King Ding Dong

What I found interesting after watching the video conference on National's website is that allowing gay scouts will be all inclusive and not be at the discretion of any CO. That means that if if gay boy wants to join an LDS troop, a Catholic troop or any other conservative groups troop the CO will be unable to deny him membership with the current wording of the proposal. IMHO I do not see the LDS and many other CO's with an anti gay position remaining in scouting. I think the BSA shot themselves in the foot once again by not giving the CO the option based on their religious principles. If this passes on May 23rd we all may be witnessing the beginning of the demise of boy scouting. Yet another case of National trying to mandate to the CO's an unenforceable policy. Maybe it is time to bring back Woodcraft Rangers, Sons of Daniel Boone, etc.

Maybe building a wall will arches and such to show the integrity of the whole structure when parts are removed.

You have a tough assignment.

The first year that my dad went to camp with me, about Wednesday he grabbed me and we stole into town for supper. He never drank except a beer at a baseball game or maybe with pizza (I'm talking 5 beers in 20 years) but if he'd had one with dinner I don't think it would've been a big deal, nor would I have a problem with another adult doing so now that I'm an adult. The problem would be if they had more than one and/or came back still buzzed and/or smelling, or talking it up. The problem with people that drink with any regularity is that they can't keep their mouths shut about it--protip: No one cares about what you're drinking, bro.

 

Smoking is comparable here. The camp we attend allows smoking in one spot, and one spot only, far away from everyone's eyes and noses.

 

It is simply not a moral issue for an adult to have a drink. I don't, but it's not illegal and it doesn't set a bad example in my opinion, until you start yammering on about it like some frat boy or connoisseur.

 

That said, this I have an issue with:

I will certainly pack some quality meat and vegetables to cook myself.

Nobody likes camp food. If I get sent out of camp on an errand, yeah, I do it at lunch or dinner time and stop at McDonald's (which is ironic, but I digress). But I would never walk into camp with my own special food in front of everyone else who is suffering through it; it's rude.

 

What I would suggest, since this all stems really from the food avoidance rather than any desire to leave expressly to get a drink, is that you talk to the boys and adults about maybe cooking your own suppers in your site, like summer camps used to do and the way they do at jamboree. You can all certainly cook better cheeseburgers, grilled chicken, etc than the crap they churn out from the D hall. Maybe sweeten the deal by offering to do the cooking yourself.

But to me, it's the height of rudeness to bring your own meals to camp absent an allergy.

 

Working with the SM and committe we have a plan for me to gradually pull back' date=' but at this time we decided it was not best to plunge him into a full week of independence with people he does not know well at all. [/quote']

I really applaud you for that. Way too many people turn camp into trauma by forcing it too early.

I do get your point, but I think you missed mine.

 

I am not talking about bringing surf and turf. My wife is Celiac and over the past year I have developed digestive issues also. We have both switched over to the Paleo/Primal diet and when I stick to it I feel a LOT better. In a sense it is an allergy, but one we all suffer to one degree or another. The lectins in grains are poison to our body. It all boils down to if the cavemen ate it, all good. If it takes modern agricultural processes and processing to turn the food into something we can eat, it is not so good. The heavy carbs in our diet cause spikes in blood sugar and cause a whole host of problems. Cows don't eat grains and corn, they eat grass. The nutritional profile of our beef has changed drastically over the past 40-50 years. There are barely any omega 3s in industrial beef and chicken. Enough about that.

 

Suffice it to say, I only eat meat (grass fed beef, free range or organic chicken, some pork, wild fish). and vegetables, greens, tree nuts, fruit, eggs, with limited amounts of dairy and of course limited distilled alcohol or wine, no beer. I can't eat grains, bread, corn, beans, peanuts (a legume, not a nut), soy, processed sugar. Not much left on the plate at a camp dining hall. Go look at ingredients of ice cream these days, they load it up with gluten. WTF? Why are they putting grains in ice cream ? GREED. You have to hunt for all natural ice cream these days.

 

I would actually love the camp food, PB&J was my go to food for years. I would eat hot dogs and potato salad all day if I could. If I eat like that for more than a meal or two I will spend most of my time in the restroom and recovering on the couch. One thing to do at home, quite another in June in a camp latrine.

 

One of the main reasons for going out of council was to attract the older scouts who are tired of spending so much time cooking a d cleaning and not working on MBs, I am told. It is not my place to ask them to change their entire plan for my dietary needs.

 

Call that rude if you will. If I have to be rude to live, then so be it.

I agree with BD others. The bridge is special and the crossing over should be decoupled with AOL. Preferably at different times. My opinion is we should stick with immediate recognition and award AOL when the individual scout earns it and not wait until cross over night. I have not won that argument yet.

