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Everything posted by TAHAWK

  1. "Are you involved in an official rewrite, or just gathering ideas for a proposal to National or a unit program?" shortridge, this is not a project of the Scouting Division. I will forward comments to the unknown person(s)at the address in the MBP. The requirements can only be changed by B.S.A., but the text of the MBP is to assist the candidate, as can any other material, according to its accuracy and quality. The "official" versions of the MBP and the requirements were apparently written by a committee. Either that committee did not reach a consensus or the MBP failed to reflect s
  2. Another award is an interesting topic. Lifeguard. Emergency Servies Explorer. But that atill leaves the MB and whatever might be done to improve it. Some will suggest big changes and some only tinkering. I have a number of problems with the current requirements/book (I mean oak?" OAK!!) -- even taking it as a Golden 72 Hour badge vs. what Olsen created, but I want -- I think I need --to get input from other Scouters.
  3. This merit badge started out requiring mastery of primarily a primitive living skillset, with a pamphlet written by Larry Dean Olsen. Over the years, the requirements and the contents of the pamphlet have moved to what is sometimes called "modern survival" - staying alive for a few days until found by SAR personnel. Assume for purposes of discussion that you are rewriting the Wilderness Survival MB pamphlet. How would you change the pamphlet and the requirements? (This message has been edited by TAHAWK)
  4. I collect Scout edged tools. Until the last 18 months or so, they were all made in the USA with the exception of the "Swiss Army" models from Victorinox and Wenger. No more. When I was in our Scout Shop recently, I noted that the standard Boy Scout utility pattern knife they carried - THE "Boy Scout Knife" - was made in China. I wonder if this would have happened if Camillus had not gone under last year. Happily, the Cub knife was made by Colonial in the U.S.A. -- and the best Cub knife I have ever seen. There was also a Bear and Son lock-back that was significantly more cost
  5. Gee Brian, I was not arguing with the Surpeme Court, I was quoting the Supreme Court. It is useful to read what they actually wrote instead of what the ACLU wishes they had written. The "militia" was NOT the National Guard. It was everyone, as the Supreme Court expressly noted in upholding a ban on sawed-off shotguns. More from the Supreme Court to follow as the issue is squarely before them on an appeal from decisions below outlawing the DC ban: "That would be an odd right of the people if limited to militias, commented Chief Justice John Roberts in the Supreme Court hearing Marc
  6. "The signification attributed to the term Militia appears from the debates in the Convention, the history and legislation of Colonies and States, and the writings of approved commentators. These show plainly enough that the Militia comprised all males physically capable of acting in concert for the common defense. 'A body of citizens enrolled for military discipline.' And further, that ordinarily when called for service these men were expected to appear bearing arms supplied by themselves and of the kind in common use at the time." Note: "All males physically capable of acting in concert.
  7. "The BSA might be the largest youth tolerance school in the world." Brian replies: "And I might be Marie of Rumania." When I was a Scout, we were picketed by the John Birch Society every Scout Week because we were supposedly Comsimps or dupes of the Commies. Why? Their signs said noted that Boy Scouts had racially integrated Troops (gasp!), raised money for UNICEF (?!?!?!), and had a World Brotherhood Merit Badge (LOL). My Troop had boys of many religions, including Buddhists as I have pointed out. We were "white," brown, "black," and "yellow." One of them was the son the the h
  8. David, I like where you end up; truly I do. But the legal argument that you present is based on a false premise. The First Amendment bars action by the federal governement, not private parties. Out of their experiences with the Church of England, the Authors were concerned about the establishment of official religions by the government. Later amendment extended Constitutional protection of inalienable rights to actions by state governments. In fact, the Freedom of/from Association guaranteed by the Constitution bars the federal government, with specific exceptions (such as "public acc
  9. The aluminum scare proved to be like the Alar scare - all rumor and no science. The orginal science on BPA leeching out of type 7 polycarbonate was done in Cleveland at Case Western Reserve U. Research showed that BPA, a mutigenic chemical, leeched out when the polycarb was subjected to very hot water and strong detergent. Animals kept in polycarb cages cleaned with very hot water and strong detergents showed highyl elevated levels of serious birth defects in their offspring. Those results, duplicated many times, suggested that hand washing at least sharply reduced the risks. Over the
  10. Our Council decided that all LEAD unit Scouters (e.g. SM's) had to be "fully trained" or no recharter. When achieving this proved a problem, part of the response was a nine-hour IOLS course authorized by the SE (which, per "Scouting" [magazine], Scouting Division has not authorized). There has been no suggestion in our Council that training has to fall within any particular date to count for the "fully trained" rule. As to Wood Badgers who took the old course taking the new course, in our recent course we were expected not to wear our beads (Makes sense to me.), but they go back on
  11. Dan, Maybe you went deeper into Google than I did ("wiccan OR wiccans scout OR scouts OR bsa") or have knowledge otherwise, but while I found several references to wiccans being denied unit charters, not one reference had a who, what, when, or where -- much less a why. Perhaps you can share details if you know or have access to them. As I recall the 25 unit rule, it was announced in the early 90's. There WAS talk at the time of Wiccans being involved, but also one-church protestant denominations. IIRC the Crystal Cathedral was involved (two blocks from where I grew up), and at leas
  12. Brian, You assert that certain things are true, or will be true - things contrary to quoted, very express BSA policy on the subject of what "Duty to God" and "reverent" require. Then you say I - someone - anyone - needs to DISPROVE your unproven assertions as to policy, practice and future events. I don't think I have to disprove your assertions, even if I could prove the negative. I think I have the right to rely on the statement of BSA that only acknowledement of a "higher power is required and the statement in Lambert's case that even an aknowledgement of soemething as amo
  13. This has been a great journey into true non-denominationalism. Boy do we need to work on our religious observances -- to check really carefully before we open mouths or even schedule all such for Sundays (And I don't just reference Seventh Day Adventists.) Brian posts: "The only thing I'm saying is that official BSA policy at national is to kick out atheists. If you're a Buddhist and an atheist, BSA national will kick you out for being an atheist. If you're Jewish and an atheist, they'll kick you out for being an atheist." Since you have the burden of proof on the affirmative o
  14. Brian, I already addressed that issue. While I don't think BSA gets off blaimless for the site the lawyers maintain "on behalf" of Scouting, I continue to believe that the BSA's site and the BSA's conduct trump what the lawyers say on their site -- to the extent that you read "atheist" to mean non-theistic religions like Buddhism. I find that, often, "atheist" is, inaccurately, taken to mean void of all religious belief, not that a lawyer weould ever use the wrong word. Never that! But, Brian, you continue to refuse to discuss what the BSA says on tis site. You also continue to re
  15. Excuse me? I quoted the language from the BSA's website that shows that Buddhist Scouts are part of Boy Scouting and describes their beliefs. No mention of God or any deity by any other name there. Are you know arguing that BSA doesn't know what's on its own website?
