TAHAWK

"Ethics and moral behavior really can't be legislated." Behavior can be legislated, and the laws can be successfully enforced. As only one example, the concept of murder was introduced to formerly Saxon England by William I. He responded to the belief that this was all nonsense, and resulting behavior, with the rope and axe. After a time, it sunk in that killing another without lawful excuse was a wrong against the government (The People of xx vs. ), not merely a personal matter between families and their supporters. Those who "murder" now are outliers.

Wow! Serious case of WIII. Hillcourt in his 1930 Service Library pamphlet "The Patrol Method" anticipated that there could be bumps in the road. Of course, he is writing of boys with nothing to "unlearn" about an adult-led unit.(This message has been edited by TAHAWK)

And when is to "safe" to allow Scouts to elect their leaders and let them lead?

"All Scouting is local." Require Life-Saving for Eagle, do you?

Definitely NOT "going on strong." I know the numbers here and nationally, and they are grim. My Council has about the same number of Scouts is had in 1912 when Scouting was just getting started. Happily, we have more Cubs, ho didn't exist in 1912, than we have Scouts and a chance to get those Cubs crossed-over in due course. The first step in dealing with a problem is admitting there is a problem. There is a problem. Scouting is not as popular with its "customers" as it once was, and Scouting's "sales force" (adults) is woefully understrength. However, having admitted there is

In the location where I Scouted as a kid, BSA arrived in 1916. As I told Old Dan, "This will never fly." ^___^

In the Golden Age of Scouting," West wanted to make all SM's paid employee's of the BSA so he could control them better. Boys went to Summer Camp by being divided up into Cabin Crews under a staff member. The "good old days" are definitely old. Good? Even polio aside, not entirely? But you can make a difference in the here and now. The first Scout Troops in the U.S. were started in 1908. Yup, two years before BSA existed. When BSA got to my area 1912, there were 99 Troops already. When BSA got to where I Scouted as a kid in 1916, there were already 123 Troops in the

Maybe what you experience is just fine. Don't get "down" over bad news elsewhere or elsewhen.

In a wilderness survival situation, even one caused by being lost, there is simply no way to eliminate the need for judgment with sets of "rules." Situation alter cases. As a SAR volunteer years ago, we certainly did not want to chase lost people. But a situation may call for self-rescue (Survival situation on first day of 10-day trek. No one to "miss" you for 10-11 days.) BSA used to discuss self-rescue from being lost or "going for help. (How many stayed with an injured person and how many went for help? Finding your way back to where you were not lost. Wilderness navigation

B.S.A. 2011: "Boy Scouting has relied heavily on an outdoor program to achieve its objectives. This program meets more of the purposes of Scouting than any other single feature."

Is the unit benefiting youth? Are they learning self-reliance, good citizenship, and the value of fitness? Are youth given the chance to really lead? If so, improve from there. On the unit level all the issues you mentioned can be overcome. National does not, for example, keep a Troop from camping every month of the year or from Patrol camping. If 300 feet is the be-all and end-all, do it. Shop around. Not all Troops are the same. Example: I posted my ire about the "super" summer camp (among many others) that handed out Scoutcraft MB's with no individual testing and, so, no

Interesting. "trust" "trustworthy" 1. Does he do what he says he will do? (Within reason. Being hit by a car is an excuse. ) 1b. If he can't keep a commitment, does he give reasonable notice? 1c. Does he work to overcome barriers to keeping commitments? 2. Does he tell the truth? ("Truth" is a matter of honesty. Everyone can get facts wrong.) 3. Given a choice, will he likely do the "right thing" (Subjective standard, but so what? We all think some positions are beyond reasonable dispute. "Choice," unlawful acts aside, means he has the power within Sco

"Adult babysitter" "Adult Entertainment Coordinator" might go down better, and oh boy is one needed in our troop.

