to that one person, in a loud but kind voice.

Value each person.

Allow extra time to allow members of the group to talk about their life experience on the subject at hand.

If you can work input from people in the group into your presentation, DO SO.

Be kind.

Have Fun!

Be open to learning new things yourself from the people in the group. Almost everyone knows something you don't.  

Make it your goal to always be learning and always improve yourself.

Be humble.

Be self aware.

Be aware of what is going on around you.

Great teachers are even greater students, great leaders are great follows.

---------------------------

After you are done, think about what you just did. How did people react to it, how can you improve?

Did everyone walk away with a sad face,  thankful the presentation is over and they can leave now? 

or

Are they smiling, laughing, gathered around you shaking your hand thanking you because that was AMAZING! Do they end up hanging around talking to you and asking for contact information.

2 hours ago, WisconsinMomma said:

So, have you since volunteered to be an IOLS trainer for your Council?

I taught portions of BALOO in the Spring, my first time teaching it, and I am sure there are people who had more experience than I did taking the course.   Of course, I invited comments in some areas, like Geocaching and I asked if people had experience with it, but when I did a segment on basic First aid and CPR, I taught it exactly to the BSA guideline.  If a person knew all the material coming in, at least they were able to hear me reinforce that YPT is non--negotiable, don't make up your own loopholes. 

That's not really the point. The point is that I am a person willing to volunteer for a 12-hour day of training and prep for that class.  Are you? 

It almost sounds like you are trying to shame me,  point out you are better than me and telling me what to do. Interesting,  I do get that a lot,  I have can come to expect it.

Men like me are not wanted by my district, I was even told so by a high level at district wood badger when I offered to help with district level training.

So, my troop is my family, they want me around. The Girl Scouts call on me from time to time to do training classes, and they are always joy to be around. I would do it for free, but they almost always give gift me with smiles, patches and cookies.  I have a winter coat covered in Girl Scout patches and my GSUSA membership pin. I even had the joy of running 2 huge over night science camps with over a hundred girls. . . the high light of that night was getting to do a campfire magic science show / Girl Scout camp fire program,  it was so much fun. 

I know a great scouter we called "Old Joe" he was a scout master for a long time and I took my scout master training class with him, it was an amazing class. It was story after story of his experiences as scout master, how the patrol method worked, how we should not focus on advancement, the boys will advance simply by doing scout things, if the boys are not advancing you are scouting wrong.  The boys at some point need to lead their own journey to eagle, if that is what they want to do.  He told us that even if you have a boy in your troop for a month or two the experience would plant seeds that would change the boys life for ever. Old Joe did crazy high adventure stuff, solo, and with his troop. He did an amazing outdoor adventure blog with tips and how to camp/hike/mountain climb/white water/cook  His IOLS training course was done by himself alone, with no flip charts, in the woods.  He is the type of guy that by just being Joe ends up with people following him, people love being around Joe because he is one of those guys that radiates scout spirit. I was signed up to take the course with Joe and was looking forward to it. . . 

... then something really bad happened.  Joe was dismissed as a trainer by district.  Joe did nothing wrong.  It was a really ugly mess. 

There are people at my district level that do not want any "super star scouters" that people naturally wanted to follow.  If you have people like around they might out shine the "truly" important people that nobody wants to follow.  Joe was dismissed, because someone at district got jealous of him. 

I know how that goes, I was pushed out of my job of running science summer camps, because I had become a super star that the kids flocked to and my boss got jealous that was becoming more important then her. She worried the summer program relayed too much on me, so they got rid of me. . .  and in two years the whole summer program collapsed and she was fired by the board.      

13 minutes ago, DuctTape said:

Outdoor experience yes. But not specific to being a scout. As I said, many with scouting experience did not experience the patrol method and try to do scouts in the way they experienced it,  which takes a lot of time to retrain them into proper patrol method leaders. Those with outdoor experience and no scouting experience are more willing to learn to implement the patrol method with no need to unlearn bad habits.

Once the patrols are trained and up and running that is when the real fun begins.  

Let me tell you what GSUSA is doing right, at least the GSUSA here in central California. BSA could learn a whole lot from them.

The GSUSA Camper training was amazing, even and old mountain man like myself learned a bunch of new things, like cooking cookies in a card board box over a camp fire, really, I got to do that, it was so cool.

The training was FUN, I would go back and take the course over again just because it was so fun to spend time with two old Girl Scouts, that were like the Bear Grylls and Green Bar Bill of Girl Scouting.

