blw2

and I'll bet most DE's struggle seeing that too. When I think about it, it must be tough doing a job that you yourself clearly see as devalued, while getting all sorts of negative pressure from your boss. From my perspective, about the only direct and clear benefit from some of our DE's have been an occasional hand off of paperwork..... such as meeting the DE at say a University of Scouting to hand off the recharter papers, and thereby saving me a drive into the office.... I believed of course there's more.... it's just hard to see.

again, we just don't have One Program

here's the post I mentioned http://scouter.com/index.php/topic/27719-colonial-va-council-troubles/?p=427703

This thread dredges up some old boyhood memories for me... when I first joined a troop, I was a bit older (we had moved while I was in WEBELOS, and I didn't go back to scouts for a couple years) I found it very awkward to be working through these requirements show this, explain that, demonstrate how to.... I would have been fumbling my way through the motions, along with a peer of the same age, someone I knew form school that would have been in scouts for a while and therefore ranked up higher.... The whole peer as a coach/teacher/boss/mentor thing was just very awkward. I suspect this is now different for boys today in a NSP.

in another thread, @scoutpro66 (maybe I have their tag name wrong) posted a detailed description just yesterday of the job, season by season. Basically, they are run ragged vacation is frowned upon they are expected to do stuff that they know does not much good or that they know is not wanted or needed (such as FOS & spring recruiting for Cubs) no time for family, lots of divorce

now that you mention it, YMCA is a great example of that.... well I don't know if it's formally just YMCA or not, but since it's really just family oriented I'd guess maybe so

Not specific to outdoor training but it was suggested over at scoutmastercg to look at the training program in Ireland. They apparently have a much more thorough training period for leaders In theory it sounds similar to us.... but in practice liley a lot better.... some basic intro stuff to gain a provisional leader status so you can get started with the unit.... to be followed by more advanced training and mentorship I think we fail with the training content, but where we really fall flat on our face is the mentoring. Oh, I understand that some units likely have good mentorships form one leader to the next and some have functioning Unit.... oh, now I can't remember the title.... I'll go with Unit Mentors for now... I just feel like it's all to open and variable... huge variations form one unit or area to the next. Lots of doing this way because that's the way we've always done it....often times even though it's wrong in some way or another....

I'm 4 years in and we're on our 5th DE, + the position was vacant for long periods of time between a couple of those.....

thank you @@ProScouter06 for taking the time to type that up. It's pretty much what I have imagined after almost 5 years of volunteering.... I assume it's from the perspective of DE or maybe one step or so above that. Regardless..... what I see in every step through the year are a bunch of non-helpful goals, pressures, and requirements from the professional side.... the majority of those pressures really don't seem to do much to make a better program for the boy.... except maybe one could argue the fundraising push to get money to pay for the council camps and programs..... but nobody on our end want to hear another FOS pitch. We're already giving our money and even more valuable time, in support of the BSA. These pressures or job descriptions, from my perspective anyway, are so very misguided from where they should be. It's clear to me (my assumptions) that someone up high somewhere in professional scouter land and a series of very long meetings to make some of those directions....

OK, a side question How would the organization's name be handled? BOY Scouts of America just doesn't work for this......

@@Hedgehog, I have the REI Quarter Dome now, I think it's the "1". Similar to those that you linked to I think.... except maybe taht tarptent doesn't have a separate fly.... can't tell about those types of tarptents from the picture.... @@SWScouter, is that tarptent made with a separate rain fly or is the netting integral to it? Hard to tell from quick look at the pictures. Thanks for the tip on that rayway site. I have not seen that one before. I'm liking the idea of something like that net tent set-up. I'd like to camp just under the tarp as @@SSScout describes, or a poncho like stosh, but I never know about about ticks and bugs and snakes so I'd like to eventually get myself something in between the quarter dome that I have now and these more basic tarps.... like these suggestions maybe... This is all for future reference down the road for me anyway.... thanks all for the tips so far.

