cocomax

Can you guys get https://beascout.scouting.org map and list to work?   On my computers it has been broken for weeks.

When I do a search for "Boy Scouts" on google beascot.scouting.org is one of the top search results, I go onto that page and it has lots of pictures of girls and talks about girls young women joining, it looks sorta like a girl scout page.

Then when I put my zip code in the "Find Scouting Near Me" I get a broken blank map and broken list view.

So the first thing someone using Google to find "Boy Scouts" finds when they go to the top official web site after entering their zip code is a broken map, a broken list view.

Has the BSA National just given up? Are they even trying anymore?

The worry is Boy Scouts will have to change to welcome anyone that is offended by a part of the program.

Making a path for atheists to take part in the program is fine.

. . . but removing God from the program, changing the scout oath and banning prayer and doing away with scouts own services is what many Scouters are worried will happen.

Yes, belief in God is a cornerstone of Scouting. As Scouters, we have a tremendous opportunity to reflect this core principle while helping teach respect for the beliefs of others in pursuit of doing our “duty to God.”

                                 Bryan Wendell ( Scouting Magazine )

We are in the end game now. They smell the blood in the water and know that BSA will fold.

Michael B. Surbaugh
Chief Scout Executive

Just sent me an email,  he says everything is going to be fine!

I could very easily run a girls BSA troop if I had girls that wanted to join, currently all the girls I know (including my daughter) want to be Girl Scouts and if I had one women that was willing to be there to meet the BSA YPT requirements. 

At this point I think I will just take my daughter and son and any other trustworthy friends that want to tag alone on long hikes without the mess and headache that is GSUSA.  . .

.  .  . go "scouting" without BSA or GSUSA. . .  just for the fun of it.

I have a  daughter that would love to go hiking with a scout group. I have been working with her GSUSA troop for the last year to make that happen and completely failed.

I have been talking to the moms and girls  in the troop about what they would think of going on a car camping trip or an overnight 5 mile hike.  I asked my daughter to talk to the other girls about it.  Well it seems none of the moms are interested in letting their daughters go hiking and are not really into camping. My daughter seems to be the only one interested in doing outdoor scouting stuff. I find it really strange, we live in the mountains, these are mountain girls and moms, but there is no interest hiking or camping, outside of my family.

Maybe GSUSA is delivering exactly the program that most girls and moms want.

If you took all the girls and moms from our GSUSA troop and put them in a BSA troop, they are all still the same people, they will not magically grow a love of camping and hiking.

I think the greatest road block to girl BSA troops going camping or hiking will be the YPT rules, we will just will not be able to field the adults needed to get the job done.

If my Boy Scout Troop, had to live under the YPT rules for girl BSA troops we would vanish like all the Venturing crews in my area have.  

I know girls in Girl Scout troops that would love to go camping and hiking, but can not because their leaders do not "do camping" and do not want to hike. . .

So I signed up as the Outdoors person with our local GSUSA troop and took the Outdoor training class only to be told afterward by the troop leader that "men are not welcome" on Girl Scout trips. . .

So I go out and find an old Girl Scout that hikes, in fact she did a 180 mile hike this last summer and she would love to take the girls camping or hiking. . .  that was a no go, the troop leaders did not like her and all Girl Scout Trips must include their leader, who does not camp or hike, she would not allow a group of registered GSUSA members take the girls anywhere without her..

So the troop for the last year mostly made drawings, colored with crayons, sang girrrrl empowerment songs, and sold cookies.

So. . .  I am waiting to see what happens when the BSA for girl troops start up. . . 

Will it be great with Outdoorsy women taking the role of scout master for these girls. . . 

or will the BSA for Girls suffer the same fate as GSUSA with leaders that will not camp or hike and then just fall back to the class room style advancement centered program that many troops cling to because check lists are the easy way to run things.

The weak spot will be the adult leaders of the girls and finding the right women that can do that job, it will be a hard job, a drama minefield. 

I don't know which way it will (mostly) go.  

1 hour ago, ParkMan said:

Perhaps not - but I do think we have to separate what "makes the GSUSA happy" from what the BSA can legally do.

I suspect for a long time - there will be people who will have to internally translate from "Boy Scouts" to "Scouts".  That's normal.  You could probably also just refer to is as "TPFKABS" (The Program Formerly Known As Boy Scouts)

But it has nothing to do with upsetting girls.  The very fact that people say this is about not upsetting girls is exactly why we need to change the name.  On Feb 1, 2019 the program is equally one for boys & girls.  It's not about upsetting the girls, it's about making it their program too.  By changing the name, it's a very clear statement that it's now a program for girls just as much as for boys.  It's not about upsetting girls, it's about welcoming girls with open arms.

