Eagle1993

We have a lot of members stuck prior to Scout due to this Cyberchip requirement.

1. As an individual or with your patrol, use the EDGE method and to teach Internet safety rules, behavior, and “netiquette” to your troop or another patrol. You are encouraged to use any additional material and information you have researched. Each member of the patrol must have a role and present part of the lesson.

In general, the Cyberchip is the primary reason we end up with some backlog.   The other requirements are easy and can occur at nearly any outing.  Cyberchip also requires watching videos at home that tak an hour or so plus creating a contract with your parents.   To me, this should be a Tenderfoot or even Second Class requirement.    Let’s keep focus on basic scout skills and Patrol structure for scout rank.
 

When I’ve talked with the scouts, all already cover internet safety in school, and they said the videos are outdated and goofy.  The only valuable portion is going over the Troops electronic device policy.

This topic came up after a recent PLC.  My son just crossed over to the Troop this spring and I was asked to be SM.  After refusing multiple times I reluctantly accepted.   The first PLC meeting three adults were present (CC, a very experienced ASM and me).   We sat at a table next to the scouts. 
 

After the meeting, I mentioned that I thought in general the scouts were very quiet.  In addition, the one topic they talked about, asking for a change in electronic policy, their idea was shot down the the CC immediately.  They asked me for some clarification and I had to correct some errors the CC made in his argument.

I talked with the CC after the meeting and suggested we sit in a far off area, out of ear shot.  The SPL can come over if needed, but in general we would come over for the last 10 mins to close out any discussions.  The CC didn’t agree and that ended the conversation.

Your point that scouts act differently when adults are around is 100% correct.  I remember as a youth this is true and can see it as a new SM.  Unfortunately, some adult leaders who claim units are youth led are afraid of actually allowing a youth led unit.  

Rough numbers.  We have about 25,000,000 boys in scouting age in USA and about 2,000,000 members today... so about 8%. If 10% of LDS remain that would roughly be consistent with other groups.   

1 hour ago, Thunderbird said:

Summer camp where I am at is around $400 per Scout.  The cost for adults varies, but can be around $275 per adult.

My area, summer camp is just under $400 but a one week YMCA overnight camp is over $800 (but they ask those that can afford to pay the true cost $900).  In terms of overnight week long camps, BSA summer camps are a great value in my area and there are scouts I seem to only see during summer camp.  Many parents are dual income and look to sign their kids up for week long camps throughout the summer when school is out. 
 

Hopefully this increase will be the end for a while.  I do think some of my intermittent  Cub Scouts may drop as the fees continue to increase.

At our pack meeting last night, several parents started talking that they don’t want to bail out the BSA from their past sins (sex abuse).  The discussion came up as I had to stop parents paying registration fees until we hear from National BSA.

It will be a tough message if they see a large fee increase tied to anything related to creating a victims fund.  I mentioned insurance and they scoffed.  A couple parents told me their sons play football and they sign waivers as the football teams no longer have insurance for head or neck injuries.  I mentioned health insurance and they pushed back saying they have their own health insurance and don’t need it from BSA.  
 

These parents can afford it (median income in my area is 6 figures) but they don’t like the idea of paying for overhead or items they don’t see any benefit.  For example, many paid $100 for an outing we went on with no pushback, but they would be upset to be charged $25 in additional fees if they don’t see a value in return.

I’m a bit pessimistic.  

More wealthy families no longer see scouting as critical to their children’s success and they don’t see how scouting can fit in their schedule between mandarin classes, coding clubs, sports and music.

Middle class families are being priced out with national, council and camp fees.  Yes, there is fundraising, but scouting is not about fundraising and if that takes up considerable time just to pay registration fees you’ll lose interest.

Lack of quality new volunteers is my biggest concern about long term health.  Several Troops in my area are led by older scouters who would like to back down, but they cannot find parents willing to take on the work. 

Public schools seem to be at best, agnostic to BSA.  LDS loss willl be a big blow.  Fraternal lodges seem to be in decline as well (Moose, Elk, etc. are shutting down in my area).  

