Eagle1993

We haven't been doing great working with our packs. In the past, the Pack leaders were much more responsive to our invites but recently most kids are dropping before getting to Boy Scouts. So, this is a bit of a Hail Mary. If we fail to recruit by fall 2025 our Troop will likely fold. Also, we have gone from 4 feeder packs 4 years ago to 1 this coming fall. 3 of the 4 packs have folded.

As a Troop, we have seen massive losses before crossover, so we are looking to pilot running the 5th grade AOL program. Our plan is to hold AOL meetings concurrently with Troop Meetings had have our Troop Guide and a ASM run the den meeting. Basically take over for the den leaders. Not sure if it will work, but we figured it can't be worse than what has been happening the last 3 years.

Most of the best Troops and Packs in my area have older scouters involved. One major issue is that there appears to be less willingness to volunteer the massive amount of hours scouting requires from the upcoming generation of parents. One Troo I talked with mentioned that in the past there was some competition over who would be Scoutmaster and now parents want a program but don't want to volunteer. This may be a N of 3-4 and may not be widespread, but I get the sense that BSA sees a problem. Simplifying programs could be beneficial but could also lead to some really bad outcomes. I hope for the best but I respect Mike and if he is concerned I am as well.

18 Eagle required MBs can be done fully/nearly fully indoor while 4 (cooking, camping, hiking and cycling) have substantial outdoor requirements. BSA lost me on "scouting is outdoors" when they added Citizenship in Society merit badge. Most of my Eagle Scouts have said Wilderness Survival should be Eagle Required but yet BSA went with another discuss/research/report type badge. In addition, my Troop was the only one to camp outdoors during our recent district's Klondike. In the past the Patrols camping outdoors would be awarded more points...not this year. In fact, the Patrols who did cabin camping were able to work on sled decorations (earning trail points) and eat in the dining hall while my patrols cooked their own their own meals outside. They were happy to campout but clearly the pressure and awards are emphasizing indoor cabin camping. Heck, look at summer camps and the near complete loss of patrol cooking options. We struggle to find camps that support outdoor patrol cooking. BSA may say outdoors but their program, district and councils are all pushing more activities indoors (and in some cases away from the patrol method). Their advertising looks great but not aligned with 90% of what BSA has become.

Also, I do expect BSA may look to update their charter. The boy club officially updated their charter to the boys and girls club when they added girls.

I think there is near zero chance GSUSA sues. I believe they claimed they spent 3-5 million in litigation last time and received nothing from BSA. I expect BSA lawyers, who won the last TM lawsuit, made sure Scouting America was litigation proof.

If they plan to make a change, now is the time. I'm tired of the drip, drip, drip of change causing constant controversy. Get it over with at once or never change it for 10+ years. I'm concerned that they will save this change for 2-3 years from now just when people have finally accepted the name change.

And then you join and realize 90% of BSA activities are meetings and merit badge clinics where you have to write reports while adult leaders argue if googling information for your report was sufficient or if you should have used an Encyclopedia written in 1982.

Baby Steps of America.... I expect we were headed to coed all along.

Name changes and minor program tweaks won't make a significant impact. I'm seeing a complete collapse of scouting in my area. Multiple Packs ending, others seeing limited growth. Multiple Troops in my area are also near collapse. Summer camps, camporees are losing attendees. The answer from National... A name change? I think the change is fine, but hopefully I hear about their plans to reverse the decline.

From Facebook An announcement was made today during the BSA National Annual Meeting regarding Scouts BSA. The BSA has received feedback through member surveys, councils, and other sources that have encouraged a third option be made available to serve youth and their families interested in Scouting. This option would be a “combined troop” option to help serve all youth and families that wish to participate in Scouting guided by the Scout Oath and Law. The National Executive Committee (NEC) has authorized the Scouts BSA Committee to conduct a limited pilot from September 1, 2024, through July 2025. The Scouts BSA Committee will collect feedback from participants and make a recommendation based on the data on the program to the NEC in 2025. More information will be forthcoming. Thank you for your service to Scouting and for providing every young person and their family with the opportunity to participate in Scouting’s life changing programs.

Scouts SA already exists (Australia)... I wonder what the plan is...

@BinTharDunThat Welcome to Scouter.com. 1) I would expect they likely met with GSUSA before this announcement and hopefully came to some agreement. 2) Ugh So Boy Scouts went to Scouts BSA and now Scouts SA?

