DuctTape

3 hours ago, Maboot38 said:

Good question. So it's a long story, but I'm going to try not to write a novel to describe it. Essentially, our Troop has a number of problems. The first is that there are 2 troops, a girl troop and a boy troop, and prior to my joining, it was decided that the two troops would function as one, with the girls being a single patrol in the boy troop, and that there would be TWO SPLs!!! So that's part one where the methods break down. The second problem is that the troop does everything as a troop, not as patrols. Patrols don't plan together, don't shop together, don't cook together....and rarely really learn from each other. This troop has been very much adult led, with adults telling them what events they have coming up, leaving only the small details to the PLC to sort out. I'm trying to take all the adult cooks out of the kitchen and let the kids have a turn to make decisions. This is no easy chore. Some of our adults go so far as to strain pasta for their kids who are scouts on campouts, and pack their tents and sleeping bags. I'm trying to ask adults to be hands off, and just let me coach the SPL and Patrol leaders to TRY to lead. We have adult leaders who are incredible passionate and well meaning, but telling them they are doing it wrong an coaching them to be hands off and let the kids fail to learn is so difficult. We have a committee chair who insists on doing everything, and doesn't really want to delegate. They LOVE doing the work, so they don't complain, but there's no reason not to share responsibilities with the rest of the committee. I don't want the CC to burn out, but when I suggest that someone else could collect money, or track advancement, or coordinate a fundraiser, the CC always says "I've got it." I don't want to tell the committee what to do, because just as I want them to stay out of my lane with the scouts, I need to stay out of their lane and let them committee....so my main focus is to get the adults to leave the kids alone and go through me...at least until the scouts begin to feel like they are running the show.

Yikes! You have your hands full.

In order to enact change you will need (at least) one other adult on your side else change will be futile. You will also need the authority to make the hard (but correct) decisions. This requires the unequivocal support from the IH. 

With these two pieces, you have a chance. You then need to get all your ASMs trained in the Patrol Method. 

Welcome. Pull up a stump to the virtual campfire and grab a cup of coffee.

There are sometimes religious reasons for a person to not recite oaths or pledges. 

The only merit badge I received that I can say I probably did not truly earn was Basketry. 

The  was done at summer camp. At the time I recall 2 requirements:

1. Make a basket.

2. Cane a chair seat.

For #1, we used a kit with a wooden base.

For #2, we weaved criss-cross strings over a square platform.

Afterwards, as an older scout I learned how to make an actual basket without a kit... Significantly more complex. I also learned to cane a seat from my father as he would restore antique chairs as a hobby. Wow was that a complex process. 

I never completed an entire chair seat myself, only did a few of the diagonal weaves with the cane. I did make multiple baskets of different designs over the years.

6 hours ago, Ojoman said:

Today, most IH and Co are less than fully functioning and that can be a problem. However, a good unit commissioner that works with them and the unit can change that. Also the annual IH visit that the DE is 'supposed' to do can bring a focus on the program to the IH. Sadly, I think most unit level volunteers think the only training they need is the on line training and BAlOO or Outdoor for troop leaders. Councils/District training committees should be offering everything from den chief training to PowWow and Univ of Scouting and pushing for volunteers to attend. Help from the membership committee and even finance in how to better run a product sale or other means of funding unit program... I'll stop here and look for more comments. 

I do not disagree, at least not much.

A good commissioner can only do so much. If the unit wants to do a non-bsa program denying the scouts a real scouting opportunity they can and do. You hinted at this by admitting the leaders (sic) only do the basic required trainings. One might argue that if more is necessary, then more should be required. The major issue is even WITH the training, they ignore what they are supposed to do. Often with phrases, "this is how our troop operates", even when it contradicts the training and literature.

I am not sure they can do much more for the local units. IMO the entire BSA structure predicated on the authority of the IH of the CO is the major obstacle for any real reform. Problematic units do not utilize district/council trainings, trainers, etc... They do not see themselves as having a problem even though they are not delivering the BSA program. The district and council have no authority to step in and make real changes when a unit is operating in a way contradictory to the BSA program (eg. adult led & run eagle mills). 

