Scouter99

On this topic of camping with non-scouts' date=' I've not been able to find a clear BSA policy for it ... So, can anyone point me to any sort of written BSA policy on the topic?[/quote']

 

From the Guide to Safe Scouting, Camping section:

"If a well-meaning [boy Scout] leader brings along a child who does not meet these age guidelines, disservice is done to the unit because of distractions often caused by younger children. A disservice is also done to the child, who is not trained to participate in such an activity and who, as a nonmember of the group, may be ignored by the older campers."

Merlyn is the last person I'd expect to fault the CA Supreme Court for discrimination.

Now, now, TAHAWK, Rick in California state of mind says it's so, and liberals have the corner on reality, so you can take your HuffPost, NYT, The New Republic, and TIME, and put them down the chute where liberals put history that doesn't match this week's facts like a good MiniTru employee.

It was true until Fox said it, now it's not true. It's simple, TAHAWK. Get on board the fact train.

Tough!

In my opinion, BSA makes WAY too many demands on volunteers to manage their complicated administrative procedures ---rechartering being a prime example.

I seriously considered dumping the rechartering back on the DE altogether, but devised the strategy I devised which made things pretty easy.

My preference is to not get involved in the rechartering at all. But I also hate to saddle another volunteer with a needlessly complex, cumbersome and annoying job to do.

So my solution is to make the task as simple as possible for ME as a volunteer.

As I understand it, the Council staff can pretty easily reactivate a membership for some significant amount of time after the new year.

I provide them with the names to reactivate and the BSA identification number ---and a check --- which is $24 PER PERSON these days you know. If they have to do some work to complete that, tough.

Frankly, I've had no complaints from the DE or council. The DE did recognize me at our last District Committee Meeting. He was laboring over listing the many units that hadn't completed their rechartering and that HE was laboring over with hand holding and encouraging leaders to complete the process.

He recognized ME for being the first in the council to complete rechartering. He seemed to be happy with that, and no doubt happy that he didn't have to do a lot of hand holding as was common among MANY other units. (This was at our December District Committee Meeting).

If you want to use more conventional methods to complete rechartering, help yourself.

If your unit finds it burdensome and difficult, they might want to consider the simplified method I have described.

Volunteer or martyr?

Last week's episode of Invisibilia on fear led in with an interesting study on child independence. http://www.npr.org/programs/invisibilia/377515477/fearless?showDate=2015-01-16

This article from The Atlantic also discusses the same study as well as the backlash against overprotective rearing in some communities http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2014/03/hey-parents-leave-those-kids-alone/358631/

I'm saddened that someone thought it was worth their time to do all that research and post it on Wikipedia. Sad. But it was interesting to read.

Wiki editors are bored people.

The comedy website SomethingAwful.com has a game called wiki groaning where you open a wiki article on a fake thing, say, hyperspace from Star Wars, and a comparable real thing, and groan at how much more detailed the fake thing's article inevitably is.

I think one can forgive but that doesn't imply restoration of trust. Trust like respect is earned through repetitive successful encounters. Or' date=' as we used to say in the Navy, One Aw S**t erases 10 Atta Boys.[/quote']

 

I heard or read somewhere "I can forgive, forgetting is God's job"

Does anyone know what this thread is about' date=' at this point?[/quote']

 

I didn't even read the OP

 

Since light appeared to be made up of waves, lumininferous aether was proposed to explain the medium that held it, as waves (as they knew them) needed something to "wave". It wasn't a stupid proposal, and it wasn't anti-scientific, and was discarded soon after the M-M experiment.

Ah, no. Michelson and Morley remained advocates of the aether and did not trust the results of their failed experiments, along with others who continued to check for the aether until 1930, 25 years after Einstein's Special Relativity, and 45 years after the experiments to prove the aether failed. Let alone that scientists invented then assume aether existed for a century before deciding to test for it.

Why is that? Because, as TAHAWK said, scientists are humans and they are invested in things like anyone else. Some physicists refused to accept Einstein's work because he was a Jew, in Britain because it meant a blow to national pride, etc.

