cocomax

These are questions my summer camp has been asking and so far they have not gotten any answers yet.

1. Are 18 to 20 year old scouters allowed to be merit badges councilors anymore?

2. Many merit badge sessions are inside buildings, if a male staff member is the merit badge councilor and there is a female scout in the class,  must a 21 year old female scouter be present?

3. If all merit badge councilors were female and over age 21 would this meet the new YPT requirements?

I really want to take, Wilderness First Aid,  I plan on taking it this year if possible.

As for Wood Badge, two weekends at camp taking wood badge would be fun for me,  being around other scouters and learning from them would be fun.  It is all the hazing, fighting, belittling and bulling between Wood Badge folks that follows for years to come that I do not want to be a part of. I do not want to ever be a part of any 45 minute beading ceremony that disrupts a camp fire program for the scouts.  If I were one of the ones getting the beads I would feel like garbage. Do I want to spend 18 months working hard on tickets only to be rewarded with the feeling that I am part of something that disrupts the scouts fun and sets bad example after bad example for the scouts? No thank you.  

It might just be my council is broken and Wood Badge is fantastic in other councils.  

I have seen with my own eyes a group of Wood Badge people telling another Wood Badge person that they needed to take Wood Badge again because they took wood badge before the year 2004 and that old version of Wood Badge is no longer valid.

I also have seen a group of Wood Badge people telling another Wood Badge person that they really need to retake Wood Badge, because the first time they took it their tickets were way too easy and should not really count and they should take it again and be serious about it this time and there is a Wood Badge person on staff that will help them write a REAL ticket.

I have seen a Wood Badge person berated for taking a Wood Badge course outside of our council and being told they need to take it again in our council to be considered a valid Wood Badge person in our council.

I have seen Wood Badge scouters told that because they have taken Wood Badge before 2004 they can not be part of Wood Badge staff or NYLT staff.

I have seen Wood Badge people completely enraged because a certain Wood Badge person that they can not stand was wearing 6 beads. These scouters were acting very un-scout like.

I know many Wood Badge people that are my good friends that are so done with current state of Wood Badge that they do not wear their beads anymore  and keep the fact they took Wood Badge a secret.  They are embarrassed to be associated Wood Badge in its current state in my council.

Most the people I know in our pack that have taken Wood Badge in the last few years changed directions in scouting from helping with the local cub scout and boy scout unit to being much more focused to being a district level scouter.  All the tickets that I heard about had something to do with district level activities.  I can not think of any positive impacts Wood Badge has had on our troop. 

One friend that took the course told me that to him, "The course was mostly about leading and managing adults and how to get the most out of adult volunteers, by using motivational tools such as creating a vision and loyalty to the BSA brand through tradition and nostalgia."  

I went on some cub scout hikes with a bunch of scouters on several of the special hike days.  There were many scouters that were in the obese range that did the 1 to 2 mile hikes and they had a very hard time, moving slow, breathing heavy,  getting light headed, and stopping to rest a lot and this was with no back pack.

Currently I am a heavy guy at 199 pounds and 6 foot tall, but also very strong for a 52 year old.  However, when I was 239 pounds  a few months ago I had tons of energy to move and I was not short of breath, the big problem that I did have was my legs would start to hurt really bad when I was going up hill. I just did not have the leg power to go up hill and keep up with the boys.  I had the energy, but the legs just would not work.  Now at 199 pounds I can run up the hills and my legs are fine.

You guys are right, some folks might look big,  but still be able to hike.  However many scouters I talked to have to push through a lot of pain to do a hike and it is not as fun an experience as it could be.

I know several scouters from summer camp that are in the 350 pound range and can barely make it across a parking lot without breathing hard.  

I was out looking on the web at bunch of wood badge group pictures and noticed it looked like very few of the people in the photos could do a 5 mile hike.

I feel really sad that these folks most likely will be missing out on one of the best parts of scouting, hiking.

The main problem is too many scouters are overweight.

In the last few months I dropped 40 pounds of weight, I went from 239 to 199 pounds,  I did so just so I can run up the hills with the boys and make back packing a piece of cake. I feel amazing. 

"Body-mass index (BMI) data collected from applicants for the 2010 National Scout Jamboree show that 41 percent of the youth were overweight or obese; among the adults, a staggering 77.5 percent were overweight, obese, or morbidly obese. But Scouting is determined to raise the bar by encouraging responsibility."

                                         Scouter Magazine

https://scoutingmagazine.org/2009/09/fat-chance/

I have taken over dens with no leader.

