Eagle94-A1

On 7/1/2025 at 9:58 AM, Double Eagle said:

As for recruiting, word of mouth is the most successful recruiting tool.  Have scouts wear Friday class B shirt if they are willing.  All year round is cool, as our older scouts wear their philmont, OA, and jamboree shirts to show them off. 
 

word of mouth is how we recruit since we do not have a Cub pack. Everyone has either transferred from a unit they did not fit in with, or had a friend in the troop.  Problem is instead of helping existing units survive, council is focused on starting new units. T-shirt is a good idea. Since buying custom shirts is cost prohibitive with such a small number, troop purchased everyone a Camp Cherokee T shirt.

as for taking a break, tha will happen in September with band season hits. We will meet, and possibly do some fundraising. Next month is a white water trip,

Thanks folks. I am at camp, Cherokee Scout Reservation in NC, and am exhausted and sweaty. But also in a much better morale situation. So I am just getting a chance to read and respond.

On 7/1/2025 at 9:58 AM, Double Eagle said:

The first advice is grab a unit, ADC, or district commissioner for assistance. 

They are now aware. Sad thing is there are units in worse shape in the district.  We are considered “healthy.”

On 7/1/2025 at 9:58 AM, Double Eagle said:

As for camping short-termed issue,  speak with the camp director about a provisional status that you can share a site with another troop and share adult coverage.  With the number of scouts you have, it should be doable.  Swapping leaders half week is common.  The late notice cancellation and physical is terrible news and you shouldn't have to personally pay for it.  

. We were able to get a second leaser. And physical he paid for. going Provo was going to be my emergency plan c.

National's computer system use a 4 digit code for units. if memory serves if the starting number is 3 is the national code for Cubs; 0 is the national code for boy troops, 5 is the national code for Ships,  and 6 is for Crews. I do not think there was a national consensus for girl troops as in my area 7 designates girl troops.

One of the things that set this sentiment off yesterday, is I got a call from our 2nd summer camp adult asking if it was possible to either get a replacement, and when I told him that might not be possible, or only come for half a week. Guy has known for several months that it was just going to be me and him, and was reminded a few weeks ago. While his physical states he has no limitations, he didn't tell his MD he was going to summer camp. And with the issues he is having, he should not be going to camp at all IMHO.

I may have a replacement, pending getting registered.  But to do that, the troop is paying his registration fee, normally adults and scouts are responsible with fundraising paying for supplies and camp outs. And I am paying for his physical at an immediate care since he cannot see his PCP before we leave Sunday. This made me realize that without adequate adult support, we cannot have the program the Scouts want. They want to go whitewater rafting. They want to go backpacking. They want the adventure. But If we cannot get 2 adults over 21 to do them,  is it worth keeping the troop alive to say we are alive? I do not think so.

After summer camp, I want to meet with our COR. past SM, and if he is willing the CC (CC is ticked off at a decision I made. Stated he will no longer go camping with the troop, and has not been to any meetings, including one where 2 BORs were being held). Topic will be to fold the troop. I know the immediate SM's response ( whatever you decide I am fine with) and the CC's response ( Hell no we are not folding).  But I want the COR involved in this, and to come up with a plan either way. The point may be moot anyway if we do not get a 5th Scout before December.

Sadly, the CO has a number, and all units associated with that CO: Pack, Troops, Ship, or Crew would have the same number. CC, and COR would need to crack down on the girls unit.

 There are a few cases where the CO has multiple numbers, but those are rare.

52 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

If you have no other options, discreetly find a good home you can recommend to your Scouts, and get them transitioned there ASAP.

I believe I have found a good home for them. The troop has a similar philosophy regarding advancement, and they have an active Cub Scout pack.. So they have  future. And their program is strong. Talking to the UC, that unit and ours were not the ones he was worried about, until I told him the situation. The reason for waiting until the end of the charter year is that we do have some money to spend in the unit account, and I do not want that money going to council. Under the new Charter Agreement, they are supposed to get that money, and they put us into this position. I really want the money to stay with the church in the hope they can restart the troop in the future.

52 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Recommend you not wait until the Troop does not recharter, then do the transfers... that could cause a break in continuity that may cause some to drop all together.