Perhaps one place where the council & district CAN exercise some authority is true vetting and training of mB counselors. Also in ensuring district & council camps are run in a way to maximize the BSA program with fidelity  and not enable the problematic units.

23 hours ago, Armymutt said:

I wish we could do this.  However, of the 5 adults in attendance, 4 are already "Leaders" - the CM, Treasurer, and 2 Bear ADLs.  I really think the best course of action is to combine the units.  We currently have 2 Lions, 2 Tigers, 2 Wolves, 4 Bears, and 4 Webelos, of which one will drop at the end of the year.  

With these numbers, I am not surprised of the difficulties.  2 scouts is not a den, 4 barely. Not to sound harsh, but these numbers do not make viable dens, let alone a pack. The pack needs to either fold or merge IMO. 

16 hours ago, Armymutt said:

I like the footprint for BA tents with the fast fly capability.  Lets me set up the fly in a rain storm and build the tent underneath it.  That way I get less water intrusion through the mesh walls.  They also are lighter than plastic and fold better.  

A BA tent is an ultra-light backpacking tent, so weight will be always on the mind. Even still, it can be set-up rain fly first w/o a footprint, and a cheaper and even lighter than the footprint plastic groundcloth can be found using polycryo plastic (sold as window insulation). Get the giant size and cut it.  The stuff is way stronger than it appears. I am veering off from the needs of scouts and into the ultralight backpacking territory.

Footprints are a waste of $ IMO. Easier and cheaper to cut a piece of heavy duty plastic sheeting to size.

Johnson Outdoors, the makers of Eureka Tents is exiting the tent manufacturing. Their Eureka Timberline tents have been mainstays for Scouts for decades. There might br some good deals to be found as they sell off their remaining inventory.

18 minutes ago, DannyG said:

This is the Cub Scouts I remember as a youth. This is an antiquated version. I do not believe this is how Cubs should be done today. For instance JTE encourages more frequent Pack meetings. Monthly is the ideal. 

Young children are active. The Cub Scouts program should encourage activity. This is how they learn. Get the young kids camping with their family. Put them on a trail. Cub Scouts can be an alternative to sports and Y-guides. Fill in the gaps that the other programs don't cover: outdoors (camping, fishing, hiking), service to community, etc.

I disagree that the way we experienced it is not useful for todays youth. Den-centric can be just as active as the leaders desire,  just as pack-centric can be boring inside stuff.

A den is much easier to organize a hike, or outdoor activity too. Family attending a campout is much easier as a den too. I also disagree with the current parent sign-off. 

3 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

 

I had a similar experience to the one you described in the early 1980s. Only difference was Cub Scouts was 3 eyars as Tigers did nto come out until 1982.

It might have been 3 years for me, not sure. It was the late 70s, so before Tigers too.

My cub experience was vastly different from what I have been hearing the last few decades. Cubs.  for me was NOT a family affair, nor a Pack-centric unit.

We had a den which met weekly after school at the den leaders house for an hour or so, then walked home or our parents picked us up. There were a couple pack meetings throughout the year, maybe 2 or 3. Pinewood derby and B&G are the only ones I remember. There were also a couple pack campouts, but we mostly stayed with our den. I do not recall ever really interacting with another den.

Each den meeting we would do an activity, sometimes a continuation from the previous week. No "requirements" were ever signed off by parents. AOL was an extra award one could earn as a Webelos, and there was only one year of it. There were only 4 years of cubs, iirc, Bobcat, Wolf, Bear, and Webelos.

6 hours ago, BetterWithCheddar said:

Our Pack meets at a local elementary school. If you asked my son what's his favorite part of every Pack meeting, he'd probably say playing freeze tag before the meeting starts. Containing 40 Cubs is a challenge. We're considering appointing two parents as hall monitors for every Pack meeting. In the OP's case, I wonder if stationing a pair of supervisors just outside the meeting area would help curtail rowdy behavior? They could also approach it from the standpoint of incentivizing good conduct - maybe each week the best-behaved patrol earns a pin for their patrol flag?

If possible, I would move towards a Den-centered approach instead of a Pack-centered. 

Imagine the den meeting with 3 adults and 8 kids. Much easier to manage. 

For example, at the Elem school, each den gets a room. Keep the dens separated except for necessary functions (which are few and far between). 