Our Pack holds B&G latter than most, late march/early April on a Friday night. The Webelos leave immediately to go on their first campout as a Boy Scout with the Troop. I think that adds an extra special importance to the ceremony.

Ozark trail tents are complete garbage......The fiberglass poles on the ones we tried splintered in a couple of uses....The flys are not full length flys resulting in some pretty significant water issues......I am sure there are different models the 4 man we had was complete garbage.....

 

While REI has a 100% lifetime guarantee, I don't know that I could ask them to honor that warranty for troop owned tents........Just doesn't feel very scout like....

 

 

I have two OT air mattresses that have done well, same box different design. OT Is a Walmart brand not a manufacturer, so quality can vary greatly depending on the forced child labor camp that manufactures it.

BD has a GREAT point. Why would an adult at summer camp need to leave camp for a beer or cocktail? It is only a week. Wait until Saturday night, if you need a drink, or find someone to share your responsibility through the week.

I had about 50% attendance in my den when I had meetings on Sundays. I moved it to a Monday after school and went to almost 100%. Not sure why because no parent ever complained or anything like that.

The upside is it didn't interfere with sports, dinner, homework or bed times. It was great for working on the more hands on and outdoor activities, but a real pain for some of the more "book" learning badges like citizenship.

As always the challenge is to have sufficient prep time to "make it fun"

Hey BD, that was me and it is titled Summer Camp Break.

Now before you get your panties to wadded up I was posting a satirical poll. I frequently go longer than a week with no alcohol and do not "need" it, ever. I also pointed out in my troop's situation we are bordering on to much adult leadership at camp. Our troop elected the dining hall option and while that kind of food is ok for awhile, it will be a definite change as I try to limit my industrial processed food intake. Grains, beans, white potatoes, starches, industrialized meats, processed sugars, all the stuff our bodies are not designed to digest and are making us sick. I highly suspect grass feed beef or free range chicken with roasted asparagus is not on the menu. I will certainly pack some quality meat and vegetables to cook myself.

Having a couple of cocktails in an air conditioned environment with a healthy meal certainly would be a nice "break". A side benefit would be to not have Dad there for a few hours. I never suggested I needed to go out and party and get blasted and come stumble back into my tent. Most stated that while it might be OK, it would not be the wisest action. I am cool with that.

Why am I going at all? My son just crossed over and is a bit of a special needs case. While very intelligent, he is almost a full year younger than the others in the NSP, has ADHD, has emotional issues, did not have the best Webelos experience, is very weak, is not independent at all among other issues. ( He generally cannot even unscrew a water bottle). Working with the SM and committe we have a plan for me to gradually pull back, but at this time we decided it was not best to plunge him into a full week of independence with people he does not know well at all. We recently moved and only spent a few months with the Pack and due to bad weather only has one weekend campout under his belt.

Thanks for the feedback, all. I do hope to keep a good camper to staff ratio. Unfortunately, I've been give 3 staff members to work with, plus possibly CITs. I think I'll end up asking SMs and ASMs to lend a hand.

 

My recommendation to leaders is that they review the content we cover with the boys no sooner than a few hours after we teach it to make sure they retained it. Maybe I should write a letter to be handed out at check in...

 

Sure wish they had given me more time to plan.

At IOLS last week they tied a bunch of spars up horizontally on a pavilion for us to practice knots on. The instructors could move up and down the line. Although the side by side approach is best.

Always ask your self this question. Is this method like camp or school ?

Tam' date=' I agree. Just tying knots, for the sake of tying knots gets boring very quickly. It is much better to have a project to work on. Camp gadget requirement anyone ? Even simple pioneering projects can make great patrol building exercises and fun inter-patrol competition.[/quote']

 

Take them to the climbing tower. That will show them what knots for for REAL fast....and they will love it.

Isn't there an age restriction on those?

I have a new Bear and a 1st year Scout. I keep getting voted CM, but wife won't let me. Maybe if we get more parents to be active in the committee she might relent. Lol.

Welcome and it is fun here. Just beware the navigation has some bugs. Use the filter and select discussions only to see multiple pages.

We could try switching from a necker to a silk ascot.

So bottom line here is you want some sort of rule or measuring stick to justify to the parents that their little darling just ain't good enough to represent your troop in the OA.

 

Sorry pal, there isn't one.

 

The justification is in my View Tommy Crappycamper, while a member of the BSA and a first class rank scout meets two of the requirements....I, his SM, have spent countless hours camping, hiking and scouting with the young man and don't feel he is ready for the OA at this point.

 

If mom and dad complain then read to them from the OA membership page

 

[h=3]Purpose[/h]

As Scouting’s National Honor Society, our purpose is to:

• Recognize those who best exemplify the Scout Oath and Law in their daily lives and through that recognition cause others to conduct themselves in a way that warrants similar recognition.
  