They were super stars of scouting, radiating scout spirit.   I took many of their ideas back to my Boy Scout troop and the ideas when over really well, I am a better scouter for going to GSUSA camper training.   I would gladly be a part of these ladies troop with them as the leaders. Any scouter that just spends time with these ladies becomes a better scouter. 

Here is the crazy part. . .

When  I re-enact the training I received that day with a group of scouts, girl scouts or cub scouts,  I mean exactly what I did with those wonderful ladies, everything works great!  I mean it is fun, really fun.

Those ladies showed us how to be a girl scout by example, they were playing the part of the older girls and were playing the part of the young girls and we all had so much fun playing the game of scouting.  Yes, we sung silly songs, yes we played tag few times.  It is natural for scouters to mimic their training and that is what the old Girl Scouts wanted us to do! They told us to!  

What I see over and over  in the BSA are trained leaders re-enacting their training.  Scouts are now subjected to listening to someone drone on and on in front of a flip chart ,  class room style.  Adults run the show and boss the scouts around in the same manor the trainers bossed them around at training.   BSA training is a BAD example of how to run a scout troop. Wood badge is also a horrible example of how to run a scout troop.   I have seen way too many freshly minted, tin plated,  bead wearing tyrants screaming at the boys like a drill instructor.  I see those beads and critter patches and start think oh no, no, no, oh dear God no, please, no, no, no, no. . . . 

Is BSA training us to be scouters or business managers?    How did Boy Scouting transform from a FUN GAME into a boring and serious business?

Please keep that boring serious business up at national and away from the troop level scouts and scouters.

Train the scouters BY EXAMPLE like the Girl Scouts do. Teach scouters to play the game, to have fun, like the Girl Scouts do. 

What is that you say? Another beading ceremony tonight at the big camp fire. (I wonder if there will be lots of inside jokes and un-scout like insults that I will not understand like the last few times?)    Sorry , I will have to stay here at our troop's camp fire, you guys go on without me, I have some chocolate chip cookies to cook over the camp fire in a card board box for a late night snack when you get back. . .  or stay here with me and have a fresh hot chocolate chip cookie and coffee and I will tell you about some of the strange things I have seen in the woods. . . 

One moment that stands out was I was sitting there with a knife, sharping stone, map, compass and GPS in my pocket. Just 100 feet away was my truck filled with camping gear and my back pack ready to go on a 3 day hike. I also had 2 more GPS, a box of compasses, and a satellite messager   I was prepared to help.   At the "ice breaker" I explained in detail my life experience and having lived in the woods all my life and I got a pretty odd reaction. The instructor only asked in a harsh manor , "But do you have any BSA training, have you been to wood badge?"  I felt like I was stepping on our instructors toes and hurting her feelings so I backed off and kept quiet.  It was very clear she wished to show her dominance over me and make sure I understood that I was the student and she was the teacher.  I was thinking, wow I really messed up, I must have really come across as a pushy jerk, I really need to keep my mouth shut and be a good student. 

The next day when it was time to learn about GPT units and she did not have one I offered her to use the one in my pocket,  she said "No I do not know how to use one of those, I have a GPS app on my iPhone we can use."  I told her, "I can show everyone how to use this GPS. I have been Geocaching since 2003, they are pretty easy to use."  She told me, "No, you are not a qualified BSA instructor,  you can not give instruction." 

I just said "Okay" and smiled. I kept quiet.  I kept thinking, what in the world has happened to the Boy Scouts, wow what a mess. . . 

Her GPS iPhone app turned out to just be a compass and the instruction consisted of "THAT WAY IS NORTH, THAT WAY IS EAST, THAT WAY IS SOUTH, THAT WAY IS WEST"  then the ladies had a 15 minute discussion of if the compass app would work if they were out of cell phone service range. ( I have no idea, I do not even own a smart phone.)   

I was thinking, wow, that is odd, it is somehow okay for them to have a discussion about cell phone compasses and the other students got to talk, but I was expected to keep my month shut.

I must have really messed up.  I felt really bad and really unwanted. 

29 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

@cocomax,  Was it BALOO or IOLS?  While my Cub Scout Leader BALOO class was mostly lecture, handouts, and whiteboards, LNT wasn't a topic.  yes, it was boring, especially with all the experience I had.  Why when I taught BALOO, it was a lot more hands on and fun.

IOLS is suppsoe to be hands on with camping. LNT is part of it, but not to that extreme.