 

The name change is not complete if we keep BSA!  If we keep the name BSA we are making the very clear statement that we are still really the "Boy Scouts of America" and that is not welcoming to girls at all. 

BSA has to change to something else,  the name BSA has a "B" but no "G", ether drop the "B" or add a "G" 

Ether SA or BGSA or GBSA is fine with me.

10 minutes ago, scoutldr said:

The official name of the Girl Scouts is "Girl Scouts USA"...I'm sure they wouldn't be happy.

Well, they are not going to be happy if everyone starts calling the "Boy Scouts" the "Scouts" after the girls join next year, which is what I see happening.

The general public does not use the term "BSA", I have not heard that once from the Public, that is a scouter term, just like SM,  ASM, PL and SPL.

The public will be politically correct and call the girls that are members of BSA by the term "Scouts".

They will really make the GSUSA folks very very super unhappy, because a new group of girls that the general public sees as "Scouts" are not going to be members of the GSUSA.

I think the general public will just use the terms "Scouts" and "Girl Scouts",  and I think they will know the difference.  They might say "Scouts" to be politically correct, but their brain knows they are really the "Boy Scouts" and that  girls can join the "Boy Scouts" now and that is cool, but we can not say "Boy Scouts" anymore because that will upset the girls.

Shouldn't BSA drop the name BSA? 

I mean someone might think BSA stands for "Boy Scouts of America"  and that might offend girls and is not very welcoming to girls.

Drop the "B" (Boy) from BSA and call it SA ( Scouts of America )  that way  people will think of SA as a scouting group for everyone.

Also, the A in BSA is pretty bad, I mean there is a North America and a South America,  America is not really the name of our country, I think we are appropriating the identity of counties that we have no right to, and that is a bit rude.   They should change the letter "A" in BSA to "USA", the actual name of our country.

So the scouting origination formerly know as Boy Scouts of America (BSA) should be renamed  Scouts USA. or "SUSA" for short and members of SUSA should be called "Scouts".

You're welcome.

What if the whole troop went?

How about a special Green Bar Bill Micro Camp-O-ree?

What if you had a weekend at a scout camp were several whole troops went to the camp, taking their own gear.
Send each troop an informational packet on the Green Bar Bill method of scouting and what the weekend is all about and make sure they are on board with the idea.

What if you had a Green Bar Bill expert embedded with each troop couching the scout master and SPL.

What if you had an afternoon of scout games for the patrols to have fun as patrols.

Have an amazing campfire planed by the scouts,  plus you could have the Green Bar Bill experts point out what was done right, maybe even give out a few awards.

All the adult leaders that went to this event should have a meetup at a later time (after the event)  and talk about their experiences as scouters and learn from one another. 

What if Girl Scouts started a Boys program called   Scouts GSUSA.  . . .

Then you saw flyers and videos and people talking about boys could now join Boy Scouts GSUSA units. 

Parents begin thinking Boy Scouts had join forces with with Girls Scouts to form something new called Scouts GSUSA.

When you call out that it is not cool that they are using the term Boy Scouts, because that belongs to the BSA they would say. . .

"Oh, no we are Scouts GSUSA! Sorry about the confusion, we will send out a powerpoint slide to tell everyone not to say Boy Scouts GSUSA."

. . . then parents, the general public,  and kids continue to call the new units of boys in Scouts GSUSA  "Boy Scouts" and you end up with units in the BSA and GSUSA both being called "Boy Scouts" by the general public. . .

     Would BSA have any problem with that?

3 hours ago, Hawkwin said:

 

18 hours ago, cocomax said:

I will be using these terms and completely avoid trouble:

BSA

BSA for Boys

BSA for Girls

Cubs

Cubs for Boys

Cubs for Girls

Venturing

So when talking to a group of boy scouts, your going to say, "hey BSA for boys, let's gather 'round to..."?

No, the above terms are for interfacing with the public on fliers, news stories and recruiting. I will use it for anything the GSUSA might see or hear about.

The way I speak to our troop has not changed at all.

I speak to the boys by their names or position in troop.  If I need to refer to everyone I say  "everyone" or "we".

"SPL,  what does everyone need to be doing right now?"

"SPL,  when do we need to leave?"

1 hour ago, Hawkwin said:

 

Still would have the issue of what we call the sc@&ts.

 

Sure would be interesting to hear just how close, or how far apart, both orgs were when they were originally discussing some sort of joint action that might have avoided all this.

Cue Rodney King...