I had a couple really great talks with our council's Director of Field Service last year while our sons were working on their round robin activities at a council campout. I think it was the WEBELOS AKELA weekend.... I'd say he was genuinely a nice guy and trying to right by his WEBELOS aged son..... He struck me as as an old average "dad the business man" that's involved in scouting. I have no idea how good he does his job. As unit level scouter, I feel very out of touch to what those folks are doing.... One thing I noted was his surprise at some of my opinions about the program... nothing earth shattering, and I can't remember for sure what it was... Regardless, my point is that he was a nice guy but by no means was he any sort of super scouter. I enjoyed getting to know him a little bit. Another comment about the previous posts regarding professional scouters and the disconnect. I have had the opinion that many of them are misguided. As Proscouter06 pointed out, their jobs aren't to go camping. I would argue that it might be a better program if their jobs were refocused as to get into the trenches a bit more. I would like to see the low level pros more involved in things like facilitating training. Instead of relying on volunteers (who have other non-related jobs and no time to do it right) to do all of the coordinating, arranging for rooms and supplies, setting agendas, and the rest of it involved with putting on say a BALOO course.... I say let the pros do it. Sure, let the experienced volunteers be the brains behind content and even be the presenters, but give those volunteers with so little time available support by facilitating these things. I'd guess we could end up with more consistency and maybe a better program..... ONe Program Now all that being said, I don't disagree with DavidCO The structure of the organization, the complex and sometimes unrealistic or out of touch rules, and the rest of it... all do a disservice to the program and do get in the way. There is just too much business, and I'd guess too many meetings and committees going on up at national. My personal opinion is a downsize to a more limited and refocused professional organization could do wonders.... Oh, and we need a Bear Grylls type at the head of it all to get a weekly TV show where he's routinely doing really cool and exciting stuff.... rappelling, caving, making survival shelters, and the like... all while wearing the Scout uniform. Someone for boys to latch onto as a hero of sorts.... "Wow, I want to be like him!"

@@Eagle94-A1, and what about the visiting WEBELOS?

for the years I did recharter, my biggest aid was just having my ducks in a row. when a new scout or leader registered in the fall, I did not wait until recharter to enter them. This is how my predecessors/successors operate, and it gets messy. Lost applications and all. I kept a spreadsheet roster of the unit and asked the den leaders in December to update any drops since everything would now be up to date except for any drops, everything was neat and easy. I tried not to wait till the last minute but I surely didn't do it 4 months early! Early January was fine.

a practice my pack started before my time.... adults don't pay registration or training.... but I find that when anyone pays for training, or the CO required fingerprinting, etc.... that they usually just "donate" the cost by not submitting the expense. so my registrations have always been paid by the unit. I think this is good practice unless the unit is financially struggling.

I had that exact thought too. asking myself questions along the lines of how much over thinking I'm doing.... after all, The vast majority of scout candidates are going to be parents that are not at all knowledgeable or even involved and like a very large fraction of the cub scouters wouldn't know either.... they being barely trained for their cub roles let alone anything to do with the troop. I just figured it's better to "Be prepared" (hmmm where have I heard that before???) and to make the most of the limited time we'll have.... considering they will likely try to drive us to do other things.... such as an adult meeting aside from the boys....

reviving an old thread here.... After much thought on the suggestions here, as well as in other threads and elsewhere..... I put this all aside to digest a bit. I had pretty much settled on the idea that the boys, left to their own devices, will follow friends and/or go to the troop that is the most fun &/or welcoming They don't understand the ramifications of all of this, boy led, patrol, who does what mumbo jumbo. So I've almost settled on a free and open approach to it all and see what happens. But recently I received an invitation for our den to attend a fall festival thing a troop is putting on as a recruiting fair effort. this wasn't a troop under consideration based on geography, but it is maybe doable I would likely go regardless except my son and I have a schedule conflict.... But I got to thinking that this approach from a troop.... or ringer meeting as someone wrote here... is really a misdirect and in a way not good. The boys might be enamored by it but nobody will likely get a real truthful feel for the troop.... the boys or us parents either. although it would I suppose be better than showing up on some random election night or other odd ball troop meeting. I've also been thinking of the concept that I've seen many folks write about.... splitting the parents into one room and the boys in another with the scouts. I think it was on a scoutmastercg podcast, It was suggested that we try to get an chance for open discussion with a few of the scouts.... and ask them questions.... I'm thinking this makes sense. the WEBELOS get to ask questions and we adults get to hear them. They also get to hear the questions we adults ask that might prompt them to think of follow-ups. And it gives us adults a better chance of finding out who really runs the show and such.... rather than our hearing the filtered answer that the troop adults want us to hear. I think in a perfect world we could do this Q&A after being a fly on the will in a troop meeting. and then after the Q&A, the WEBELOS could be allowed to hang with the scouts for their game time or whatever.... So, since one of the troops in question hasn't replied back to me, I think I'll plan on showing up to a meeting (I know the night and time they meet) and introduce ourselves and tell them what we want to do.....