It was IOLS,   The evening was all leave no trace, all flip charts.   In the morning we watched a guy cook us breakfast over a large camp stove and we ate on paper plates. We had a class on the flag and posting the colors that was all flip charts.  Next class was on wood tools, we got to look at axes, saws, and knives (but not touch), we learned the safe way for a scout to use an ax is to hold the ax against the wood and hit the back end of the ax with a hammer. The instructor told us that there was no way to sharpen a saw and she did not know how to sharpen an knife so we skipped that.  Next was map and compass and GPS, but they did not bring any maps, they had one compass, with a big bubble, but the instructor did not know the basics on how to use a compass like what the difference between magnetic north and true north we did not get to touch the compass.  She showed us how to find north with a stick, you just stick a stick in the ground and the shadow always points north.  Oddly she put the stick in the ground, but the rest of us didn't.  The first and last hands on thing we got to do was learn to tie a square not, the two 14 year old eagle scouts that showed up to teach knots sadly could not remember how to tie a bowline, sheet bend, double half hitch or taint line, but they did know the square knot really well and we all got to tie square knots.   Next a very over weight guy showed up with a back pack and showed use how to use a bear canister, where to buy them, how to carry them, covers for them, how you always have them and how to pack a back pack with clothes to keep warm, and always bring cotton clothes, he ended with a talk on leave no trace, and how it is important that we pack out any trash we find.  Then they tried to talk use into taking wood badge for an hour.  Then they signed a card and handed it to us and we went home, some of the other scouters left a lot of trash on the ground. I stayed behind and picked up the trash and was the last to leave.  

I offered to help a few times, but was soundly told no, I was not qualified to offer instruction. So I kept my mouth shut. 

. . . I ran 21 weeks of outdoor summer camp for 6 to 12 year old kids, was a logger for 10 years, camped in the woods more than 2000 nights, (I HAVE SEEN SOME THINGS OUT THERE IN THE WOODS!) hiked on 50 milers, got lost a few times and had to use a map an compass to find my way. . . was a natural/science teacher for 7 years . .  a boy scout for 6 years. . .  I have done hundred of stage shows by myself. . .    so it was really odd for me to sit there and be taught by people that do not know what they are talking about and some never even camped one night in the woods. . . nobody cared who I was. . . all they know about me was I was not a wood badger and therefore not really anyone of importance. . .

But I was so good!  I smiled nodded my head and kept my mouth shut. I did not make trouble for nobody!

It was great to get back to my troop, my second family,  and told the adults the good news of what I learned at IOLS, we all had a good laugh.   

The GSUSA organization is a wonderful group.  After taking GSUSA Camper training, I can tell you it was light years better than my BSA Outdoor training.

  My BSA Outdoor training was 90% flip charts, and an obsession with leave no trace. . .  we were taught to always hike in groups of 5 or less to minimize impact on the environment, wear special soft sole shoes to not crush grass or worms, walk on rocks when possible, always pack out your used TP and Poop in zip lock bags, always carry a bear locking canister,  use window screen to screen the dirt where you camped to gather all the micro trash, place a tarp under were you are cooking to catch food crumbs,  when building a fire dig a hole and carefully set the dirt and grass in safe place and line the hole with a space blanket to shield the worms and microbes from heat, when done with the camp fire, pack out the ashes remove the space blanket and return the soil and grass to the hole. . .  I asked the instructor how often she camped and her answer was, "Never, I don't camp."  It was so boring, hour after hour of flip charts and hand outs.  They group that I was which formed little clicks,  and their was lots of bickering and unhappy people, 3 of the people did not want to take the class at all, but had to because they needed it for wood badge.  

My GSUSA instructors where two old girl scouts that must be in their 70's that have camped all their life and are still camping. . .  we played lot of FUN outdoor games, carved fuzzy sticks, started camp fires, sharpened knifes, tied knots, cooked bread on a stick, bandanna in foil, cooked hobo packs,  learned map reading, did a compass course, cooked an egg in a bag, made cookies over a campfire in a pair of cardboard boxes, we did skits, they told funny stories of their grand adventures,  the ladies ran use around all day it was such a blast.  It was such a great example of scout spirit and fellowship. It really made me look forward to working with the Girl Scouts.  One thing they reminded us again and again was this has GOT to be FUN. You must have fun with this, or the game of scouting will not work. 

 GSUSA is fun, my GSUSA troop is fun,  my Boy Scout Troop is very fun. . .

The GSUSA Council in my area is rock solid and very fun and have their act together, my BSA Council is a mess of infighting and incompetence, I do my best to ignore them.  

