DuctTape

That is my point. The meaning is important, but we still expect the recitation as an affirmation of the ideals. Putting it into practice is then where the rubber meets the road. We don't just say, "well living the scout law is what's important so memorizing the 12 points is a waste if time".

I agree with stosh. Too much pomp and circumstance for "cross over".

And Stosh, replace the outdoor code with the scout law in your anecdote.

Of course living the outdoor code is more important than simple recitation. The same is true for the oath and law. Scouts should be demonstrating those virtues on site as well. To dismiss the outdoor code and claim only doing it onsite is also justification for eliminating the oath and law.

The purpose of faithful recitation of these codes is a constant reaffirmation of the ideals, they are not the end of the journey but the map by which a scout follows.

As with all things in scouting, EDGE is a basic skill of teaching. It is not the end-all-be-all, it is just the beginning.

My point was not to explain all aspects or causes of intersex, but simply to point out that this isn't some new idea and in some cases (albeit rare) we do understand the genetic component as it relates chromosomally. In future we will likely learn more about specific gene sequences which trigger other gender expressions. I stand by my comment that this is not some dangerous idea, it is an acknowledgement of reality.

Not a dangerous idea. It is an acknowledgement of the fact that gender/sex are not as binary as some might want to believe. It has been known for quite some time that some children are born with variations in characteristics which do not fit the binary paradigm. These manifest in both genotype and phenotype variations in not just humans, but other animals as well.

Sounds a bit like you've been hanging around Stosh too much.....

Perhaps someday we will be fortunate enough to share a campfire.

The ASM, TG, or Instructor should be flexible to the needs of the patrol, not implement their own agenda. Their job is to help, not hinder nor force.

When one looks at the "book" regarding the labels on the patrols, it also includes rank, age etc... It is ridiculous. Apparently a NSP is made up of only 11 year olds. Regular patrols are made up of first class and above. The venture patrol has no ages or ranks. Where does a new 12 year old scout go? (He askes rhetorically). Get rid of the labels and attempts to categorize, it muddies the waters.

In my youth scouting experience, when I joined, I was chosen by a patrol. The PL was a few years older than me, and I always looked up to him. Patrol makeups changed over the years as others came/left, but there was never a set time when patrols were "organized" it was organic. As an aside, at my Eagle COH, I asked my first PL (who was now in college) to give me the Eagle Charge.

And before that, there were just patrols. The boys make up their own gang without influence from adults whether those adults are SMs or the new handbook writer in Tx.

Our boys do it as part of the closing, they use the scout sign.

I tie it a couple of ways, it depends if the main loop is around my waist, or in my hand. Most who are proficient in knots settle on just a few which they use most of the time. Some knots have more specific uses than others, while some are general use. Like most skills in scouting, the required knots provide an overview of the basic general forms of various types. Of all the knots, the bowline is my most used, followed by a slippery taughtline hitch and then the constrictor hitch (cousin of the clove hitch). A few others I also use regularly, but those are the top 3.

If that was my patrol (~1985-1987) SCCC, we had a UPC barcode drawn with a sharpie on the blank batch.  Flag was also plain white with a UPC barcode drawn on.

No barcode on this patrol flag or badge. Very cool that multiple patrols came up with a similar idea drawing from their current realities. I wonder how many generic patrols there were those years. Probably quite a few.

I also recall a psychedilic firs; taken from the band of the same name. And another patrol called the bionic toads.

One I thought was quite clever back in the 80's was the "generic patrol". This was before grocery stores had their store brands, there were white boxes with black lettering that said, "macaroni" or whatever. The patrol used a blank white patch.

I recall one of purposes of a BOR, back when it was members of the community was to help the boy also learn how to interview well so that this practice would prepare them for job interviews. Instead of thinking of this as "retesting" or "provide documentation", it is the chance for the boy to learn to sell himself based on what he has done and learned. If he isn't prepared for the interview, he won't get the job. BOR's should, as the boy progreeses through the ranks, expect more from the boy. If not, then we are back to checking boxes. None of the requirements should ever be just checking boxes, imo.

There was no "big question" in my area as a scout. And there isn't one now. Must be a regional myth. The one myth I recall was the secret requirement in Wilderness Survival that you had to eat a deer turd to get the merit badge.

My wife calls school 'zero tolerance' rules 'no tolerance' because the ones who often get swept up in them are ESE kids or kids with issues that adults are not flexible to deal with.

 

This is exactly why zero tolerance has fallen out of favor (it was enacted as a knee-jerk reaction without real forethought). Restorative discipline (or restorative justice) is more meaningful and significantly more effective as it deals with causes.

Some of us do work in education and while computerization is in use, when it takes the place of human decision making instead of providing data to help with decision making things have gone awry. No computer system used in a school is competent enough for us to abdicate to it the decision making authority. It isn't old school vs new, it is making sound professional decisions using technology, not having technology make the decisions.

While students may not be allowed to do the actual cleanup of an area they made hazardous, they could spend equivalent time doing beautification projects and speaking with younger students about acceptable behaviors, etc...

Often the boys will be more strict in evaluating than adults.

Learning to do things for themselves in the out of doors is kind of the purpose. It matters not whether they use matches in their normal everyday life. They probably don't set up tents on a regular basis at home either. Nor use an axe or paddle a canoe. We provide the opportunity for all of these things and more. At least we should. They begin as tenderfoots (not the rank, but as one with limited skill) and through scouting we help develop their skills and understandings that they did not previously have. Sure civilization has changed, but even when match lit stoves were common in homes it didn't mean the boys ever lit them. Sometimes in scouting is the first time they swung an axe even though there is one in their garage.

I just got home and looked. I have a 1952 and 1955 Fieldbooks. Both brown covers. The "chapters" were called "pow wows".

Camporees are competitions in this neck of the woods. This year, there was an emphasis on basic Scouting Skills. The Scouts in the troop know there is friction between the two groups of adults. After one committee member respected by both groups talked to the scouts, and got a real honest to goodness read on the situation, He  talked to all the adults. Long story short, things the Scouts wanted to happened did happen. Why things have been OK lately and nothing added to the thread I started back in May. BUT the Scouts also knew that if they gave a serious reason to the "they aren't ready" faction to implement their plan, it would probably happen. Let's just say that I was severely disappointed with them this weekend. I know they can do better. But I also know that they have only been doing this since July, and the way the schedule was implemented, they really only had 1 camp out as a patrol prior to camporee. June was summer camp, July a backpackign trek for the older guys and weekend for those who did it, abot 5.  August was a canoe trek.

 

I'm hoping the guys realize they screwed up, and get their act together FAST. I really do not want the adults to take over.

I would think summer camp, a backpacking trip, and a canoeing trip would be fantastic adventures to be using the basic scout skills everyday.

Digging a hole is not necessarily a LNT violation. It depends on the environment in which one is in. A dakota fire hole is awesome when one needs to block wind and maximize efficiency of fuel. Think about snow conditions. Dig a hole in the snow, then the air hole. Line the fire hole with stout logs. Build the small cook fire on the ground in the hole... That is just one possible use. Using a tripod to suspend a cookpot into the hole makes it even better. Imagine the boys telling everyone how they cooked their food over a fire in a hole dug into the snow.