• Promote camping, responsible outdoor adventure, and environmental stewardship as essential components of every Scout’s experience, in the unit, year-round, and in summer camp.
  
• Develop leaders with the willingness, character, spirit and ability to advance the activities of their units, our Brotherhood, Scouting, and ultimately our nation.
  
• Crystallize the Scout habit of helpfulness into a life purpose of leadership in cheerful service to others.
  

 

Keep complaining about the quality of the BSA and then act powerless to do anything about it.......

 

 

The power is in our hands, but many SM's and Troop lack the backbone to use it......Scout spirit and SM recommendation.......I am guessing that the OA election and membership is an expectation in your troop???? So a boy gets his nights camping and rank he is a shu in?? It will never be that way in a troop I am SM of.

 

 

You don't want to make Mr and Mrs Crappycamper upset....that is your right......But you have now lost the right to complain about the poor quality of the youth.

Ozark trail tents are complete garbage......The fiberglass poles on the ones we tried splintered in a couple of uses....The flys are not full length flys resulting in some pretty significant water issues......I am sure there are different models the 4 man we had was complete garbage.....

 

While REI has a 100% lifetime guarantee, I don't know that I could ask them to honor that warranty for troop owned tents........Just doesn't feel very scout like....

 

 

You are correct, if the failure is due to abuse it is not right to hold them to it. Leaky floor, maybe. We don't use cots.

I checked out those Jambo tents. Interesting. Certainly should be good enough for fair weather. A few years ago we picked up a bunch of crappy Coleman 6 man tents that the State had bought in anticipation of Katrina refugees. $10 each. Never used. Poles start snapping after 5 or 6 uses. Very leaky also.

New wolf or wolf moving to Bear ? We just handed out the neckers and slides tonight. Bear is a great year, we hand them a license to carry a knife. Scary stuff.

Just stay out of the issues and politics section. You get jaded there.

Ummm.... Perhaps your councils are different. In our council, if you are registered in the unit, your name can be shifted around between different positions in the unit WITHOUT a new application. If you are NOT registered in the unit, yes, a new app is needed.

 

But for years, I've changed leader titles both at recharter and as needed using a change of leadership form.

 

Tiger den leader --> Cub scout den leader

Cub Den leader --> Webelos den leader

ASM --> scoutmaster

Scoutmaster --> ASM

Committee member --> ASM

Your issue is not with tents per say' date=' just $200 tents.[/quote']

 

$40 Ozark Trail tents at Walmart that sleep 4-6 lasted three years longer than the $150 3-man tents we got at REI.

Good point. My main concern is dry tents. REI supposedly has a 100% lifetime guarantee. We have a couple of those that leak and plan to test out their stated policy.

 

I also think our troop needs to make a distinction between a car camping tent and a backpacking tent. I have a 8 person Eureka for $200 that doesn't leak. But I take care of it.

My post vote plans will be based on how it all falls out. If the vote is a no, it will depend on how it happens. Basically, if it all turns out that the BSA takes a turn for the right, and it becomes clear that people that are not social conservatives are not welcome, I will leave. I had a conversation with a scouter that basically went "once we get rid of the fags, next we get rid of the #%$# Hindus, Muslims and women!". If people like that win, the BSA is dead, and I'm gone. If on the other hand, people like me are still welcome (or at least tolerated), I'm going to continue to write letters, and advocate for change from within.

 

A no vote isn't an automatic "I'm leaving". But given some of the things I have heard from some scouters, if they get their way, I won't have to leave on my own. I will be "unacceptable" just for being Unitarian (or as one scouter put it: "#$ Unitarianism isn't a real religion, and they shouldn't be allowed!"). Way to live "A Scout if Reverent".

This topic caught my attention. After the new youth protection video showing cell phone camera abuse, I pretty much assumed that cell phones were out. Our council camps have had a long history of banning personal electronics so I didn't worry about developing a troop policy. So just today I reviewed the leader guides for this year. There is no cell phone rule. Only one camp retained the music machine ban. Cameras have always been OK.

 

Now I have to rethink my policy. Two things are at odds. As a parent I was very upset when our local Junior High school refused to allow students access to any phone. The logic went something like this. The office phone is for us so students can't use it. We turn the pay phone off in the first 2 months of school every year after 2 idiots call 911 for no reason. So as a parent, I think kids should have access to communication with their parents. As a Scout Master, I don't want parents calling every day, homesickness is only half the story. Last year I had 3 kids who were so home sick on Friday afternoon that they just had to call home. Arrangements were made. 3 sets of parents showed up and three kids went home. To this day I believe that the whole point of that exercise was to get out of helping take down camp. Officially I can't say that. I have planed two changes this year to prevent a replay. First tent inspections will be double checked by an adult. Second we will be under the stars Friday night, with most of the packing done.