56 minutes ago, LVAllen said:

I will admit that girls tend to do better in a classroom-style adult-directed sit-quietly-and-listen setting. But if a scout activity resembles anything like such a classroom, something has gone seriously off the rails. Scouts learn by doing.  

We are already there. . .

Two years ago there was a camp-o-ree that for the events they had stations set up with pop ups and folding chairs were the scouts were taught a subject using flip charts.  Packing a back pack,  leave no trace,  basic first aid,  and navigation were some of the subjects taught.  Patrols were awarded points for paying attention and answering questions at the end. After finishing one station they would rotate to the next station.

I asked around why they were running things that way, without the boys actually doing anything and was told it was modeled after Wood Badge, that is the way things are taught at Wood Badge so they thought bringing flip charts to a camp-o-ree would be the right way to go.  The Wood Badgers are using the Wood Badge course its self as the example of the correct way to run scouts.         

1 minute ago, ParkMan said:

She's taking over because your pack, troop, crew, and district have weak leaders who don't know how to lead a group of people.  That she is a women is not the problem.  I have lots of very strong female leaders in our pack, troop, and crew and it works perfectly fine. 

 

Do you know who all the "weak leaders" who let this happen?  They are almost all men.

Do you know why they let it happen?   They are all afraid of her.

Do you know why they are afraid of her?  Because she is a woman.

Why are they afraid of a woman?

I am VERY afraid of women like her, does that make me a "weak leader"?  I do not have the skill set to even begin to deal with a women like that.

4 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

We seem to have lots of these posts.  Some parent showed up at a troop, didn't understand Scouting, took over, and ruined it all.  Sometimes folks try to associate that with women - but not always.  

The common thread I see in these is a troop that can't seem to figure out how to rally around a defined program and channel adult energy accordingly.  It has nothing to do with male vs. female.  At the unit level, the failing is in understanding that organizing adult energy and having a defined culture is something you have to work at. 

At a national level, I'd argue that we've missed the boat on preparing adults to lead programs.  We focus on so much on SM training around Scout skills that we've neglected those skills you need to deploy a program.

This wood badge trained mom used the fact that she was a woman as the primary weapon to take over the pack, troop, crew and district. . .   being a woman has been her shield.   No man can do that.    

1 minute ago, Eagledad said:

I think it's how our wives have trained us.

Barry

So true!!!

My wife does not want me out camping out in the woods with young females, for good reason.

If I mess up and destroy my life by crossing the wrong female.  I destroy my wife's life as well.   I have to stay safe so that my wife can stay safe.  

I always have to think of what is best for both myself and my family. 

Bad male scouters and scouts I can deal with very easily. 

When dealing with very bad female scouters I do not know what to do, maybe I am just not brave enough to face that storm of emotion and anger.  My first instinct is to RUN. One false accusation from a angry female and your life as you know it is OVER.  

This mom was given a district level leadership position.   I have seen her decide to have a important meeting, to discuss future district events with only a 2 hour notice and then the next day berate and attack everyone on facebook for not showing up.   .  .   She was also the one that organized and canceled the last 4 district camp-o-rees on the day of the event for strange reasons, like canceling the event for "weather" when the temps are 80 high and 50 low at night, no wind, no rain, no smoke and clear.

I am not sure why she has so much power at the district, her doings have run off many good women and men scouters. Maybe the only ones left at district level are afraid of her, or just don't care anymore.   

The worst example of things gone wrong is a near by troop with 56 scouts had their scout master driven off by a mom (wood badge trained mom).

This mom's husband took over the job of SM,  and she is on the troop committee. She changed things so that the cub pack, troop and venture crew all meet at the same time and the place in the same room.  The venture crew which includes girls,  is treated like part of the troop and is her way of going co-ed.  The scouts and crew are required to run the cub dens to make things easier for the parents. The scouts do not get to have meetings of their own.   Most of the adults of the troop are very overweight so hiking is out of the question. Their outings consist of car camping with the adults cooking and everyone playing on their cell phones for entertainment. The SM (husband) just sits there (when he is not cooking) and she runs everything.

They go to merit badge colleges where they get 3 merit badges in a single weekend.

If you watch this group of cubs, crew and scouts at one of their car camping outings you see that they are all treated like tiger cubs,  the only one screaming orders is the mom in charge, the boys have ZERO say and no chance to lead anything.

The contact info for the troop was always her name, it was like her SM husband did not really exist. 

This mom acts like she is a bad example of a  SM, PL, and SPL all rolled into one.

She is a proud feminist and is quick to throw the "IF MOMMY IS NOT HAPPY THEN NOBODY IS HAPPY!" card your way, and she acted like she was everyone's mommy.  If you say the slightest thing might softly question one of here wishes, she will start crying and then get angry.