ah, but monthly plop camping doesn't really cover backpacking

probably dodge ball... which by the way has I think been among the most fun our boys have had in all of scouts so far....

I like your idea. You could call it WoodBadge...... oh wait, that name is already taken..... oh well I have faith you'll come up with something!

Some time ago in a different thread I asked if anyone had taken a troop or patrol to one of the survival schools or guide services. This is sort of like your guide service idea a bit, except I'd rather steer the boys to go to a real one rather than a council camp..... if they were interested in that sort of thing like a Bear Grylls or Matt Graham from TV....type thing.... I just picture the BSA camp experiences so far in cubs.... There is a lot of showing.... a lot of talking... and very little doing going on. Here's a flint, this is how you use it, here's several ways of how to stack wood..... for 30 minutes or more.... class is over, hope you enjoyed it boys! ....and in the end the boy thinks where's the fire? we never started a fire!?! like standing in line for up to a hour or so sitting through two or more various briefings by rangemaster..... an hour or more.... just to get a chance to shoot 5 arrows or maybe 4 minutes worth of very controlled and slow BB shooting.... maybe 20 shots if he's lucky. I can't imagine a HA effort at a BSA camp being much different. I think sometimes more can be too many. with a 2:1 ratio and major injury! The adults were standing around jaw boning with each other thinking someone else was watching, no doubt.

yep, that has been on my want to try list for a while..... ever since seeing a hennessy hammock a few years back.

I just finished reading The Ultimate Hiker’s Gear Guide: Tools & Techniques to Hit the Trail, by Andrew Skurka He made some good points against these bivies... the ones I remember most are that they tend to be stuffier and the bugs can often bite threw them when you roll up against the mesh He was more in favor of the nests.... which tend to look more like a a frame pup tent only out of mesh. I've been looking at those Zpacks also this one http://www.tarptent.com/protrail.html looks interesting to me. Looks like maybe more of a single wall tent than a tarp wit its integral bug nest.... but I'm thinking it might be to my liking.... I do like the idea of the multi-purpose nature of something like that.... maybe when it's cold enough for no bugs some day....

I too tried to implement it.... but didn't go so far as to buy the materials..... I just suggested. I think it's a good idea..... but like @@gumbymaster, most of the leaders don't get it or buy into the idea. I did buy one of those store bought ones for My son's den leader. he had already bought a US flag on short 6ft staff. I bought a matching staff for the den flag, and I threw together some flag stands with some scrap lumber. We ended up opening and closing almost every Bear meeting with the full flag march ceremony..... I think that ended up being great practice for the boys and wish that we would have continued taking it even more seriously. But on the Den Spirit end, that never took off. In some ways, i like some of the spirit stick or totem ideas better than a den flag. A way to show the progress of each boy along the advancement trail. It might be something that might motivate them.... to catch up and so on.... I would have loved to see each den have their flag or a spirit stick of some kind at their tables for every pack meeting.... along with a den yell verifying that the den is present! Sadly, I think most folks think it's nerdy or something and I even get the sense from the boys that it's not cool. But I suspect if it was successfully implemented it would join the den into a tighter group

My dentist has Boys Life, as does my son's orthodontist.