cocomax

I have a family member that was falsely accused 15 years ago and his life was destroyed, has not been able to get a job since then.

I worked at a science center where one of the office workers made false sexual harassment against  3 different men and bragged about making it all up, I quit before it happened to me.

I worked for Lowes as a shed builder and several times I had (married) women make very strong sexual advances while I was building sheds,  the idea of false accusations terrified me, I was relieved when I quit that job.

As the #metoo movement gets stronger and is destroying lives of men based on a single accusation, men are taking steps to protect themselves by not hiring women, avoiding women and using a system like BSA YPT at work.  If you do something that makes the wrong women uncomfortable in any way, it could be the end of your world was you know it.  Men are living in fear.

However, "Turning men and women into hostile opposing camps is not going to be good for either sex." (NYPOST)

I wonder how much of this has already worked its way into the BSA. 

Here is a news story on the growing problem: 

https://nypost.com/2018/02/03/a-male-backlash-against-metoo-is-brewing/

1 hour ago, EmberMike said:

I don't get it. So many folks here are always voicing concerns about the weakening of the program, how things will change when girls arrive, losing the masculinity of the BSA, etc. And yet the consensus here now seems to be that delivery of the program is what drives delivery of the masculine aspect of Scouting. 

Assuming that the Boy Scout program doesn't change because of the girls' program, and if program is the means by which we deliver the whole "turning boys into men" component, then what's the problem? 

I don't see the program weakening at all, it is not that hard of a program, there is nothing in there that a girl can't do. I do not get it at all ether.

The program is not the masculine part of Boy Scouts anyway, the girls can do the program and grow in a feminine manor.

Boys and men bring the masculine aspect to Scouting.    

If Boy Scout troops are allowed to continue to be only boys our troop will not change at all due to girls joining a new all girl troop in our town, if someone starts one.  In our town BSA and GSUSA are friends and support one another, I have never once heard one of our boys say anything bad about the girls. Our Girl Scouts are very kind to the Boy Scouts as well. 

The faction of people running around with the idea that to be pro-girl you have to be anti-boy are merely an annoyance.  

41 minutes ago, Hawkwin said:

Hah! Sounds like my household as of late. My wife recently sent me an 8 page google doc link with plans for our next vacation.

I have never given my wife a "honey do list",  but she has given them to me in the past.  I wonder if writing lists of things for men to do  is a common thing for women, but men for some reason don't do the same to their wives. 

3 hours ago, HelpfulTracks said:

And another article came across right after that.

https://www.theblaze.com/news/2018/02/01/girls-signing-up-in-droves-to-become-boy-scouts-in-northern-california-were-both-created-equal

Holy cow!   You all should ready the comments at the end of the article!   These are mostly right wing people that love God and country that should be supporting the Boy Scouts in high numbers!  The comment section is a dumpster fire.  It makes us look like Boy Scouts!

BSA has some big troubles with public image now, and it seems to be getting worst. 

When friendly feel good news stories leaves the false impression that Boy Scouts in now a co-ed thing with troops of Boys and Girls sharing tents. . .  there is a big problem. . .

The grown man playing doctor teaching first aid with the young girls was an odd choice of photos, it is something that could be used against us by someone that does not like the Boy Scouts.  

50 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

We do what you describe Tampa Turtle.  Yet, I also notice that many of our most active volunteers are moms.  In fact, just about every committee position is a mother.  Dads tend to be ASMs.  But, most of them are pretty busy and are not all that active.  So, I'm wondering if we're really all that masculine as a unit.  It's honestly the moms that are pushing the troop to do things.  They don't want to micromanage the boys - but they want to see the boys doing stuff.  The moms are honestly way more into boy led than the dads.  If our troop was run by the dads alone, we'd show up in the parking lot on a Friday afternoon and wing every camping trip.  Honestly, the adults in our troop are a lot like the way that folks describe many venture crews.  The moms get stuff done.  The dads just kinda show up.