There was a considerable volunteer effort to promote attendance at Tinnerman, including fund-raising to supplement pay for Guides. Didn't work. Money was raised and spent, but attendance kept falling. Then Ontario revoked the permit to operate the base because Council had not built the $200,000 septic system (for dish and shower water) required by law. (Ontario had given Council a series of one-year temporary waivers.) The small number of crews signed up for 2011 were sent to Boundary Waters. Then the question was what do do given that there was no $$$ to build the septic system a

As a "Coach Counselor" (and "Patrol Dad"), I was given explicit and detailed guidance on Ticket-writing. As a "Troop Guide" I was given very vague instructions. I could not even get a clear answer as to whether specific goals were to serve the more abstract goals (I thought they should. I thought it was implicit.) I did the best I could. I have no idea whether this problem was specific to that Course. As in all human activities, persons in authority who are less than ideal to not enhance the experience. Sometimes, competency seems to be far down the list of priorities in selecting s

"An approved climbing helmet must be worn during all BSA climbing/rappelling activities when the participant's feet are more than shoulder height above ground level. When using a commercial climbing gym, the climbing facility's procedures apply." This is cited as the basis for a restriction on the height that Scouts can climb pioneering structures without a helmet. But I keep getting told that safety harness must be worn and can find no basis for that "rule."

Parents often "know" their children feel a certain way despite the kids not realizing -- ever -- that they have those feelings. Ask the Scout in a manner most likely to get an honest answer.

So we are to ignore the evidence that totally refutes your argument? Gee, Rick, what if we elect to look at the facts? As for "what Wood Badge has done to the Patrol Method," whatever we might think of the third version of Wood Badge, it models the Patrol Method, including PLC, patrol meetings, patrol hikes, patrol spirit, and patrol camping in separate patrol sites. Just reality.

Your talking about a syllabus that starts talking about advancement in the middle of another topic and lists the boy-led troop as a source of information about outdoor skills. They mean well.

Yes, Rick, and Christ did not mention God in every sentence. The Patrol Method permeates the Scoutmaster Specific syllabus. You might also consider how the planned patrol cooking at the Summit, which you have pointed out, fits your claim that BSA has abandoned The Patrol Method.

You force me to defend a pretty weak syllabus, but the defects of that sometimes poorly-written and often poorly-organized document do not include "removed the Patrol Leader and any description of a working Patrol from the 'Patrol Method' presentation of Scoutmaster Specific Training,and replaced them with EDGE" or "Adult Association." At a bare minimum, if EDGE replaced The Patrol Method: 1) a description of The Patrol method would have been there before; 2) EDGE would be there now; and 3) EDGE would be there to the exclusion of material on The Patrol Method. Clearly, a descriptio

"In a nutshell, that is why Leadership Development is such a destructive force in Scouting: Wood Badge Logic. Bottom line is that leadership skills "experts" removed the Patrol Leader and any description of a working Patrol from the "Patrol Method" presentation of Scoutmaster Specific Training, and replaced them with EDGE. Yours at 300 fee" Based strictly on the actual documents, your statement is simply incorrect as a matter of fact. "Logic" plays no part in it.

"It's only fair: Game of Life experts replaced the Patrol Leader and any description of a working Patrol with EDGE theory in the "Patrol Method" presentation of Scoutmaster-Specific Training." No, "teaching EDGE" did not replace the Patrol Leader or the description of a working patrol in that training, inclusive of the materials incorporated by reference. And the notion that application is to follow teaching is as old as my Scouting experience, so back to 1954. As for "leading EDGE," that to is simply a reformulation of the idea that the objective is boy leadership and getting the a

No, you missed having a competent staff.

"Potential" my eye. The debt is there. The date due is known. It is more reasonable to estimate how long how many will live in the future than to estimate global warming in the future based on the 18,000 years of actual and estimated data. So take the low estimate. That's still $20 trillion and growing -- money we don't have and will need if the G is to meets its obligations under current law. Things may change. It could get worse. There is no rational basis to assume it will get better without killing off millions, abrogating the obligations ("Those SS benefits? We were j