I didn't think of that, and that is a good point. We will probably end a month before recharter, as we have an activity planned that no one will want to miss. 

I have been fighting this battle for some time. The troop is now down to 4 active Scouts. Council will not help with recruiting, I have asked them for help, and was told no. Then they  wonder why we have not participated in council sales or do FOS.. Trying to plan next year, and 2 prime camping months are taken up by an activity 3 of the members are in. Plus there will be last minute stuff popping up causing us to postpone, or even cancel trips. This year we were lucky, but last year we had to cancel multiple trips. And finally we have are starting to have a challenge with having enough adults. All of the adults have some health issues, and also limits what we can do. And I was just informed today that my second adult for summer camp may not be able to make it. We leave Sunday. I will be having a more detailed conversation tonite.

I'm tired and burnt out with the troop.

And I am also very frustrated with the council. I used to be active on the district and council level. When they needed something, and I was able to help, I did. Heck they told me I was in charge of an event with 60 days get it up and running. And now they cannot help us with recruiting. And before you say we are responsible, we have done everything we could. In fact I have recruited more girls for the only girls troop. But worse is that they are upping the council fees. In addition to the national charter and registration fees, council is now charging each Scout an additional $50 council fee, and each unit $112.50 PER SCOUT council "fair share" fee. We have families that need help, and they keep adding fees. 

I think once the charter is finished, so is the troop.

49 minutes ago, DuctTape said:

We often lament the lack of District and/or Council personnel (including commissioners) involvement at the Unit level. 

Biggest problem in my neck of the woods is that no one wants to deal with council. Folks are burnt out or frustrated.

We had two bright-eyed new volunteers assume a district level position, and within 12 months resigned. They were overworked.

We have had pros overrule volunteers on events, i.e. multibooking a location, not ordering enough supplies, or  not even ordering supplies at all.

We have had volunteers try to do camp improvements for events, and told "NO." Then the site is not ready.

We had volunteers removed from their position when they question the pros, i.e  Why did council take $40K earmarked for the OA to do camp improvements for Conclave and put it in the general fund as a FOS donation.

And we had volunteers yelled and screamed at by pros.

And when folks do ask for help from council, they are told no.

3 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Is your training status in my.scouting showing you as not trained?

Correct. Even though Scoutmaster Fundamentals never expires, it  is no longer considered a code for "Trained Status." I forgot as a Key Three I can add the missing training. So I added the date of the last time I taught the Scoutmaster Specific class. Problem fixed.

3 hours ago, RememberSchiff said:

1. The SM/ASM required training appears glaring incomplete both from an official/legal and an outdoors/adventure standpoint.

2. Course duration appears so short as to question content and usefulness.

Trained for what exactly?

My $0.02,

1. Understatement. IOLS has left out a lot of info in older HBs and FBs. Last time I taught IOLS, the syllabus left out so much information, that I had handouts on additional information from older HBs and FBs. And the last syllabus I looked at took out even more information! I do not know who is creating training content, but they need to look at Green Bar Bill's work.

2. I too question the usefulness. 1:30 total for SM Training! When I did SMF, the Troop Meeting section, which is now 10 minutes long, Was an 90+ Minutes as it simulated an actual troop meeting with Pre Opening, Opening,  Instruction, Patrol Meeting, Inter-patrol Competition, and Closing.

1 hour ago, RememberSchiff said:

Is training leaders to deliver the Program about learning process or preparing for adventure?

IMHO, it is more about process than preparing for adventure. Which is a mistake. Scouts want adventure.

Registrar was of little help. Said they could not find my training sheets from when I taught. And they wanted proof i actually taught the course. And my copy of training records is MIA. I believe oldest transferred them to storage when he built my current computer..

@skeptic, remind me of a friend who is a longtime Scouter.  His records went MIA, and he not only taught courses at the council level, but was also PTC faculty.

For those who need a TEMPORARY fix. It ain't perfect, but it may do.

Forgot to add, 

under "to"

FULL NAME AS ON APPLICATION ( in big font)

(skip 2 lines)

         Troop 123 ( in small font)

Well I'm "UNTRAINED" again. Even though Scoutmaster Fundamentals has "No expiration date." This despite the fact I taught the SM Specific class multiple times when I was district Training Chair.