What it boils down to is that Rick thinks that scientists are impervious to subjectivity, and they simply are not. That is a Falsificationist/Popperian view of science, and it's as real as the Garden of Eden.

Which probably explains why there are so few republican scientists

Oh, boy, after a few semesters of history of science, don't even get me started. Party affiliation didn't stop these dogmatic dopes from centuries of belief in the aether, an indiscernible subtle fluid dreamed up (very anti-scientifically) to fill the gaps in Newton's mechanical universe, which denied the existence of vacuums, and was still championed in the 1920s. Or then there's phlogiston, the magical substance in everything but, ya know, never existed. Aristotle's geocentric universe which is blamed on medieval/Renaissance Christians but was embraced by ancient pagan Greeks despite the 4th century BC Pythagorean view with evidence that the earth was not the center of the universe. Lets see, celebrated by many as the inventor of Chemistry, Paracelsus also claimed he could create the man-like "homunculus" by cooking up a mixture of blood, semen, and horse crap. What else, oh, the humors. The Philosopher's Stone, which the celebrated president of the French Academy was searching for even as the academy was formally separating chemistry and alchemy. I particularly like Charles Darwin's assertion that once we get politicians and people beyond their childish ick-factor, if we just began to breed incestuously we can create super humans after the 9th generation. Yeah, scientists are the most rational people I can think of.

You should give Thomas Kuhn a read.

99 - Are you able get up off the floor and see your keyboard yet?. (as in ROFLMAO) Thanks for the humor.

Thank you, thank you, I'm here every Thursday. Tip your waitstaff.

I apologize if I misunderstood your intent.

I think you understood perfectly well but won't simply admit that idiocy knows know political affiliation. There is no party of reason, of science, or anything like.

We've gone off track a bit here into discussing philosophy of Scouting rather than this specific incident, which is fine.

What we must remember is that Scouting is a movement, it is not static, the program changes, things are updated, things are changed for better and for worse and sometimes changed back. But like any movement, the vision is set somewhere, and it is our job to work toward that vision, not our own.

And with that said, I will be "that guy" at this point and point out what Baden-Powell had to say about Scouters who think they know better:

"Where a man cannot conscientiously take the line required, his one manly course is to put it straight to his Commissioner or to Headquarters, and if we cannot meet his views, then to leave the work. He goes into it in the first place with his eyes open, and it is scarcely fair if afterwards, because he finds the details do not suit him, he complains that it is the fault of the Executive."

-Aids to Scoutmastership, p 7

I can tell you why I follow the policies, and that is because I had a SM who knew better, and I was not ever going to be an Eagle Scout (I didn't care one whit) but I decided toward the end to at least make it one more rank, and finish up a handful of partials. However, my genius SM decided that the partials were invalid because they were over 6 mos old, and I had to start again. With that news a few months before my 18th birthday, I didn't bother. I took his word for it since I trusted him. I didn't actually find out he was wrong until a decade later.

I'm sure he had the most golden logic in the world in his own mind, and it doesn't matter one bit because he was dead wrong, he is a liar, he abused my trust, and he can still go to the Devil.

SMs have a job, it is to run the program, not to write it. And if they have a problem with the program, they can take it up with Irvingâ€â€the "manly course"â€â€not take it out on Scouts.

There are rules. BSA writes them. And BSA allows a Scout to earn all their MBs with the same councilor (assuming that person is registered as a councilor for all the badges they're signing-off on). And that person can even be the Scouts mom or dad. It is 100% "legal." You (and I) may not like that, but it's the way it is. BSA does discourage it, but they do not outlaw or forbid it.

 

So, if Tommy Scout comes to you and wants to earn a 10th merit badge with his Uncle Miltie (assuming Miltie is a registered MBC for the badges), Tommy has the right to do that. The SM can't say "no, you have to use a different councilor." But his hands aren't totally tied; he doesn't have to just sit there any accept Tommy's choice without a fight. When Tommy Scout comes for that 'blue card,' you can talk with him -- encourage him to try working someone else; find out why he always goes to Uncle Miltie and no one else; recommend some new and more exciting councilors and different MB opportunities; go encourage a buddy or two from his patrol to try to get Tommy to work with them on a MB together with someone else; maybe even go talk with his parents and/or Uncle Miltie about the benefits of having Tommy work with someone else on a badge or two.