So, this brings me back to the basic question.  if we wanted to make sure we're promoting our boy's masculine traits, just what would you do?  The teamwork idea makes a lot of sense to me.  Another I've thought of is fostering competition that drives teamwork.  Another is pushing the boys to take more leadership roles on.

 

What you have there is a case of the men being men. Men do not want to upset the ladies,  if the ladies are getting things done the men just back off and fade away and let the ladies run things.    

A grand experiment would be to let your troop  have a dad trip were the dad's show up on Friday afternoon and just wing a camping trip, that could be a grand adventure. See how it goes. See if the boys have less fun or more fun.

The STEM labs pop up and close down all the time. The San Diego and Santa Barbara ones have vanished. Strange.

I was thinking, if STEM Scouts is a big deal and they are so tiny and take such a great effort and expense to run. . . will Boy Scouts ever die?

Just think the news from 100 years from now might read. . .

Boy Scouts are making a big come back from their low of only 3 troops back in 2067,  they are up to 32 Councils (24 states), each council has an least one Troop! 

One aspect of "learning to be a good man" that I see in our troop learning to work as a team to get a job done. The boys learn to get along with new guys that are difficult to deal with, as the bonds between the boys grow things become less difficult and the boys start to see that troublesome former new guy as a welcome resource to the team.  The guys state their beliefs and views on the world and have to defend them when they get called out by someone that feels different.  The guys keep things friendly, because they are close friends after all, they know the other boys have their backs. It is a safe place for them to sort out their life so far and share their thoughts on the state of the world.

The journey of "learning to be a good man" never ends, I continue to sort myself out.  It is a process that I learned from being a scout, it stuck with me.

Every generation of scout will be different from the last as the world changes, they will bring to scouting their own experiences that will add to what the other boys bring.

Scouts need to learn to observe the world, think about what is right and wrong and sort themselves out. 

The article points to the popularity of Jordan Peterson,   Jordan Peterson has said many times that the young men who flock to him are hungry for responsibility in a world that scream for rights. 

My question is do young men view BSA as a group to join that would aid them to grow in good character and learn to be responsible or do young men view BSA has something else?

At a time when young men need something like the BSA more than ever how come they are not flocking to join?

1 minute ago, David CO said:

I can agree to that. It is unequal and unfair.

However, I think we sometimes need to be a little bit unequal and unfair to our volunteer scouters. My CO has never promised to be equal and fair in the selection of volunteer scouters. We choose our scouters based on the needs of the unit, not on the needs of the scouters.

In regard to youth protection, I think the needs of the scouts must come before the needs of the scouters.

 

See there, you can agree that it is unequal and unfair.

. . . and you are okay with that,  because you have reasons that justify being unfair.

Can everyone at least agree that:

When male Scouters are treated differently from female Scouters with regard to YPT, that is unequal. And unfair.

Being fair and equal is an impossible task.  You will never measure up to everyone else's measure of what is fair and equal.

I will stick with being friendly and kind to everyone around me and hope for the best.

I think Sydney Ireland's petition is out of date, she will be getting what she wants.  She should start a new petition asking that she be given official recognition of all her hard work and be awarded the rank of Eagle.  She is already the most famous scout in the world.  

"Girl Scouts" . . .   it looks like we already have a bad case of brand confusion. Which is bad for the Girl Scouts, Boy Scouts and Cub Scouts.

Question is what will happen when it comes to brand confusion next year when the Girl Boy Scouts start up?

All confusion and unfairness can be avoided if all cub packs had 2 female leaders. 

A set of 2 female leaders can always be trusted.

A set of two female leaders can lead:

1 All Girl Packs
2 All Boy Packs
3 Co-ed Packs

A set of 2 male leaders can not be trusted with girls, therefore are inferior to female leaders who can be trusted with boys and girls. Women are the universal leaders, having men around just confuses things and increases risks.