To the folks who came up with the idea of getting rid of SMF, I will quote one of my districts long serving volunteers, "I've forgotten more about Scouting than you ever learned, and I still know more than you do."

A temporary solution I have done is take an image of the certificate I found online, and edited it. Not perfect, but works until the real certificates come in.,

53 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Very doubtful this safety pause will affect Summer Camp activities... they know where their bread is buttered 😜 

That is true. I remember when they attempted to change the old YP rules, which allowed 18-20 year olds to be considered as a 2nd adult, to the current policy of only 21 year olds count. National made the policy effective March 1, 2018, but there was so much push back from local councils, and the HA bases, where units already planned for their 2nd adult to be 18-20, and they wanted their money back if they had to cancel. National pushed the implementation date to September 1, 2018.

To quote Han Solo, and many others, " I got a bad feeling about this."

BSA never does things rapidly. And BSA has never shut down all shooting sports activities at one time due to an accident. Even with the Hawaii death, they did not shut down all activities.

I agree with @Jameson76

My advice is to take your time, feel out the other Scouts and adults, before suggesting change. Get to know folks, their strengths and weaknesses, before you trying to change anything. And be polite and courteous when making suggestions. And most importantly, listen to their responses.

As a Scout, and later as an ASM, I hated, emphasize HATED, when new adults just joined the troop and tried to change things. Worst case was a bunch of adults who transferred from Cub Scouts, and wanted a continuation of Cubs. No amount of explanations, discussions, meetings, or even training would change their minds. The COR had to intervene to fix the matter. But it was too late for one family that transferred out.

Once you get to know them, if you can get the older Scouts behind your ideas, and a few other adults, you can try your ideas.

Varies.  If we have new folks 5 miles/day. Last year, everyone had done the AT trip previous, so it was about 7 miles day one and 3 miles day 2 It was more of a new gear shakedown than anything.

Units plan their own canoe trips. 25 year ago, a local company gave a VERY generous donation to a CO for bunch of canoes and a trailer. HOWEVER, the caveat was that the CO had to share the canoes with any unit in the district.  So canoes, trailer paddles, PFDs, etc are covered. 

• Where are you canoeing?                              Tar River, Neuse River, French Broad

• Where are you skiing?                                    Water skiing is good at any lake or sound. Jordan Lake, Pamlico Sound,
• Where are you finding a good klondike derby?               What's that.
• What does your unit plan for any higher adventure first class and up scouts if some of these are too extreme for new scouts (not BSA HA, just more intense than state parks and light hikes, such as backpacking/climbing/rafting)

          backpacking= Grayson Highlands, and the AT. with prep trips at Uhwarrie and other places with backpacking. And we take everyone who has done a prep trip in the past, so if a new Scout want to try backpacking, they can do a prep trip and go (We had one do the prep trip, said he needed to get in shape and missed the first trek. He got in shape and did it the next year.

Whitewater=  National Whitewater Center ( Scouts had more fun there than on an actual float) Nantahala Outdoor Center has been our go to for actual floats.

Thank you for the words of encouragement. Much needed.

Weekend was a camp out, and he needed a lot of help from adults and others. Plus he has a hard time listening to his PL and APL. I overheard  dad telling him he only needs to listen to the adults. I kept telling him ask his PL for those things the PL could handle. Since I lent him some gear, when it came to it, I answered. Other Scouts are surprised he is Life. One commented, "he's like a Tenderfoot when it comes to camping"

I do see some promise. Going to chat with family when I can and get support to let him do things for himself. They do everything for him. Found out Dad bought the food for the patrol this past weekend.

Well, I had another disheartening moment yesterday. 

We had a life Scout transfer into the troop because "you do stuff."  Yes their troop camped, but it was very infrequent. The Life Scout didn't know how to write a menu, food purchasing list, or duty roster.

I am beginning to wonder if I am fighting an uphill battle staying in Scouting.

The closest thing I ever did for a camporee to be a MB was a wilderness survival themed camporee. A lot of the events were based upon requirements for the merit badge. Personal favorite was shelter building. Build a shelter, and we placed newspaper inside of it, and dumped water on the roof to see how water proof it was.