35 minutes ago, VinceABQ said:

I'm an Counselor for E Prep. 

Rqmt 7a is easily met by participation in a school fire or shooter drill.   But what do I do with a home schooled boy?   I tried to connect to our county E Dept, they said they were going to do a drill now (Balloon Fiesta) but never got back to me, even when I emailed them in advance.  I'm looking for a way to meet the rqmt that doesn't rely of the county govt, got any suggestions?

Contact me at HH-Co7@comcast.net

Vince, Albuquerque

Wish I could help, but after reading the actual words of the the requirement I am even more confused now. Is this participation in a project or an emergency drill? What does "a real one" mean. A real drill or a real project? A real drill or practice drill? Like I said I am even more confused.

(a) Take part in an emergency service project, either a real one or a practice drill, with a Scouting unit or a community agency.

Welcome to the campfire. Grab a cuppa and have a seat.

The suggestion to speak with his mB counselor is spot on. While the experience of completing the requirements as written is important to fulfil "advancement" as a method of scouting, the mB process also provides for another significant method, "Adult Association". The conversation, experience and guided decision making opportunity from the Adult Association with the mB counselor cannot be understated in its importance.

When one ponders this query putting the Aim of Scouting in the forefront; the Method of Adult Association to help the Scout navigate their journey of completing this badge becomes strikingly obvious. 

One thing to add to the discussion is the Uniform is one of the Methods, it is not an Aim. That the PLC understands why uniforms are part of Scouting and that they decide how to address uniforming is what is important.

Boiling water is an excellent sanitizer. Remember the mesh dunk bags?

In general the bulky 3 bin assembly line washing stations are some of the most unsanitary methods I have ever witnessed. IMO, It is better to have scouts individually clean their own stuff separately.  This becomes the norm anyway in backpacking situations, so why not have only a singular process. 

I believe the series of downvotes you received had more to do with disagreement, and your response to the replies. In general this forum is quite welcome to new folks and downvotes are relatively rare. 

I went back and reread your original post and can see why others responded he way they did. Perhaps it was another communication faux pas. 

I am sorry you feel that the responses were brutal and perceived them as hostile. 

I am glad that your issue was resolved to your satisfaction. 

The "pay to play" board models have become the norm. For many, the boards have abdicated their oversight responsibility and given over complete control to their CEO/Executive to the point where that employee dictates board policy and even who serves on the board. The boards are now that person's subordinate. Certain organizations which consult for boards have been infiltrated and now recommend even more drastic changes to by-laws which have the effect of making the situation even worse. When the executive is able to insulate themself from any accountability they have become a despot.

27 minutes ago, 5thGenTexan said:

I want to ask here.  Is demanding Scouts do one thing OR do push-ups considered corporal punishment in 2023 in the barriers to abuse?  Yelling loudly, not to be heard but angry... pick up trash or do push ups.

 

I haven't slept all night worrying I'm putting Scouts in danger if I quit and dont stand up for thier safety.

It could be.

It definitely isn't part of Scouting.

On 8/2/2023 at 9:29 AM, Delphinus said:

I'll start by saying that generally, I like Scoutbook and the functionality it offers for tracking Scout advancement. What are you seeing in your Troops? What I've seen is that our Troop only records requirements completed in the hardcopy Scout Handbooks. Then, when a Scout achieves the rank, the Troop Advancement Chair just checks the completion of that rank in Scoutbook. This bypasses a lot of the functionality inherent in Scoutbook that enables online tracking of the individual rank requirements. percentage complete towards the next ranks, etc.

Is there a preferred or even an official standard for how Troops should use Scoutbook for tracking advancement? 

  

IMO

ScoutBook is for the adults and the troop for record keeping. The HandBook is for the Scouts for their record keeping. 

There is no official standard for using ScoutBook, except for if/when it interferes with the Scout's personal role in their own advancement as a method of Scouting. If the adults "take over" the majority of the purposes of advancement as a method  (motivation, planning, record keeping, communication, etc...) then the Scout does not benefit from advancement as a method, it simply becomes a checkbox.

Or when BORs were conducted by "men of the community", which allowed scouts to get an early preparation for job interviews with unknown business leaders.