  16. Brian, I can't hope to answer your first question. If someone testifies under oath to a fact and that witness knows the testimony to be false, they have commtted perjury. I don't know what these witnesses knew or believed to be true or what THEY meant by "atheists." But if the issue is whether "atheists" as I understand that word literally --those who no not believe in a theistic diety -- are admitted to Scouting, the answer is that they have been for 88 years -- and still are. As to your second, rhetorical question, obviously there are religious or spiritual requirements t
  17. Brian posts: "Tahawk, their websites and official spokesman have been saying for years that atheists can't be members; are you saying the BSA is wrong about its own policies?" Brian, I am saying that, for me, the BSA site's language and the BSA's conduct since 1920 control over the statements on the lawyer's site "on behalf of" the BSA. If you don't agree, that's your decision, but I think I have the better argument. You might directly discuss what BSA says and the implication of 88 years of Buddhist Scouting. Brian posts: "Also, Victor Iwamura, the chair of the National
  18. So, Brian, you are down to, "They must not know Buddhists are not theists or they wouldn't allow Buddhist units, Buddist Scouts, Buddhist Scouters, and Buddhist religious awards. From BSA's site: "Scouting in the Buddhist Community Overview Scouting serves an important role in youth development in the Buddhist community. Cub Scout packs, Boy Scout troops, Varsity Scout teams, and Venturing crews chartered to Buddhist organizations can be found throughout the United States. Scouts can participate within units chartered to Buddhist organizations or as members of units chartered
  19. Brian, I'm am not sorry to accurately report the directions for Boards of Review from Scouting.Org, especially given their application to the Lambert case. I know how the words "reverent" and "duty to God" have actually been applied in three different councils over decades. I know Buddhists have been Scouts at least from 1954 forward. I know other non-theists are accepted as members. I know the religious awards of non-theists are recognized by the BSA. It suits your argument to cite the words that you cite, to ignore others, and to ignore the facts on the ground -
  20. Mr. LeRoy writes: Here's what the official BSA legal website says: http://www.bsalegal.org/faqs-195.asp 'Q. Can an individual who states that he does not believe in God be a volunteer Scout leader or member? A. No. The Scout Oath represents the basic values of Scouting, and it addresses the issue of duty to God before duty to country, others, and self.' . . . BSA reps have stated under oath in court that atheists cannot be members. I think the BSA doesn't realize that Buddhists, Jainists, Hindus, Jews, etc. can also be atheists." Mr. LeRoy, we had Buddhist
  21. "tahawk, Merlyn is correct: BSA official have stated repeatedly that theism *IS* a requirement for membership. Except, of course, for Buddhists, whom BSA evidently doesn't think are really atheists. Maybe BSA thinks there are "good" atheists and "bad" atheists?" But there is no such requirement in fact. I think Scouting still struggles with defining "reverent" and "duty to God" without offending some within Scouting. Some feel their particular religious view is correct to the exclusion of all others. They explicitly or implicitly weave their view into speaking about "reverent."
  22. "my posts in this forum are not how I oppose illegal acts by the BSA; I worked with the ACLU to end charters to discriminatory BSA units by government entities, but as the Maryland DNR Venture Crew shows, the BSA hasn't quite lived up to their promise to recharter all such units. BSA officials have stated a number of times that theism is a requirement for membership. My remark about whether the BSA allows polytheists to be members was in response to John-In-KC, pointing out that the DRP could easily be interpreted to exclude polytheists, and the BSA can decide to interpret any of their r
  23. Mr. LeRoy, perhaps you explain to a relative newcomer how your posts in this thread are part of an effort to prevent violation of the law by the BSA. Is this an effort, for example, to reach decision-makers at the BSA and to convince them to different behavior from that which you attribute to them? My belief is that the BSA does not require theism, much less monotheism. If it did, BSA would not charter Buddhist units nor recognize a Buddhist religious award.
  24. The original question asked about the "troop" and insurance coverage. In almost all cases, a troop is not an entity - a person at law. Thus, it cannot typically be sued or held liable for any wrongdoing. The CO is typically an entity and Scout leaders are persons. As such they may be sued and held liable. Why is "insurance" helpful? For two features. 1. Payment of costs of defense (attorney fees, court costs, and other costs of defense). 2. Payment of any judgment against the defendant ("indemnity"). (The first is important even if the defendant is not legally at fault - "
  25. Is it not true that the BSA has had to spend extra time on the "Clean" point as well? I think Beavah nailed it. Get massively attacked on one of your values and you spend time explaining (NOT explaining away)and defending that value. (And reincarnation is very much a Buddhist "thing" as well.)
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