 

But, yes, ultimately it's the Scout's decision. It is "legal" for him to earn all his merit badges from "Uncle Miltie" or "MBC daddy," and a Scoutmaster can't make a new rule that says a Scout can't. If you think these rules are wrong, then work to have them changed; don't just create your own rules (a Scout is obedient).

This is incorrect.

A SM may set a limit on the number of badges earned from a single counselor as long as it applies to everyone. Councils can also set a limit. See your GtA, or the synopsis at Scouting Magazine http://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/201...ge-counselors/

The latest GtA also provides a new avenueâ€â€which I think is extremely goodâ€â€to combat rubber-stamped MBs, which you can read about here under 7.0.4.7. "Limited Recourse for Unearned Merit Badges" http://www.scouting.org/Home/GuideTo...geProgram.aspx

Your question seems to betray a basic misunderstanding of the MB program.

First, MBs are not part of the troop program. Many troop activities align with MBs (just peruse the list in Troop Program Features) but troop activities should not be merit badge school.

MBs are an individual pursuit. The scout grows through conferring with his SM about what MB he'd like to work on and getting feedback from the SM, then by getting the names of counselors and contacting them on his own, then by scheduling meetings with the counselor. The program is set up in a certain way to get certain results in the 3 Aims of Scouting (PDF): character, citizenship, and fitness. These aims are accomplished via the methods, in this case, personal growth, association with adults.

Because MBs are an individual pursuit, you should not plan troop program around them because you will inevitably bore and exclude large numbers of your Scouts from any such activity--the ones who already earned it, the ones who don't want to earn it, the ones who don't care.

You can read about the MB program here: http://www.scouting.org/Home/BoyScouts/AdvancementandAwards/MeritBadges.aspx

Counselors are called counselors rather than after-the-fact-stampers for a reason: The work is done under their guidance. When you put the cart ahead of the horse--go and sign off blue cards during a troop event before a counselor is contacted and outside of the entire MB program--you are confusing a method (advancement) for an aim. Badges are not the point of merit badges.

Encourage your scouts to pursue MBs, but encourage them to do it the right way so that they get the true fruit. If you want to center a campout around MB requirements, then the boys (not you) should get in touch with a counselor beforehand, and plan their activity with his guidance.

Here we go again, SM is always right especially when he's wrong.

Listen to Tahawk, his response is correct and right.

The only question here is whether or not the issue is a deal-breaker for the scout. He has a SM and Committee who are willfully ignorant and he's not going to endear himself to them by doing their jobs for them, and he's going to have to deal with them for 6 more years.

If I were your son, I might find particular satisfaction in pretending your SM isn't as dead wrong as he is, and letting the MB counselor give me the MB in two years or whatever. He knows your son already met the requirements and just has a dope SM.

Now that he's earned Lifesaving MB, have him look into the National Outdoor Awards badge for Aquatics; it's a lot of work and well worth it. http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/...wards/NOA.aspx

We are living in a world where reality does have a "liberal bias"' date=' but only because so much of the right wing is living in a bubble where any fact that doesn't match their world view is simply dismissed. [/quote']

Yeah, I really hate all those right wing anti-vaccination nutbags, or those conservative anti-science homeopathic medicine whackjobs. And what about those conservative feminists who keep saying 20% of women are raped even though the liberal Bureau of Justice Statistics says it's .06%--or even worse, the conservative feminists who say facts don't matter at all. Or you know what really gripes me are those conservative gender studies folks who say gender roles are fluid social constructs then turn around and say people who don't conform to them need to change their physical sex characteristics.

 

It's clear that leftism is the paradise of fact.

I started making the headdress in Bill's 1950s Handbook for PLs for fun, which lasted about 2 hours, into a third of annoyance before I got over it.

I allowed the perfectionist in me to kill it altogether when I realized that ALL the imitation eagle feathers are oriented one way, so it was going to be impossible to create a symmetrical row of feathers, that is, on the left side of my forehead, they would all be tilted right. And since they were all tilted, the finished thing would look like it was sideways all the time.

so right or wrong we are wearing it and don't plan to stop.