National needs to focus on what is the core mission of the BSA, help reduce overhead on volunteers outside that core mission and market it.  Scout Me In was a swing and miss.  Clarify how scouting is unique, fun and important to youth development and market that.

I don’t see that happening, I see the opposite which is driving my concern.

I’ve seen some rumors on FB coming out of the Alaska region; however, I’m not sure what to believe.

My parents are pretty smart.  If they greatly increase fees to while not declaring bankruptcy it seems like simply throwing money into a bottomless pit.  If they are facing such a large fee increase, they need to declare bankruptcy.  

Yes, BSA national fee is cheaper than other activities; however, that fee doesn’t pay for uniforms, facility rentals, camps,  equipment, outings, etc.  In our relatively inactive pack our annual cost per scout is in the range of $170 above the fee ... excluding $140 for day camp.  Scouts BSA is much greater than those numbers.

But I guess we can simply sell more popcorn.

We received a note from our council that states the BSA is looking at its options regarding financial restructuring to appropriately support those affected by abuse in the Scouting program. Any decision on this will likely come in October or November.  (I think this clarifies what our CE said at round table).

So while insurance and loss of members may be driving the fee increase, it looks like they have to delay any announcement until the consider the totality of the situation including financial restructuring. 

53 minutes ago, ParkMan said:

successors

Uh oh....  😬

Last fee increase was $9.  Not that we allow gambling, but if we did, I’d place a large wager on the over.   

Delaying an announcement of a fee increase until Nov makes no sense.  Pull the board together tonight and vote on it.  If the internal debate is between a massive fee increase and bankruptcy then declare bankruptcy.  No fee increases will cover the massive lawsuits on top of our current tenuous financial situation.  Laying the financial burden of the failures of the past on the backs of parents of your current membership is wrong.  Fees are a small part of the total cost of the program... I know there are fundraisers, but there are limits.

Now, if this is a small increase, get over with it and let us know now.  

Last time they raised fees, they let us know early Sept.  That was late but at least before recruiting.  Why do they need to wait until Oct 23?  This doesn’t make sense at all unless they are considering other options.   

This sounds bad...  if they have to setup a fund to help some cover the fee increase, it probably will hurt a bit.

https://mailchi.mp/bsamail/important-scouting-news-please-read

“There’s a form for that!”

Under section 7.0.0.2 Merit Badge Program

In the event unit leaders or other volunteers discover that any merit badge counselors are not following mandated procedures regarding the use of blue cards or working with the requirements as they are written, they should complete and submit to the council advancement committee the Reporting Merit Badge Counseling Concerns form (found in the appendix) . Unit leaders should regularly review the policies and procedures related to the merit badge process with Scouts, parents, guardians, and leaders, and counsel them on proper methods as the need arises.

We still use blue cards.  Our camp sends us a file of electronic blue cards with signatures... we then print and cut out and sign blue cards to keep records.  My hands are still aching with over 120 MBs earned at camp.

Our council did say the paper advancement reports will stop very soon (we use those as well) so I wouldn’t be surprised if they stop using blue cards and switch to Scoutbook only.  We plan to use blue cards until BSA makes an official call.  Scoutbook is nice for advancement records; however, it doesn’t work well when you are remote and outside... paper blue cards work everywhere.

I actual do practice the no 1 on 1 contact outside of scouting. There was a case where my son was going to work on a model train with an adult.   They were going to be the only two in his home so I stayed.  Yes, 99.99% chance nothing would happen, but I just couldn’t get that 0.01% or less chance out of my head so I stayed. 

I also avoid 1:1 contact with youth who are not my own.  That is to prevent any possible false accusations.  

I think in general, the no 1 on 1 rule makes sense in cases outside of scouting.

Now two deep would be nice, but I wouldn’t cancel my son’s sleepover if my wife is out of town.  