 

This years camp has great cell coverage. I like the idea of using the Scoutmasters phone as the contact. Things get broken at camp, I'll probably use that as the basis of my strong recommendation against phones and electronics.

Seems like that would be a ding to scout spirit. This will be my first year at scout camp, how hard is it to pack up? I can't imagine it is all that different than a two day. Unless they make you haul all your gear 500 yards, I have heard of those boot camps.

The camp we are going to this year has a camper release form. Unless that form is signed by a parent a parent or ambulance is the only way they get to leave. .

I am not going to inform them of the ambulance option. They just get a bright idea.

inner city boys are wigged out by the bugs........ It just boggles my mind as well......many live in coach roach infested homes......We have had several with bed bug issues....

 

 

But see a daddy long leg or mosquito you thought the world ended....

 

Tents really helped me get the boys more interested in a more active outdoor program.

 

We put our order in for some 2013 Jambo tents......a bargain at $38 bucks.......I can outfit for the new patrol for about $200 plus shipping

I am starting to understand you a little better. Your issue is not with tents per say, just $200 tents. I get it. They boys are a bit rough with them and they are not lasting. I think they have a time and place, but I would like to explore a better option for fair weather camping.

So Tam....You just take the Camp Staffs word they completed the requirements?????

 

so how do you know if they acquired the skill to the level your comfortable with.

 

 

I would never delegate my scouts rank advancement to something as Cub Scouty as a first year program at resident camp, which in many cases is day care for your new scouts. While my boys attend one, They do not just get an auto pass on the requirements when we leave camp..... We cover the tenderfoot/Second Class material on the weeks following camp at the troop meetings and the SPL and PL's sign off when the boys have demonstrated the skill to their satisfaction.

 

 

In my opinion these programs are in part responsible to the Low quality of the current Youth Scouts, and their lazy SM's are also to blame..

 

 

 

Some boys just have a sensory issue with the shirts, including my own boys. The biggest complaint they have is wearing pins like service stars and summertime pack awards. So those are off except for pack meetings. I also find a t shirt underneath helps. I think the biggest reason we have this problem is the boys are just not used to wearing button down shirts or tucking shirts in for that matter. I can't say I blame them, they are just little boys. I love the comfort of the microfiber shirt and it does dry quickly, but the durability and stain resistance suffer greatly. I have a problem with piling on the inside and outside of the collar.

 

I think one thing that gets overlooked in the issue is safety. The uniform and neckerchief provide an easy identification in herding the cats, especially in larger packs at activities. Ask Andy over at UsScouts.org has several examples of the benefits in wearing the uniform. From just getting a warning from traffic cops to an opportunity for his troop to receive free ropes course training after an instructor class because his troop was the only one identifiable as scouts at a camp and the class needed some practice subjects. Our troop policy is to always wear the uniform while traveling.

 

They way I have heard the old timers talk about their uniforms they must have been made out of burlap.

Some boys just have a sensory issue with the shirts, including my own boys. The biggest complaint they have is wearing pins like service stars and summertime pack awards. So those are off except for pack meetings. I also find a t shirt underneath helps. I think the biggest reason we have this problem is the boys are just not used to wearing button down shirts or tucking shirts in for that matter. I can't say I blame them, they are just little boys. I love the comfort of the microfiber shirt and it does dry quickly, but the durability and stain resistance suffer greatly. I have a problem with piling on the inside and outside of the collar.

I think one thing that gets overlooked in the issue is safety. The uniform and neckerchief provide an easy identification in herding the cats, especially in larger packs at activities. Ask Andy over at UsScouts.org has several examples of the benefits in wearing the uniform. From just getting a warning from traffic cops to an opportunity for his troop to receive free ropes course training after an instructor class because his troop was the only one identifiable as scouts at a camp and the class needed some practice subjects. Our troop policy is to always wear the uniform while traveling.

They way I have heard the old timers talk about their uniforms they must have been made out of burlap.

My post vote plans will be based on how it all falls out. If the vote is a no, it will depend on how it happens. Basically, if it all turns out that the BSA takes a turn for the right, and it becomes clear that people that are not social conservatives are not welcome, I will leave. I had a conversation with a scouter that basically went "once we get rid of the fags, next we get rid of the #%$# Hindus, Muslims and women!". If people like that win, the BSA is dead, and I'm gone. If on the other hand, people like me are still welcome (or at least tolerated), I'm going to continue to write letters, and advocate for change from within.

 

A no vote isn't an automatic "I'm leaving". But given some of the things I have heard from some scouters, if they get their way, I won't have to leave on my own. I will be "unacceptable" just for being Unitarian (or as one scouter put it: "#$ Unitarianism isn't a real religion, and they shouldn't be allowed!"). Way to live "A Scout if Reverent".

Because a common disorder among Scouters is CRS. (Can't Remember S**t)

There is another reason but it escapes me at the moment.