I always wonder what the smart alec adults who say this say to a smart alec kid who gives them an attitude about something. If I were the kid I'd just show them my back.

This form is good for collecting contact info and letting you know which of your events the boys would be particularly interested in: BSA Adventure Survey. You can print your own, or order a 100-pack at ScoutStuff.org for $5.

There's a guide to the process here: http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/BoyScouts/TroopOpenHouse/school_rally.aspx

What I'm hearing in these sorts of questions is that people ought to kill a lot more people.

When non-violent groups get offended about something, they get chided and told to grow up, that we live in a free country (or relatively free, as Calico pointed out). When offended people blow something up, the tune changes to "responsibility."

It's the free speech version of "if you don't want to get raped, don't wear daisy dukes in mean streets."

Christians have been protesting Piss Christ almost as long as I've been alive, it took some Muslims shooting up Paris to get the AP's attention. http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2015/01/07/ap_piss_christ_image_apparently_self_censored_after_charlie_hebdo_related.html

If Sentinel had gone and shot Andres Serrano in the head, would we be having this conversation?

In my state, there is the criminal database, and the CPS database--they are not the same and someone can be in one and not the other. I ran background checks on the CPS system for a while (crummiest job ever), and I don't know about your state and/or criminal databases, but at 20 years your husband's issue would've been seen by me, his form sent to my supervisor, and then sent back to me with a note that it was beyond the time limit and was not to be sent to the requesting entity (school, daycare, what-have-you).

13 Marlin .22-caliber single-shot' date=' bolt-action competition rifles; four Weatherby 12-gauge pump shotguns; one Remington 12-gauge pump shotgun; and three Remington 20-gauge pump shotguns [b']worth a total of $14,400.[/b] ( hmmm, must have some serious gold inlay? - RS)

 

The burglary happened sometime between 1 p.m. on Monday, Dec. 15 and 2:30 p.m. on Wednesday, Dec. 17 2014.[/i]

 

Well when Mrs. RS asks me why I'm online with gunbroker again, I'll explain I'm looking for these stolen firearms.

Uhhhh, yeah, pricing at Bass Pro is $2,210 for the .22s, $1,440 for the Weatherbys, $330 fr the Remington 12, and $1,050 for the Remington 20s.

The leadership switching that was agreed to include:: the SM was made CC and his son is the 1st one up to age out in 2 months. They are also one of the ambivalent ones. . This switch was approved by the CO.

Wow, whoever came up with that really screwed you.

If they're not giving you the impression that they've had any kind of change of heart (they're not coming around and their parents are snots) then what's to worry about? Don't even give them one, and don't let anyone sign off their Scout Spirit requirement. Eagle is in one sense just one more rank, in another it is the award that signifies a Scout has achieved BSA's aims--these boys haven't, it's part of the requirements, don't sign them off.

When the council pulls rank and gives them Eagle anyway, tell the rest of the troop exactly what you think about it, calmly, and inform everyone that you won't have anything to do with the CoH and nor should they.

If you have time to work with the one whose parents seem to get it, then focus on him.

Truck in real food and pay more than 5 cents an hour. Private restroom with locks that work built by someone other than 13-yr-old arrowmen who don't know what a square or level are or how to use them.

I was planning a ceremony last year and discussing my progress with the committee. I told them I planned to invite the Reverend to give the invocation, and a Jewish CM/dad interrupts and emphatically says "a non-sectarian prayer."

Right, I'm going to tell a minister how they cannot pray in their own church.

Pretty much done. Over a decade with this unit, pretty much running it, new SM chosen that the boys hate, parents can't stand, and volunteers won't work with. His idea of Scouting is the Mickey Mouse Club and I'm not fighting him. Been a year and the troop is pretty much dead, I go out and back between despair and (I hate to admit) told-ya-so satisfaction. I hate it for the boys, but the adults have exactly what I predicted the night they told me, and good for them.

I've found a new joy in saying no and having a life outside Scouting, and you guys don't have to suffer all my vitriol anymore.