I will be using these terms and completely avoid trouble:

BSA

BSA for Boys

BSA for Girls

Cubs

Cubs for Boys

Cubs for Girls

Venturing

I say just call it   BSA

A lawyer (Eagle Scout) goes over the lawsuit with a friend.

All scouters need to make sure they know the basics of scouting by heart, I am glad I took the UofS classes just to make sure I was not incorrect on some point or lacking on some other point.

All but one of the classes I took was taught by a new and nervous cub scout leader and consisted of her handing out copies of the class syllabus and then reading the syllabus point by point.  If anyone had a question they would have use reread the part of the syllabus that sort of covered that question or simply say "I don't know" or "that is not covered in this class".

We were told at the beginning of the classes that there was to be "no comments from the peanut gallery" because that would spread misinformation. 

I was fascinated by the whole thing,  watching the reaction of the students. I kept thinking, how did we get to this point in scouting, can this be made any more boring. 

On the bright, side I pretty much memorized the syllabus.

I think the best scouter training I have ever had has been the weeks that I spent at summer camp.  I also had the chance at camp to sometimes be the wise old scouter and pass on many of the interesting things I have learned about the game of scouting to scouters of all ages and experience levels.  

My goal is to know the current BSA rules and guidelines and then at the same time follow the lead of Green Bar Bill as much as possible and keep the game of scouting as fun as possible for both the boys and scouters around me.

The training classes are a good introduction to scouting, but they are only the beginning of the journey.

I have been with a troop for 9 years and a pack for 6, I have sat around countless camp fires talking to old time scouters about how to scout and I read every book about scouting I can get my hands on.  I am always learning, I always want to know more, I want to know how to do things better.  Every problem that comes up is a chance to learn something. 

Scouters can be trained to toe the line when it comes to political correct language. . .

But the boys, girls, moms and dads are going to be much harder to control, I can set an example, but I am going to be a very poor language policeman. 

I can see scouters referring to BSA girl troops as girl troops to be political correct, but the boys, girls, moms and dads will mostly refer to them as girl scouts.

The massive bolder BSA national has started rolling down the hill will not be slowed down much by a single power point slide.

15 minutes ago, Hawkwin said:

"Here in "Scouts BSA", we have girls only troops and boys only troops. Either way, your child will be joining the largest and oldest scouting organization in America."

Other than during recruitment, would there be a real need to tell someone you are talking about a girls troop vs. a boys troop? Even if there is a need, I am not sure there is a need to refer them as a boys (scout) troop vs a girls (scout) troop. It should already be clear that you are talking about Scouts BSA.

I see what you did there,

You can say girl troops and boy troops.

You can say girl only troops and boy only troops.

You can say Scouts.

You can say Scouts BSA.

just. . .   never mix the word Girl with the Scouts. . . ever. . . 

Got it.

Taking the Boy out of Boy Scouts seems to have caused a lot of trouble. . .

We saw this coming a mile a way and pointed it out.

They should have just called the girls program  "Boy Scouts for Girls".

What exactly am I suppose call girl Scouts BSA troops now?

By dropping "Boy" from the name "Boy Scouts" and forming a girls only program and keeping a boys only program we as scouters need some way to describe a troop as being a boys troop or a girls troop.  The most logical thing to do is to add the noun "boy" or "girl" in front of the new name "Scouts BSA" to tell people that I am talking about an all girl scout troop or an all boy scout troop. This is important to do when recruiting boys and girls to join a troop and this is also were we are going to get into a lot of trouble. 

The only label I have so far to label a new girl "Scouts BSA Troop", is  "girl Scouts BSA Troop".

 It is only logical that scouters will just use the shorthand of "Scouts" (and drop BSA) within their units, but will commonly refer to all "girl Scouts BSA troops" as "girl Scouts" and other all "boy Scout BSA" troops as "boy Scouts". 

 "girl Scouts BSA" almost sounds like "Girl Scouts USA" . . .

. . . and YES,  parents I have been talking to are very confused by all this, this is causing massive confusion already and the girl Scouts BSA units have not even started up yet. 

"So your daughter wants to join the Scouts?  Fantastic! Troop 116 over there is a boy Scout troop,  but troop 265 over there is a girl Scout troop, come with me and let me introduce you to the Scout Master."

Yes, we should have called it "Boy Scouts for Girls" and "Boy Scouts for Boys".

Calling it "Scouts" is a mess.

We have all boy "Scout" troops and will very shortly have all girl "Scout" troops.  Even though I mean that we will have "Scout" troops made up of all boys and "Scout" troops made up of all girls, it will sound like what I am saying is "Boy Scout Troop" and "Girl Scout Troop".