Are there council mergers being announced?

The school board found a way to get kids to read books ... announce that they are banned. I would think BSA would be fine accepting controversial Eagle Scout projects. One of our youth did a project for an organization that provides housing for primarily LGBTQ youth who were abused at home. That said, there was a clear benefactor and and the project wasn't directed against any political group. So, I could see a way for a project like this could work in the BSA, but not in the manner it was conducted as a Gold project.

I would lead with: 1) Is the PLC running the Troop well? 2) Are new scouts <2 years integrating well into the activities and patrols. 3) Are AOL scouts attending any meetings and outings and has that gone well? I think the other items are fine, but some should also come from committee members themselves (advancement chair, etc.).

Looks like Blackberry (RIM) stock price. I expect BSA numbers will be similar. I still believe in scouting but a lot has to change for it to grow again and I don't think those changes will happen.

Coed camping already occurs with venturing and Packs. So, we are really only talking about adding coed camping for 11, 12 and 13 yo. In addition, coed camping exists in those ages as linked Troops share camping sites all the time, including at BSA events. Clarification... When I say coed, I mean boys and girls camping at same site. Now, if you mean in the same tent, I agree that won't happen for a long time.

Perhaps it is just my highschool, but as a parent of a teenager I have to say expectations of what teens must do far exceed what was expected of teens 20, 30, 50 years ago. First, they are expected to take college level courses in high school. When I was a kid, I took 2 AP courses, now ... If you want any chance to get selected by a highly selected university you need at least 8. Plus you need to have nearly perfect grades and an ACT/SAT that is very high. Then look at sports. When I was a kid you can simply walk on to most teams and the sport lasts the season. Now, the best teams are not even at high school and nearly all teams except you dedicate yourself to that sport all year (and expect to travel). Add in the expectation you also have a job, volunteer, become president of a couple of clubs, etc. Free time for far too many kids is rare. They are jumping around from studying for an AP test to travel baseball to mock trials, etc. Participation trophies are a thing in the past. My kids participated in years of various sports, never received a trophy and were told they were no good for travel and should simply quit. As a parent of a couple of kids today I think the lazy argument is that kids today are babied. Actually, in many ways, I think kids today are abused. Expectations are far too high and many sacrifice childhood to become mini adults at age 9. The kids that don't are left feeling like they are failures. It's incredibly sad. Scouting is the one organization where you are not judged if you are not the "best" at something and you don't leave feeling like you failed life just because you didn't ace an AP test while also throwing a baseball in the mid 90s at 16. I honestly think that is why we need scouting more than ever. It allows kids to try a variety of activities, fail, learn , have fun and just be kids. Everything else is rushing them into adulthood.

I just completed a scouting survey. It included standard questions and asked for recommendations. It has additional questions for Scoutmasters that dug into collecting feedback about how girls troops are run (are they really independent or integrated and if integrated how integrated are they). It then had questions about recommendations if BSA should consider coed Troops and if they were coed, how integrated should the integrated Troops be managed. Hopefully this is really a survey to get input before decisions but I know that is not always the case. However, I can say that BSA must be at least considering changing how girls are integrated. FWIW, I recommended allowing coed Troops but keeping girls patrols. I felt like that would open up scouting to more girls but still allow some space for coharts to bond.

I will say for my company, DEI has gone well (overall). There are a few times where I think it went sideways, but overall we have greater pools of talent for hiring, our profits have increased substantial over the last few years and year end bonuses are the highest they have ever been. Personally, I have been happy with my career progression. When I hire, I have never been pressured to hire an under or unqualified candidate. If someone quits because they are against diversity, inclusion or equity... So be it. I haven't seen many people quit my company and definitely no one with talent that is not easily replaced.

I know probably the best employee at our local council is gay. He was promoted and I didn't know he was gay until after he left. The council is worse off after he left. If DEI helps us get employees from more walks of life and expands the pool of talent, I don't see it as a negative. If it is used to push out people than I have an issue with it. I think how an organization handles DEI is really what is important. I'm not an employee of BSA so I'm not sure how they are using it.

What is the hidden message? I do think there are more girls and gay scouts than there were in the past (so in part it is working). I'm not sure about other groups.

To expand scouting beyond those who typically participated?

My district dropped 9% from end 2022 to end 2023, we only post 2.5% end 2021 to end 2022. In the past 2 years we lost 16% of our Troops and more are near the end. Packs and crews are roughly steady.