(By the way, I am a Male Cub Scout Den Leader) 
Just stating the facts, I do not like the facts,  but there they are.

You are an active scout with the current rank of "Life".   That is actually pretty impressive.  

It is clear to me why BSA are putting this double standard into effect.

The venturing equal protection rules should be the new rules for cub scouts if they want to be fair,  but  they are not going to do that  .  . 

Because there are many current boy only cub packs that have female cub masters and leaders that would be breaking the rule and they would be shooting themselves in the the foot. . .  again. . .  by messing up existing cub packs.    

It sounds to me that BSA and society in general hold women and girls in a place of higher esteem. Women are more trusted, less likely to lie, less likely to do anything wrong.  In a court of law the women are to be believed and the word of a man dismissed as a lie.

A pair of women can lead any cub pack or cub outing.  A pair of men may only lead an all boy cub pack.

This double standard of course did not start with the BSA, it came in from the outside,  but it is here now.

As a man I have this very small gnawing feeling that I am of less importance, less trusted, of a lower class then the women around me in the BSA.

7 minutes ago, oldbuzzard said:

The video is private/password protected for me.... 

Did it explicitly say 2 adults for boy dens vs 2 adults(at least one female) for girls dens on outings. Or, are we just assuming the old rules "still" apply to boy dens.

The simplest and in my opinion most likely explanation is that both genders of dens and the rest of scouting is moving to venturing rules with at least one leader of the same gender must be present for all attendees and National just hasn't gotten around to telling us yet or updating g2ss.

 

The password is:   F@mily4UnitLeaders

One life lesson every one needs to learn is you can't always get your way.  Sometimes you fail for reasons beyond your control.  

What are the rules these days? I think they are something like this:

Women are always victims.

Men and masculinity must change to meet women's needs.

Women will only be equal when they are considered exactly the same as men and, therefore, must be granted special safeguards from and privileges over men.

***(I do not like these rules, and I wish they would go away and women and men could be friends again.)
 

10 minutes ago, Tampa Turtle said:

Apparently the GSUSA matriarchy is exempt. 

Yes they are exempt, and they have cookies.    

No safe space for the patriarchy at any age!

15 minutes ago, CalicoPenn said:

Like the BSA, the Girl Scouts are also struggling with declining membership, and has been pretty much at the same time as the BSA.  Between 2015 and 2017, they lost approximately 800,000 youth members.  In the BSA, the current youth membership is approximately 2.3 million, down from 2.6 million in 2013 which means the BSA lost approximately 300,000 members since 0213.  The membership numbers don't seem to back up the idea that the Girl Scouts are doing better than the Boy Scouts. 

I love the Girl Scout program as in the activities that they offer the girls, I love the current Boy Scout program as well. 

But even with a great programs the Girl Scouts and the Boy Scouts both are declining.

I do not think the program is at fault.

I think kids have changed, the focus of a kids life is now a display screen, the scouting program is of no interest to most kids. They would rather just say home with there computer / phone screens. 

The world changes.

The few kids that do join scouting are very special kids  and should be valued for being different.

I see scouts using computers and phone screens more as important tools and not mindless passive entertainment like most kids.

The army is having a very hard time finding recruits that can get through boot camp,  the young men with bodies by XBox are just not cutting it.  

The BSA needs to make plans to continue to function as a much smaller organization. 

1 hour ago, Hawkwin said:

After reading this entire thread, and from being familiar with some of your posting history, I get the distinct impression that you are posting a topic that you don't believe in simply as a method to "rile up" the members of this board.

My Star Wars comments are 100% true, I was a fan of Star Wars and now I am done with Star Wars.

You are on point and correct about my YMCA post, that was complete sarcasm.  I believe 100% that if Girls want their own club they should be allowed to and the same for Boys.  I am HAPPY that the GSUSA is a Girls only club,  my daughter is now a member.  I am bummed at the direction that BSA is taking.

So yes, calling shenanigans, on my YMCA is the correct thing to do.