The troop was doomed and the boys walked away,  nobody could do anything.  The troop dropped to just 6 boys. 

She was hiding behind the fact that she was a woman to get her way.  If you say anything, you are a horrible women hating sexist toxic male pig. . .

I do not know of any way to deal with any woman that is using this tactic to get her way.   There are many women like her in my district and their numbers are increasing.

What I am seeing around here (in my district) are the new women scouters do not have to follow the rules. They can change any aspect of a troop, pack, training program to match their own personal wishes, they do not have to follow any rules. Men are not allowed to say anything, out of fear of an emotional outburst.  Good men are being pushed out, attacked and dismissed. 

Anything a women wants is pretty much allowed and is extremely destructive ( when it is something that openly breaks the rules, and/or drives away the boys). 

and things are just getting worse and worse. . .  

What is an unconditional scouter?

Unconditional means, simply, without conditions. Without rules. Without expectations.  All our relationships, even our relationship with scouting, have conditions attached. 

Married couples all rules of their relationship. There are limits. No healthy relationship is unconditional. There is a mental rule book for their relationship. That way, both partners know the parameters and the conditions by which the relationship will remain intact and healthy.  When you’re feeling hurt, angry or confused in your relationship, it’s often because you feel one or more conditions of the relationship have been violated by your partner.

Any man or woman demanding that their spouse show them unconditional loyalty and love, is most likely up to no good and is most likely a monster.

Any organization that demands unconditional loyalty, is ether up to no good or is a cult.

People that make fun of or bully scouters for having conditions (rules and expectations that we signed up for) in order to continue to be scouters are not people I want to be around

The scout law and the scout oath are a LIST OF CONDITIONS we try to live by to be scout like.

If a troop is not living by the oath and law, and there is no way to turn it around, the scouts should leave, all scouts should be conditional scouts.   

I am a registered adult (male) in a Girl Scout troop with 14 girls who all want to go camping.  I have gone to GSUSA outdoor training and qualify as a firstaider. The troop has been around for 10 months. I would love to take the girls camping, I have been in the BSA for a total of 15 years as a boy and adult leader.

None of the adult female leaders want to go camping.

The female leadership of the Girl Scout troop has decided that no males (including registered adult males, like myself) are allowed to go camping with the Girl Scout troop if they should ever decide to go camping.

The parents of the Girl Scouts now want to have the girls join the BSA and have the men take care of things and take the girls camping and hiking, "because men are really good at that sort of thing and do not mind getting dirty."  They just want the girls stuck into the existing Boy Scout Troop and make things co-ed.

I had to tell them that they needed to form a new all girl BSA Troop and on top of that we would need at least 1 adult female over the age of 21 that is willing to go camping and hiking for it to work. 

We still can not find any adult women willing to camp so far.  Not even simple car camping let alone hiking. 

14 girls and not a single women available to get a girls outdoor program going. . .   this brings it all to a grinding stop. . . sad.

The Boy Scout troop I am an adult member of can field at least 5  BSA registered adult men if needed for a trip and we only have 10 boys in the troop. 

What BSA should have done was come out with girls only program with its own name. 
(That was the plan last year.)

The press release should have read:

The Boy Scouts of America is introducing a new program just for girls ages 11 to 17 called "Scouts BSA". All girl troops will be able to take part in fun outdoor activities and earn merit badges and girls can even earn the rank of Eagle Scout.  This new girl's program will mirror the boy's program in every way possible.  The Boy Scouts program will continue as it is with no changes.

Instead BSA has caused confusion, hurt feelings, sadness and all sorts of problems. What could have been seen as a great thing now is a PR disaster.   

The act of changing "Boy Scouts" to "Scouts BSA" gives people the impression that you have made Boy Scouts COED, that is confusing.

Seeing that so many adult eagle scouts and active scouters are confused there is a big problem. 

Well, I can tell you one thing after reading the news today and polls and comment sections and twitter, facebook, minds, youtube and gab . . .

The Boy Scouts was a really well loved group by most of America,  I read so many wonderful things about the Boy Scouts, many men that were glad they were Boy Scouts as boys. Many moms that had nice things to say about the Boy Scouts as well as the Girl Scouts.

The general public is taking the end of Boy Scouts pretty hard, as they say you do not realize how much something meant to you until it is gone.

The Boy Scouts will be missed, they had a good run, 108 years.

The boys are going to run with "Scout Me Out", trust me. It will be their battle cry.