9 hours ago, yknot said:

Does YPT allow any known perpetrator of child abuse, sexual or otherwise, to participate in scout activities or have access to scouts? No. Just because a perpetrator of FGM doesn't have a scalpel in hand at a camp fire doesn't mean it's appropriate for him or her to be there. One could also say a child pornographer is relatively harmless without a camera in hand, but it's pretty clear YPT precludes inviting one to a camp fire. 
 

FGM is legal, those other references are not.  Note that your point could also easily be used agains doctors who provide abortion services as many consider abortion murder.  It’s a slippery slope.  I would go with the law when looking at banning parents.  In terms of leaders, I would have no issue preventing him from being a leader is the COR and CC are uncomfortable with him serving in that role.

I keep hearing these great examples of GSUSA groups on great adventures.  However, nearly every GSUSA parent that talks to me in my area claims GSUSA troops begin to collapse after elementary school.  

Examples of a Troop of 19 5th grade girls disappeared in 6th grade when the leaders left and no alt Troop was provided.  Juniors in high school who’s Troops died while they were looking to close out on their Gold rank (one gave up the other is working on it without a Troop).  

  GSUSA summer camps for elementary school members are much better than BSA’s in my area, but it seems like those huge membership numbers and energy fades after youth turn 11.  How common is it for GSUSA troops to last into High School?

1 hour ago, yknot said:

Again, a problem with the logic. This man is talking about a Cub Scout Pack, where parent participation is required. You are arguing that YPT only applies to leaders? Under your scenario, you would allow a parent who does not meet YPT guidelines to attend camp outs and outings with scouts? I see a clear conflict there.  

Define what in YPT policy would be violated having this parent attend an overnight?  

I do not see that children would be in danger being around this doctor.  I do see individuals attempting to take revenge on a doctor who they disagree with his practice.  What is the end goal?  To alienate a doctor and the community who uses him or to reduce FGM?

In the end, his child did nothing wrong and given that he is not a threat then I see no YPT issue.   Let the kid and his dad in the pack. 

  If the goal is reducing FGM you might want to consider this article 

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/04/female-genital-mutilation-cutting-anthropologist/389640/

2 hours ago, yknot said:

I'm confused by some of the logic here. It seems to directly conflict with YPT. We don't tolerate individuals who have sexually abused boys, even if a case has never made its way through the courts, yet we should tolerate someone who has sexually abused girls? This seems like a double standard, not a matter of cultural tolerance. 
 

That is typically regarding leaders.  This is discussing banning a parent who isn’t even accused of breaking a law.  

I assume the situation is that some parents took their daughters to him and he performed the mutilation.  I would ask my COR to prevent him from being leader.   Outside of that I would let his child join the pack.   If he wants to attend events with his child (and is legally allowed to) I wouldn’t stop him.  While I don’t agree with his actions I would not want to punish the child and I don’t see him as a threat to children of parents who would not bring them to him. 

57 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said:

 

Perhaps CE will become a volunteer's position?  

He made it clear the council will not be impacted.  😀  

My DE said they know nothing more than what the council exec stated. Main point was that our camps, FOS and product sales income will not be impacted.  It was the first time we did not hear “may” inserted and an idea of possible timing.  However, it is only one CE at one council in one meeting.  I’ll be interested if others are hearing anything similar.

He also talked about the lawsuits and emphasized that BSA believes in the victims and wants them to come forward.  

We haven’t seen our council fee yet either, but have set our pack and Troop fees.  We plan to eat the delta.

I was told by our CE, during a recent round table, that National BSA will be announcing a “financial restructuring” within a week or two.  Perhaps we will hear of 2020 fees then.  

These went from a nicotine patch alternative to a new drug delivery system.  Absolutely... should be treated same as Tobacco. 

Talk About Scouting! ...public group, probably my favorite of the bunch

There are a couple of others focused on girls in BSA.  One of them is heavily moderated with posts from National BSA employees

US Scouting Service Project provides some semi official announcements

There are others as well

Unfortunately (or fortunately) I can’t access FB now to send you links,  I’m in China, but searching the above will lead you to the sites.