I made sure all the boys had a book. 

I would bring fun stuff for the boys to do with their hands and have several fun and active games for the boys to play.

I would make the meetings fun and relaxed,  just a group of dads and moms just having fun with their boys.

The boys would spend a lot of the time talking and interacting with one another while we did what ever we were doing. That was key to the boys having fun.

I would point out to the parents that we are doing this thing here from the book, on this page.

I would always be super cheerful and kind with everybody and make a point of having fun.

I made it look easy and fun,  because it really is.

I would drop a little hint, just one time.  "You know being a Den Leader is super easy and fun, if any of the parents here would like to take over I would be happy to had over the position of Den Leader to one of you. I will help you any time you need help with something."

With in 2 months I always had a Dad or Mom ask to take over has Den Leader. 

. . . and they always did a great job,  because they wanted to do it and their heart was in it, and I showed them how to be a good leader.

(I was training them to lead by example and in kindness)

23 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

Around here, the ceremonies typically follow a pretty typical flow.

A small group of Wood Badge staff attends the event.  It includes the Scoutmaster and usually the Troop Guide, ticket counselor, and a couple of other folks who were able to attend.  It kinda depends on the event and availability of the staff.

1. Event emcee introduces the course director.
2. Course director does a brief intro and explains what Wood Badge is.  The other staff introduce themselves.
3. The other staff who are there present the Wood Badge items: the neckerchief, woggle, & course certificate.  They’ll usually say a few words about their significance and history.
4. Course director presents the beads. 
5. Course director may add a few extra remarks and may present a few extra items.  Usually it will be something about person's ticket - particularly if it had an impact on the group at the beading.
6. The participant says a few words.

Ceremony is done.  It probably takes about 10 minutes.  If it's an event with Scouts, they generally try to move along quickly.  If it's done in front of a Wood Badge oriented group, they'll usually go longer - maybe tell some stories or something like that.  

Interestingly enough, I've seen a few done in front of Cub Scout packs where they'll go a little longer and explain things a little more for the cubs benefit - they seem to enjoy that from what I've seen.  Most Cub Scout packs might see a beading every 3-4 ears, so it's not a terribly common occurrence.  I get the sense that it's also kinda neat that the course director is often some really experienced Scouter who is comfortable in front of a group of Scouts.

Is 10 minutes too long?  Not sure.  I see the value of some ceremony here and I kinda like that they explain things like the neckerchief, woggle, and beads.

Wow!

I wish my district had your Wood Badge Folks,  your beading ceremonies sound very nice. 

At the last Camp-o-ree campfire I went to we had all the Wood Badge folks take the stage and sing 5 or so Wood Badge songs that none of the scouts know and most of the Wood Badge folks did not remember too well ether, then they gave out an award to a Wood Badge person, who then gave a 5 minute or so speech,  and then gave we all got a 10 minute or so Wood Badge recruitment talk.  All the boys and scouters were as quiet as could be and let them have their time. After all that most the Wood Badge folks then returned to their seats, but 15 or so stayed up front and moved just off stage. . .  and had a little reunion meet up, with loud laughter, jokes, loud talking, for them the campfire was over and it was time for fun and reconnecting with old friends . . .

. . . only problem was it was time for the OA Call Out Ceremony. . .  while the 3 flutes were playing off in the distance we all treated to the loud laughter and shenanigans of the Wood Badge crew up fount, they continued to be loud through out the OA Ceremony, making it very hard to even hear the names being called.  .  .

     It really took the air out of the OA Ceremony,  it was quite sad really.

     The boys notice things like this.         

53 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

I just get the sense that there's a thing in the Scouter community where it's considered an accepted practice to make fun of Wood Badge and those that have taken it.  I understand that many feel that they are justified in doing it.  It really just seems that somewhere along the way it has grown into something bigger than being rightly frustrated with some Scouters who have taken Wood Badge.

In my experience the only people casting Wood Badge in a very bad light are over zealous self focused Wood Badge folks that lack the self awareness of how they appear to people around them when behaving very badly while thinking they are touting Wood Badge.  The only people that I have seen actually making fun of Wood Badge folks, have been other Wood Badge folks, around here they have a hazing culture.  Wood Badge folks make other Wood Badge folks dance and sing to get back lost items.  I do not find such behavior helpful or amusing. I am not happy this hazing culture has also been imported into NYLT,  by the very same folks and being brought back to the troops by scouts that take NYLT. 

If Wood Badge has grown into something much bigger than just a training program, I would like to know exactly what it is.   I have been told during recruiting pitches that Wood Badge "gave me a life changing vision", "was a religious experience",  "it gave my life purpose and direction", "it was a mountain top experience", "the greatest thing that I have ever done in my life",  and "I got my Eagle".   

People showing such strong and heartfelt devotion to Wood Badge juxtaposed with the harshness, lack of self awareness and unkindness routinely displayed by the very same people leave me wondering what in the world is going on.

When I ask questions I am told that I really need to take Wood Badge to understand and because I have never taken Wood Badge I do not have the moral authority to question anything Wood Badge.      

What you are facing is normal, this is what almost all new scout troops face.  The boys need to be trained, before they can lead. The scout master is the key person that needs to get the SPL trained and up to speed.

There are some books that would really help your new scout master with some much needed insight, I suggest:

The Scout Masters Handbook

The Boy Scout Handbook

So Far, So Good!  A New Scoutmaster's Story  by Clarke Green

The Scouting Journey, by Clarke Green

The Scoutmaster's Other Handbook, by Mark A. Ray

I do not have any problem with the Wood Badge course,  or people taking Wood Badge.  Most my scouter friends took Wood Badge and it was just a training course to them and nothing more.

I have a problem with over the top Wood Badge recruiting that spoils a scout activity.

I have a problem with scout camp fires becoming surprise 45 minute long beading ceremonies.

I have a big problem with the way Wood Badge people haze and insult one another,  it is very un-scout like.
I have a problem with all the critter based sexual innuendo and inside jokes that sound like sexual innuendo that they use in front of the scouts.  

At the last Camp-O-Ree camp fire I went to the Wood Badgers ( a group of around 15)  managed to completely mess things up. . . in a way that I have never seen done before (they upset a lot of boys and scouters).   

The problem is some people treat Wood Badge as something more than a training course, when they really shouldn't.  

2 minutes ago, WisconsinMomma said:

We need more trained leaders, not fewer, and so taking any new leader though Wood Badge is going to give them more experience than they had.  

My WB experience was pretty clear in what we were doing.  Just because some people don't do well in WB is not a condemnation of the whole program. 

Back to the specific female Scouter who is struggling with patrol-led, perhaps one of the other female Scouters could form a friendship and mentor her?  Might not work but it's better than nothing? 

Why is it you feel a female scouter is needed to mentor her?  Do you see this as a female specific problem?

This is an honest question. I am really interested in your thinking on the matter.  

2 hours ago, Sentinel947 said:

So they utterly missed the fact that the staff is roleplaying the role of scouts and not adults? 🙃

Something seems to go haywire, too many wood badgers return and take over the role of acting SPL and wants to lead everything,  with flip charts and power point being the order of the day.

On the bright side they are super energized about scouting and are very proud to have "earned their Eagle" in wood badge.  

I have seen several women like this that have ended up going to wood badge and came back even worse.  They come back thinking the way the trainers at wood badge function is the way adults in a troop are suppose to function.

If you send a great scouter to wood badge, they will come back a even better scouter, I have seen that happen many times.

If you send a bad scouter to wood badge, you might create a monster with beads, I have seen that happen as well.

I have been really happy with the SnugPak Basecamp OPS Navigator, it is a 19 degree bag, it weighs 4 pounds,  and you can pick one up for $36.  If I ever get cold in my sleeping bag I just cover my sleeping bag with my SnugPak Jungle Blanket. The Jungle blanket also keeps me warm sitting around the camp fire on cold nights and when it is in its stuff bag it makes a great pillow. 

In my troop the grey beards sit out of the way and let the boys run things and only step in when asked by the boys for help or for safety reasons.

The boys run the program.

2 hours ago, WisconsinMomma said:

It's not the good old boy club anymore!  

I would have to agree with you,  you are right.

Around here it is more of a Mom's club than a good old boys club, the Moms have been doing a great job of running off the good old boys. 

Bring the whole family! (Parents are responsible for the supervision of their children)

I was told by someone from council that under the new family scouting guidelines parents are welcome to go on any scout outing they wish, because parents are welcome observers at all meetings and outings as they have always been. I was also told parents are welcome to bring any other family member, because we are now welcoming whole families into scouting.

I did see many young girls just hanging out at summer camp with their parents this year, so our summer camp is already being run as a family camp to some extent.

Also RVs and trucks were parked in the scout camp sites and I will see what looked like families having tail gate parties happening during the evenings at camp, I wish they would not have to play their music and TVs so loud.

One RV was running a very loud generator to power a microwave oven the parents had set up in the middle of camp.

Is this the new normal?

If that is what is being done at summer camp,  what is a simple weekend outing suppose to look like?

Is a 5 mile hike even possible anymore for most troops?  Many troops are here are already in family mode and only car camp, some are only day camping at the lake.

I am surprised at the rate that things are changing from "Boy Scout Troops" to "Saturday Family Tailgate BBQ Clubs (with easy mode scout style advancement)"

A lot of the mom's that I have been talking to love all the changes and love how they can now easily be part of their son's scouting program.  I have seen some mom's helping the scout cook their dinner and make sure they do everything correctly and don't make any mistakes. The super helpful moms even pack their sons camping suit cases for them.

The funny thing is most Girl Scout troops are run the same way. The mom's plan and do everything and the girls only get to help in small ways once in a while. The moms are happy and the girls are bored.

I know a few Girl Scout Troop that know how to scout and they are Greenbar Bill amazing because they have some old girl scouts leading things that know the old ways. It would be an honor to camp next to one of those Girl Scout Troops.

Many parents know that most boys quit scouting young so they push them hard to get eagle before age 14, so they can eagle out and check off a box on a college form later on. . . they never seem to blame the boring program the troop is running, they always blame the boys becoming more interested in girls and cars at age 15 as being the problem.  

It is really something to behold when you see a group of mom's take charge and run a scout camping trip. 

I  am seeing a lot of really happy moms and dads. . . and a lot of very bored scouts that mostly quit by age 14. 

I  think the group the BSA is trying hardest to cater to are moms, if they can make moms happy they can get the moms to put their kids into scouting.

. . .  and I think BSA is doing a very good job making moms happy. 

From Guide to Safe Scouting 2018:  Page 22

Family Camping
Family camping is an outdoor experience, other than resident camping, that involves Cub Scouting, Scouting, Sea Scouting, or Venturing program elements in overnight settings with two or more family members, including at least one BSA member of that family. Parents are responsible for the supervision of their children, and Youth Protection policies apply.

Family scouting is all about the WHOLE FAMILY going on outings and activities together.

So that moms and dads can spend more time together with their boys and girls in a scouting setting.

--------------

Julie Anderson has been there. Like most parents, she laments not being able to spend enough quality time with her two children, Ian and Samantha.

That’s why Anderson is such a fan of Family Scouting, the BSA’s push to welcome all members of the family into our life-changing movement.

Do you crave more time with your children and less time bouncing between drop-offs and pickups?

"She’s pumped to share the ways Family Scouting will appeal to moms and dads out there. It lets parents “take the whole family on outings and activities for scheduled fun family time,” she says."

https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2018/06/08/as-bsa-welcomes-families-into-scouting-some-councils-are-adding-a-family-scouting-director/

3 minutes ago, walk in the woods said:

Near the top of my newsfeed today, a website, designed to allow for anonymous accusations against young men.

A web site called "Make Them Scared"  okay. . . 

Well,  I am scared for my son and all young men that have to face this mess.  This is not a good thing for the whole human race, men and women.

This is life destroying levels of wrong. . . people making false reports should be punished, if they are allowed to get away with it things are only going to get worse.

https://triblive.com/local/regional/14142176-74/lawsuit-accuses-seneca-valley-mean-girls-of-targeting-teen-boy-with-false

My troop and I have never had any problems with girls running around our summer camp, I do not foresee any problems with girls at the camp in the future. 

All our camp problems have caused by ADULTS. 

.  .  .  last year we had a young adult male staffer show up in our camp most days at noon,  eat our food,  play music on his iphone  as loud as possible and then play video games on his switch and complain about how life sucks. . .   it was not much fun when he showed up. 

Last year I ended up walking behind a group of young girls at camp talking to one another, one said to the others, "You know what is wrong with this summer camp? . . .  there are way too many boys!"

I just thought that was funny.

Slavery is still the social norm. Just now a days it is fluffy and has a happy face.

When one person, or group of people, lays claim to the labor of another person without real consent or just compensation, often but not necessarily claiming the other person as a piece of property.  The government demands that people pay money to it, presumably using an implied threat of violence to ensure that they do.

If you earn money through your labors, and if another party unilaterally lays claim to that money without your consent, this implies that said party is laying claim to your labors without your consent you at at least in part a slave.

I am a wage slave to the Government, who takes 40% of all my labor under the implied threat of violence.

I do not really own the land that I live on, I must pay rent (property tax) to the true owner or they will come with guns and take their land back.